I Must State This

[Hill]

Well I just had an idea, why don't the people who make the real stuff sell it at a reasonable price especially mechanicals. After all its just a metal tube with a 510 connection. Sure it might have a fancy engraving and be niceley polished but at the end of the day its still just a tube.

 

[OhmTheWatt]

Well I just had an idea, why don't the people who make the real stuff sell it at a reasonable price especially mechanicals. After all its just a metal tube with a 510 connection. Sure it might have a fancy engraving and be niceley polished but at the end of the day its still just a tube.

I think it's hilarious.

Someone mentioned a 200 dollar mechanical switch. When they put a self lubricating phosphor bronze bushing against a polished ss center post and a lock more innovative than a thin piece of threaded tubing maybe I'll buy that.

Maybe these switches are marvels of machining to an ecig user or even the mod makers. But in the grand scheme of things these designs are so simplistic that you could clone any high end mechanical device I've seen after an 8 week intro to machining course at the local community college.

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[r77r7r]

I think it's hilarious.

Someone mentioned a 200 dollar mechanical switch. When they put a self lubricating phosphor bronze bushing against a polished ss center post and a lock more innovative than a thin piece of threaded tubing maybe I'll buy that.

Maybe these switches are marvels of machining to an ecig user or even the mod makers. But in the grand scheme of things these designs are so simplistic that you could clone any high end mechanical device I've seen after an 8 week intro to machining course at the local community college.

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Lol, ain't that the truth.

 

[bluecat]

I think it's hilarious.

Someone mentioned a 200 dollar mechanical switch. When they put a self lubricating phosphor bronze bushing against a polished ss center post and a lock more innovative than a thin piece of threaded tubing maybe I'll buy that.

Maybe these switches are marvels of machining to an ecig user or even the mod makers. But in the grand scheme of things these designs are so simplistic that you could clone any high end mechanical device I've seen after an 8 week intro to machining course at the local community college.

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The expensive part would be the machining equipment? Correct? At least that is what I had thought. No I did not look at how much the machines cost. Or are they just threading tubes together?

 

[OhmTheWatt]

The expensive part would be the machining equipment? Correct? At least that is what I had thought. No I did not look at how much the machines cost. Or are they just threading tubes together?

I have everything you need to machine any tube mod I've seen. It's not that expensive. Buy used.

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[stevegmu]

Well I just had an idea, why don't the people who make the real stuff sell it at a reasonable price especially mechanicals. After all its just a metal tube with a 510 connection. Sure it might have a fancy engraving and be niceley polished but at the end of the day its still just a tube.

If they can sell their mod for $800 and still not keep up with demand, why charge less? Years ago in a business class, my professor said the most successful businesses charge as much as the market will dictate. Charge too much and sales suffer to the point profits can't keep up with operational costs; charge too little and supply can't keep up with demand and profit margins dwindle as customers seek out other suppliers. If anything, some of these mod makers should probably raise prices, if they are constantly out of stock.

 

[OhmTheWatt]

If they can sell their mod for $800 and still not keep up with demand, why charge less? Years ago in a business class, my professor said the most successful businesses charge as much as the market will dictate. Charge too much and sales suffer to the point profits can't keep up with operational costs; charge too little and supply can't keep up with demand and profit margins dwindle as customers seek out other suppliers. If anything, some of these mod makers should probably raise prices, if they are constantly out of stock.

Producing in very low quantities makes a product exclusive and expensive. And when it's extremely easy to produce an exact copy will always lead to counterfeiters.

I'd be willing to wager the person producing the affordable product is making far more money than the one pricing themselves out of the majority of the market.

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[Kropotkin]

An unmarked "clone" is really just a generic version of a branded item - like the store brand version of Tylenol. Nobody is deceived; people save money; no problem.

Putting fraudulent logos on generic items is something else entirely, and I honestly don't understand how it's possible to defend this.

 

[stevegmu]

Producing in very low quantities makes a product exclusive and expensive. And when it's extremely easy to produce an exact copy will always lead to counterfeiters.

I'd be willing to wager the person producing the affordable product is making far more money than the one pricing themselves out of the majority of the market.

