Max flavor out of MTL RTA?

[Superuser187]

The wierd thing that that this don't happen in the middle of the coil to be honest usually happens there it could be a hotspot but how can a spaced coil have hotspot there....make sure u have tight post screws but ofc not over tight them....hmmmmm maybe it's the wicking in that part in kinda tight....really i know man it's not easy...ok it's not bad...as u say it's not many puffs it's brand new...
Just keep vaping it until u see difference in flavour....just ignore it and vape it...until u feel flavour is less or bad....
But pls....don't forget that the tool to measure flavour if your tastebuds and believe me they can trick you sometimes....I used to brush my teeth all the time and then wait until the flavour comes back...there is also a thing I hear people call vapers tongue that they say u loose your flavour or something sometimes....I don't know if it's true
But at first times I had some spit backs and that was making me tastebuds get "burned" after than even brushing teeth and wait and still couldn't taste my vape juice good....I mean always keep in mind sometimes maybe your build wasnt the problem just saying

 

[MacTechVpr]

Symmetry + Strain = Consistency (coherence)

@MichaellMcCoyy, humor us. Try winding on a metric bit with a pin vise. Whether a contact or closely and equally spaced open coil. An alternative would be using a screw closely matching your wire gauge as a guide Use tension and you will add some rigidity and durability to the wind. Use a coiler if you have to and separate the resulting imperfect contact coil from the ends. Point being that irregularity in i.d., spacing and strain turn-by-turn can lead to unpredictable heating and termination. Uniformity will greatly help repeatability and aid in diagnosing problems with heat output and wicking.

But I see you may already have a handle on this. Without the time to look further, my first impression says you're under-powered for the build. I'll try and come back.

Best of luck.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Symmetry + Strain = Consistency (coherence)

@MichaellMcCoyy, humor us. Try winding on a metric bit with a pin vise. Whether a contact or closely and equally spaced open coil. An alternative would be using a screw closely matching your wire gauge as a guide Use tension and you will add some rigidity and durability to the wind. Use a coiler if you have to and separate the resulting imperfect contact coil from the ends. Point being that irregularity in i.d., spacing and strain turn-by-turn can lead to unpredictable heating and termination. Uniformity will greatly help repeatability and aid in diagnosing problems with heat output and wicking.

But I see you may already have a handle on this. Without the time to look further, my first impression says you're under-powered for the build. I'll try and come back.

Best of luck.

I use a coil jig to tightly wind a contact coil and then evenly (or as evenly as possible) pull it apart. It seems to be pretty tight when I reinsert the rod (unless I try to use twisted wire, but that’s another topic). I do have problems with the legs, sometimes. Trying to get it evenly placed over the center of the airflow will sometimes deform them. Here is a cleaner coil - but 3ml of juice and it’s burning already

 

[MacTechVpr]

I use a coil jig to tightly wind a contact coil and then evenly (or as evenly as possible) pull it apart. It seems to be pretty tight when I reinsert the rod (unless I try to use twisted wire, but that’s another topic). I do have problems with the legs, sometimes. Trying to get it evenly placed over the center of the airflow will sometimes deform them. Here is a cleaner coil - but 3ml of juice and it’s burning already

This latest coil looks really nice. Does seem quite hotter at center but can't say on the power without knowing your coilØ and lead length.

I try to always use the least force on winds during installation. Planning and pre-shaping lead direction or exit from the wind helps. I use a screwdriver or similar of the exact coil diameter to position coils butting up against the coil from the side I am tightening down. This helps limit uneven splaying while adding very little stretch to the wire.

So, yes, alignment is tricky sometimes depending on the deck/posts. Splaying of the leads can certainly produce slight differences in strain (resistance) between the leads. This sometimes can be the very source of hot leads. Prevention like polishing contact points on screws, re-torquing them as the build breaks in can often help. But if the diff in resistance persists, a continued hot lead, best to just do another. Takes minutes and worth it. The more consistently we build, the better the vape. However, sometimes it really just is the wire itself and no sense sweating it.

Back to the begin…do suggest you take a look at steam-engine.org for help with design of your coil builds. A slight learning curve but should prove very rewarding.

steam-engine.org

Congrats and enjoy the vape.

