The "hobbyist" segment of our movement will always
find the "work-a-rounds" to any BS restraints governments
try to impose on us.
vaping AND "Rock-N-Roll" ... Will NEVER Die !!
FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
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find the "work-a-rounds" to any BS restraints governments
try to impose on us.
vaping AND "Rock-N-Roll" ... Will NEVER Die !!
I understand where Willie is coming from. Many of us, myself included, are on this vaping "high" because we have found a way to rid ourselves of analog cigs and all the ill effects that come along with them. But the fact of the matter remains that no one has any idea of the LONG term effects of vaping. We all want to say that vaping is a "healthier" alternative to smoking because we no longer feel the unhealthy effects of analogs. But sometimes it's what we don't know that may be harmful to us. And let's face it, we don't know what will happen after 10 or 20 years of vaping. As far as regulating electronic nicotine delivery devices, well, let me just say that I'm not going to buy a car from a guy who built one in his garage just because he said his homemade engine gets 50 MPG. I use this forum to gather facts about the products I am interested in. Am I for regulation? If it weeds out the scammers and the fly-by-nights well then yes, I'm for it. Am I for regulation because the government says so without proper investigation and facts? NO, I am not.
Lumping e-cigs together with analogs is illogical. If some x's are z's and some y's are z's, then all x's are y's. See my point? It's flawed logic.
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RIGHT ON! Petrodus and Agorizer everyone, let's vape on!
MaDeuce, you said,
But we do know that continued cigarette smoking for 10 or 20 years will do to many of us! Judging from how much better most of us are feeling after starting to vape -- and some of us have been vaping for five years or more now -- and how much better objective medical tests many of us are getting, it seems like the risks from vaping are possibly a couple of orders of magnitude less than the risks from continuing to smoke cigarettes are. I, and most folks here, will happily take our chances with vaping. You want to be utterly safe? Quit any form of nicotine ingestion.
There reaches a point when regulation, especially as practiced in the United States with our colluding crony capitalism between the car companies, the insurance companies and the regulators reaches a point of absurdly diminishing returns. Granted, cars are safer these days than they were 30 years ago, and cars of 30 years ago were safer than those of 50 years ago, no doubt. But, in the last 30 years, each incremental life saved on the highway has cost us collectively about $75,000,000 in increased vehicle price (to buy all that added safety equipment), insurance costs (today's cars are vastly more expensive to repair than their older counterparts), and increased reliance on foreign energy to haul around the bloated and ponderous battering-rams we all drive now. Maybe the $75,000,000 price tag is worth it to you. But consider this: the average award in wrongful death lawsuits is about one-tenth that -- and that's about the best quantification of accidental death we have.
And how, exactly, is FDA regulation going to do that? Look at all the bad drugs they approve -- and look at how many promising ones they turn thumbs down on. What about, for instance, poultry testing? All they're able to do by law is make sure supermarket chicken doesn't have poop on it; it's Perdue and the big chicken factories that actually test -- on their own -- for various bacterial contaminants, etc. We've had bad vendors in the vaping world, sure. But we've taken care of them quickly, by publicizing their malfeasances here and elsewhere on the internet. All of them are out of business now, or their sales have drastically shrunk after they straightened up and flew right. We did this -- without the beneficence of the federal government's regulating the vaping industry.
Your faith in government regulation keeping you safe from all harm is touching -- but sadly misplaced.
But we do know that continued cigarette smoking for 10 or 20 years will do to many of us! Judging from how much better most of us are feeling after starting to vape -- and some of us have been vaping for five years or more now -- and how much better objective medical tests many of us are getting, it seems like the risks from vaping are possibly a couple of orders of magnitude less than the risks from continuing to smoke cigarettes are. I, and most folks here, will happily take our chances with vaping. You want to be utterly safe? Quit any form of nicotine ingestion.
There reaches a point when regulation, especially as practiced in the United States with our colluding crony capitalism between the car companies, the insurance companies and the regulators reaches a point of absurdly diminishing returns. Granted, cars are safer these days than they were 30 years ago, and cars of 30 years ago were safer than those of 50 years ago, no doubt. But, in the last 30 years, each incremental life saved on the highway has cost us collectively about $75,000,000 in increased vehicle price (to buy all that added safety equipment), insurance costs (today's cars are vastly more expensive to repair than their older counterparts), and increased reliance on foreign energy to haul around the bloated and ponderous battering-rams we all drive now. Maybe the $75,000,000 price tag is worth it to you. But consider this: the average award in wrongful death lawsuits is about one-tenth that -- and that's about the best quantification of accidental death we have.
And how, exactly, is FDA regulation going to do that? Look at all the bad drugs they approve -- and look at how many promising ones they turn thumbs down on. What about, for instance, poultry testing? All they're able to do by law is make sure supermarket chicken doesn't have poop on it; it's Perdue and the big chicken factories that actually test -- on their own -- for various bacterial contaminants, etc. We've had bad vendors in the vaping world, sure. But we've taken care of them quickly, by publicizing their malfeasances here and elsewhere on the internet. All of them are out of business now, or their sales have drastically shrunk after they straightened up and flew right. We did this -- without the beneficence of the federal government's regulating the vaping industry.
Your faith in government regulation keeping you safe from all harm is touching -- but sadly misplaced.
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I am just tired of the charade that everyone puts on. I would rather hear fram the FDA ..... well what do you want us to do. We get paid billions in user fees from BP. And you already know the story with BT. We gotta get rid of these devices!!! Our politions make too much from BT.....Tell the truth. All of this political correctness. Not to mention, all who are opposed to e-cigs in my opinion are running out of excusses.