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They guy with access to metal lathes and machining equipment may just make mods as a hobby and would rather not have his hobby become a full time job. Rather than work 14 hours a day cranking out $50 mods, he can work a couple hours a week selling $800 mods. If no one buys them for $800, he lowers his price until all of his mods sell as fast as he cares to make them.

 

[OhmTheWatt]

They guy with access to metal lathes and machining equipment may just make mods as a hobby and would rather not have his hobby become a full time job. Rather than work 14 hours a day cranking out $50 mods, he can work a couple hours a week selling $800 mods. If no one buys them for $800, he lowers his price until all of his mods sell as fast as he cares to make them.

Oh I know. Personally I don't think it's worth my time at all. I'm probably going to install a phosphor bronze bushing in my chi you clone. take all the wiggle out and it will be smooth as glass. Beyond that? I'd rather leave it to others.

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[Arnie H]

An unmarked "clone" is really just a generic version of a branded item - like the store brand version of Tylenol. Nobody is deceived; people save money; no problem.

Putting fraudulent logos on generic items is something else entirely, and I honestly don't understand how it's possible to defend this.

Well sir, I agree with you in spirit. Now if only we could convince the clone/replica makers of this. Perhaps this is what we should be doing instead of attacking one another.

Now, that being said, there are times when the breaking of laws may well be justified (though I am not advocating it). There are times when law simply loses all meaning for people.

People say that the pirates who plundered Spanish galleons laden with gold and silver were criminals. Maybe, but I personally ain't got no problem with them. One, because I know (from the study of history) what was being done to the native peoples and where this "wealth" was coming from, secondly ya gotta admire their boldness and free spiritedness. Many were years ahead of others in terms of moral enlightenment, some of whom spoke out against the slave trade and other injustices they witnessed. Who I am I to judge these men? Who am I to impose my self proclaimed "upper crust, thou shalt not steal, ultra moral super hero" code on them? I am God?

Let us consider another historical example, this time from ancient history (an era which I have indeed studied). Boudica, or Boudicca, the Queen of the Celtic Iceni tribe. I think the last straw for this woman, was when they (the Romans) disregarded the will of her late husband the king, beat her, and then raped her daughters. Something snapped inside of this woman. Now can you blame her? And those of us who are parents will understand. If someone were to ever kill or rape my daughter, though I am not a violent man, I tell this for a truth, especially if I saw that nothing was being done about it, there is no LAW in this land/no POWER on this earth, gonna keep that person safe from me. I will make sure justice is obtained for my daughter, or I will die in the attempt. So Boudica led her people in revolt against the might of the Roman empire. It was of course unsuccessful. But I tell ya, her and her people took as many Romans as they could to the grave with them.

So I am not saying counterfeiting is good, nor am I endorsing it, or any criminal act. I just got no problem if someone buys a clone or even an exact replica, that's their business. A person will buy what they can afford and what is available to them. Who made me God, that I should judge these people?

 

[SissySpike]

With out the people supporting that market there would be none. So the people who buy such devices are just as guilty as the makers. Your OP suggest the price of a mod is to high when you say over spend. I also see some entitlement issues with your OP as when some one cant afford something its ok to purchase a counterfeit.

Back in the clone days it was just a name rip off the product just used a popular selling devices name to get sales. Now there are just plane counterfeits being sold. Its a shame this practice is supported.

There all price range of mods for every income level with out having a counterfeit market.

 

[fetalbounce]

I was looking at this:
$36.28 Maraxus Telescopic Mechanical Mod - eight vent holes / floating 510 center pin at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

I tried to order a battery from them. After a few weeks they refunded my money. I never had any contact with them and never made a request for a refund. They didn't tell me why they gave me the refund either. I heard they have shipping problems.

 

[Thrasher]

Well sir, I agree with you in spirit. Now if only we could convince the clone/replica makers of this. Perhaps this is what we should be doing instead of attacking one another.

well gee golly Einstein, the only way to get that to happen is if we convince people to stop buying them.