Good luck.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

This latest coil looks really nice. Does seem quite hotter at center but can't say on the power without knowing your coilØ and lead length.

I try to always use the least force on winds during installation. Planning and pre-shaping lead direction or exit from the wind helps. I use a screwdriver or similar of the exact coil diameter to position coils butting up against the coil from the side I am tightening down. This helps limit uneven splaying while adding very little stretch to the wire.

So, yes, alignment is tricky sometimes depending on the deck/posts. Splaying of the leads can certainly produce slight differences in strain (resistance) between the leads. This sometimes can be the very source of hot leads. Prevention like polishing contact points on screws, re-torquing them as the build breaks in can often help. But if the diff in resistance persists, a continued hot lead, best to just do another. Takes minutes and worth it. The more consistently we build, the better the vape. However, sometimes it really just is the wire itself and no sense sweating it.

Back to the begin…do suggest you take a look at steam-engine.org for help with design of your coil builds. A slight learning curve but should prove very rewarding.

steam-engine.org

Congrats and enjoy the vape.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I do use steam engine to make sure my coil is within a reasonable range of what it’s supposed to be. This one is 1 ohm 28ga SS316L at 3.0ID. Vaping it at 22 watts.

I do keep my coil jig inserted while tightening the wire to the posts, so I’d think it wouldn’t move much after that initial tightening. After my initial dry fire I always re tighten so it’s probably at this stage it’s deforming a bit. I’ll just re insert for good measure.

I don’t think I have hot legs, they’re as short as they can be from center of airflow to the post, and they don’t glow while I’m dry firing.

I really did think it was the wire I was using so I bought a spool of fused Clapton from Vandy Vape and they still get black within 2-4ml of juice....

 

[Seiggy]

Your latest coil picture looks good from what I can see. The dark center of the coil is what is first to heat up when you fire. Is it possible that you have pre-heat configured and a High wattage and a long duration (over .5 sec) ? If set, you may want to disable pre-heat and just let your wattage setting heat the coil to temp. Just a thought which may have already been discussed.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Your wind specs at…

SS316L 10/9 3.0Ø L=5 @ 3.054Ω

and you're def pushing enough pwr to drive the Ø which was my doubt.

Wouldn't be as concerned about short leads for res efficiency as making sure to be as close as possible to air flow for this much wicking/juice flow. So another couple of mm of lead is not going to break things (or give that muther some air 'right?).

Haven't worked with TC some time now so unsure. But you could try straight up var power/bypass for comparison.

Interested in your results so I'm trackin. Hope some with more TC exp may pipe in.

Good luck Michael.

 

[Mordacai]

Do you have any 27 AWG wire @MichaellMcCoyy?

As I'm wondering what a 6.5 wrap 3mm ID coil may be like for you, as I'm wondering about the coil mass. As a 6.5 wrap 27 AWG coil has lower mass and heat capacity than a 9.5 wrap 28 AWG coil that you're using.

And an added benefit of using a heavier gauge wire is that it makes coiling and wicking easier.

 

[Fstop]

My opinion is there is cotton and there is cotton. Cottonman's is clean and very high quality. Do I find his cottons provide superior flavor over all the other brands I've tried? Absolutely. I have tried most of them.

Try as many as you can in order to find what works best for you.

Also try rayon. Some find rayon provides superior flavor over cotton. I use both.

As far as juice goes if you want complete control over what you are vaping, its quality and ingredients get into DIY. I got into DIY shortly after I started vaping in 2012 because I thought all the retail juices I tried sucked. And I tried many. It's well known that retail juices are over flavored and use way too much sweetener.

If I remember correctly didn't you say you are not into alot of flavor vaping? And what are they, again? I'm a flavor coward! Lol Only have 2 tight now

 

[Fstop]

Your wind specs at…

SS316L 10/9 3.0Ø L=5 @ 3.054Ω

and you're def pushing enough pwr to drive the Ø which was my doubt.

Wouldn't be as concerned about short leads for res efficiency as making sure to be as close as possible to air flow for this much wicking/juice flow. So another couple of mm of lead is not going to break things (or give that muther some air 'right?).