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Vaping across the USA you should see some of the looks I get using my e-Vic. LOL Then I start talking to myself, make the driving seem like less monotonous. I have an idea, if big pharma, can get patents, for drugs such as ......, and when the patent expires, they re-issue it as "niagra" well, when the FDA deems "e-cigarettes", let's start selling and using "steam puffs"! Then they'll have to waste more American people's tax dollars to start their evil ANTZ campaign all over again from the start. Thank you Shakespeare "what's in a name.... a cigarette stinks no matter what you call it, but vaping is good no matter what a rose by any other name would still smell and taste as sweeeeet!"
Ours come from the leaf plus a certain percentage of other parts.
Nicotine extraction is very complex. Your batches will fail 4 out of 5 times even with a trained chemist when starting out. We still have issues.
Our subcontracted law firm represents Blue Cig and 8 other major e-cig companies in North Carolina. His firm is much more optimistic than Bill's opinion. Last time I stated this I got flamed by Bill that our attorneys were wrong. We will see who is right. Just remember this is still the United States of America and there are such things called injunctions filed in US Federal District Court that could stay any FDA finding should they embellish chapter 9.
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Has anyone considered the simple fact that the FDA is incapable of controlling what they were originally mandated to do ? Let alone now regulate PV's. Me personally, I won't give a rats .... what they say or do. I will continue to use my PV even it it means I'm braking some BS Public Law. The Genie is out of the bottle folks. These things do work better then any other NRT could ever hope to work for smokers of tobacco and Judge Leone of the United States Supreme Court found the E-Cigarette is a Tobacco Product. Obama gave the FDA authority over Tobacco. So now we deal with it. And we as a community can deal with it. In short, the sky is not falling and the Ant's only got a paper tiger to cry to. We may have to pay more for our Nic Juice. Big Deal. After all, it's all about the money.
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Memphis was so awesome... as i vape across the USAFunction at the Injunction... is alright by me"
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By "leaf", I mean the plant.
And how much would the difference be if they "deem" to put onerous "evil cigarette" style taxes on the juice?---because it is a tobacco product---because it is extracted from the
Is it more or less complex to take the chemical constituents and create nicotine. Does anyone see where I'm goin' with this? If "tobacco" nic is a tobacco product; and taxed all to hell, is it not possible that THEN it could be synthesized at a cost that is more than the cost to extract, yet less than the cost to extract + the thievery of gov't run amuck?
I'm guessing the answer is no, but wanted to make sure I was presenting my case properly.
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double post gremlins
Hi people,
I'm pretty new to this whole Vaping thing and after 40 years of a pack/day of analogs, I'm now at two weeks without any analogs. I was interested in the current legislation/regulation and decided to review this thread. However, 900+ posts that go back a few years is somewhat of a slow way for me to understand where this country is currently at with regard to regulating vaping. Can someone please post something like the current state of the laws/regulations?
I recently ordered a few items from Greece (mainly a battery mod and RBA) but while on the site also ordered a few small bottles of juice. My order is currently held up in customs as the invoice had a description of "stainless steel flashlight parts and supplies" and customs wants a detailed line by line description of each item. Is it against the law to import a ecig battery mod? Is it against the law to import ejuice with or without nic? Is it against the law to import an atomizer?
It certainly was not my intention to break any laws as I find the prospect of living out my few remaining years in the crowbar hotel rather unpleasant.
Some education from this group will be greatly appreciated.
BB
I'm pretty new to this whole Vaping thing and after 40 years of a pack/day of analogs, I'm now at two weeks without any analogs. I was interested in the current legislation/regulation and decided to review this thread. However, 900+ posts that go back a few years is somewhat of a slow way for me to understand where this country is currently at with regard to regulating vaping. Can someone please post something like the current state of the laws/regulations?
I recently ordered a few items from Greece (mainly a battery mod and RBA) but while on the site also ordered a few small bottles of juice. My order is currently held up in customs as the invoice had a description of "stainless steel flashlight parts and supplies" and customs wants a detailed line by line description of each item. Is it against the law to import a ecig battery mod? Is it against the law to import ejuice with or without nic? Is it against the law to import an atomizer?
It certainly was not my intention to break any laws as I find the prospect of living out my few remaining years in the crowbar hotel rather unpleasant.
Some education from this group will be greatly appreciated.
BB
As far as I know there aren't any regulations yet, but the FDA indicates they intend to get started on that in April.
And as far as I know there are no laws against importing any of the items you mention.
I suggest you start a new thread to get some advice.
And use a title that will get the attention of people who might have the answers you're looking for.
And as far as I know there are no laws against importing any of the items you mention.
I suggest you start a new thread to get some advice.
And use a title that will get the attention of people who might have the answers you're looking for.
Hi BB, as far as I know, it's not against the law, for now. It may be, if the FDA comes down hard on e-cigs in April, but as of now, I think that you are safe.
Thanks guys for your answers. I'll post my questions in the forum for the seller and see what they say..
BB
BB
There are all sorts of horror stories about US customs, at the FDA's request, holding up, confiscating and refusing entry to all sorts of shipments from ecigarette manufacturers. Batteries, juice, atomizers, cartomizers. Customs has made a practice of stopping random shipments of ecigs ever since they first started to be imported. There is no law against importing any ecig component - if anyone knows otherwise please correct me. Customs and the FDA could care less about following the law. They do what they want to, when they want to, with impunity.
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