People say that the pirates who plundered Spanish galleons laden with gold and silver were criminals. Maybe, but I personally ain't got no problem with them

Make sure you do your homework and check on pirates like Capt Morgan who had no problem denouncing this lifestyle, abandoning his men and working FOR the spanish chasing pirates when the bill was due on his crimes.

but you probably think it was very entrepreneurial of Christopher Columbus to use young indian girls as items to be traded amongst his men for sex slaves too

 

[Kropotkin]

Well sir, I agree with you in spirit. Now if only we could convince the clone/replica makers of this.

The clone makers cynically assume that people will buy fake status symbols no matter how deceitful this may be. If we really wanted to convince them not to do this, we could simply stop proving them right.

A number of venders - Kidney Punch, for one - sell clones without logos. They're not at all hard to find. Choosing the fraudulent item is a conscious choice, and I can't imagine why you're arguing that people have such weak characters that they're somehow driven to do this against their will.

That's a pretty patronizing attitude, don't you think?

 

[2highcal]

I do not like the word clone personally it is actually pirating which I believe is illegal as well as immoral. Sorry if this has already been stated

 

[SissySpike]

I do not like the word clone personally it is actually pirating which I believe is illegal as well as immoral. Sorry if this has already been stated

I saw pirate clones at a circus once they were funny! ;-)

 

[Mr.Mann]

I do not like the word clone personally it is actually pirating which I believe is illegal as well as immoral. Sorry if this has already been stated

Imagine how Hon Lik feels.

 

[Arnie H]

well gee golly Einstein, the only way to get that to happen is if we convince people to stop buying them.

You do not "convince" people to stop buying them by attacking them, or bashing them, or waving your finger in their face, or slapping them on the wrist. I am not a saint (and I suspect neither are you). What am I Batman? Superman? Copyright infringement man? Putting junkies in jail does not address the root cause of the issue. It does nothing to address the poverty, despair and other factors which lead people to become ...... addicts. Sorry, but I'm just not gonna pick up that first stone. Who am I tell people that what they are doing is bad? I leave men like Dutch Shultz and Jack the Ripper alone (and with good reason). Let the feds or God judge or deal with them. Now if ya think you wouldn't find the Mayor or the Chief of Police in one of Mr. Luciano's brothels, you know nothing about New York City.

but you probably think it was very entrepreneurial of Christopher Columbus to use young indian girls as items to be traded amongst his men for sex slaves too

Although I haven't studied this period extensively, I do know enough about him to be aware of his crimes and so forth. This would require an entire discussion on what I consider the genocide of the Native American people. I used to have a girlfriend who was Lakota Sioux (can you guess what she had to say about these Europeans, about these great founding fathers?) Now pirates were an interesting group of people, and varied widely in their beliefs and practices. Some people think that they were only brave whilst aboard their ships, on the contrary, whole "armies" of pirates would disembark and attack towns and villages on foot. Some thieves are dumb, but most though are very intelligent, you have to be if you want to be a successful theif. They are naturally gonna be found where their is an abundance of wealth or where they suspect it might be. It makes no logical sense for a Robin Hood to steal from dirt poor peasants. Or for an intelligent thief to rob a homeless person (AHA! this filthy bag of clothes is now mine!).

 

[quiter]

What I find rather ironic about this is that the e-cig business wouldn't even be around if not for China. So complaining about China stealing our "ideas" is rather funny. I was making variable voltage mods from battery boxes and pots before anyone I knew had them for sale. Should I get all tissy about it that others did the same and made them cheap and available? Should they get ticked when the VV mods started coming from China and copied their ideas, that they copied and made better from guys like me? I guess what I'm saying is that it's an ever evolving industry and you have to stay on top with the next best thing.

Ps. Does anyone make a VV hybrid yet? If not should I patent it and then cry when China does it better for less? Or makes a cheap knockoff, when in fact I wouldn't even be thinking about making the product in the first place if not for China?

If you can make the best product and back it up with the best service people will continue to buy from you, even if there is a cheaper knockoff. I think we need to stop pretending that there would even be a Provari if not for China or for guys like me and so many others who first started experimenting with VV.

Now if a company knows they are selling something that is labeled a provari and isn't then take up that beaf with the company that is committing fraud. That is legit.