Haven't worked with TC some time now so unsure. But you could try straight up var power/bypass for comparison.

Interested in your results so I'm trackin. Hope some with more TC exp may pipe in.

Good luck Michael.

Interesting wind & power specs

 

[Mordacai]

@Fstop, I think that @ShowMeTwice is meaning is that Rayon is a relatively neutral wicking material. So it tends to add little to no taste at all.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

If I remember correctly didn't you say you are not into alot of flavor vaping? And what are they, again? I'm a flavor coward! Lol Only have 2 tight now

I love full flavored juices. I don't make juices with high %'s of flavors. Most of my DIY juices fall into the 3-9% range total. But those are using ultra concentrated flavors from Medicine Flower and Flavorah. Also Flavour Art. IMO you don't need much and all offer a ton of flavor at low %'s.

I only have a couple juices that fall between 10-12% total but those are also using TPA/TFA, CAP and some others in addition to the FLV, FA and MF.

I don't do juices with any added sweetner's, can't stand sweet juices. You can make any juice sweet without sweetener's. And no NET's. Both of those are known wick and coil killers.

If you are asking what wicking I use...
For cottons: Fine Cotton Wick | The Cotton Man
I use Mavaton's Select, Carolina Blend and Mavaton's X. All are super clean and excellent. Been using his cottons for years.

For Rayon I use the Tidi balls.

I use cotton and rayon equally in my RBA's.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

@Fstop, I think that @ShowMeTwice is meaning is that Rayon is a relatively neutral wicking material. So it tends to add little to no taste at all.

Right. The Tidi rayon balls have a much shorter break-in time over any of the other rayons. Tidi rayon balls are medical grade, clean. After 12 hits, 20 max, all I get is the pure flavor of my juice.

After about 15-20 hits with Cotton Man's cottons there is also no residual cotton taste whatsoever.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I always make spaced ss316L coils so I can vape in TC or wattage modes.

My coils are always evenly positioned directly over the AF when using bottom airflow. Just about all of my RTA's are bottom AF (Kayfun's, Tripod's, Dvarw's, Pocket v2). IMO bottom AF offers a better vape and flavor. Also lowering or raising your coil will affect the quality of vape. Some I position 1mm above the AF and others 1.5mm to 2mm.

I have several single and dual sided AF RDA's and for those I like the air hitting the bottom 1/3 of the coil. That's a sweet spot IMO. Several others on ECF have noted the same. I always position my coils so they are getting even AF. Again raising, or lowering, the height of the coil relative to the AF does make a difference in quality of vape.

The one exception with RDA's are my Creek's. Atmizoo did a fantastic job designing a bottom, directly under coil, raised oblong shaped airflow. See photo. The Creek is my #1 RDA for flavor, hands down, and IMO that is because of bottom AF. I wish more RDA's were designed as nicely.

You can clearly see the oblong bottom AF design on the Creek deck. I build my coil for the Creek so air is hitting all of the coil. On the top cap you can see where air enters at the bottom and is routed upwards.
Better explanation:


I have a few Hussar Project X RTA's which are side AF. It has 3 x 1.5mm AF holes on each side, dual-sided AF. I build my coil and position it so the air is hitting the entire coil. In this deck design AF is hitting the bottom of the coil. I just snapped this pic...

Airflow is as illustrated. Also that's a Mavaton's cotton wick that is 12 days old. Flavor is still excellent and my juice is a DIY orange dreamsicle. The Project X offers RDA like flavor in an RTA. In fact the build decks on their RDA's are pretty much identical to the X.

The coil is a 26/36 ss316L 2.5mm ID clapton at 0.45 ohms. I can adjust the Project X AF to vape from 14-30 watts (tight MTL to a decent RDL).

ETA: The coil above is being used in TC mode mainly.

 

[smacuser]

You're doing it wrong .

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Your latest coil picture looks good from what I can see. The dark center of the coil is what is first to heat up when you fire. Is it possible that you have pre-heat configured and a High wattage and a long duration (over .5 sec) ? If set, you may want to disable pre-heat and just let your wattage setting heat the coil to temp. Just a thought which may have already been discussed.

No preheat as far as I’m aware. Using the basic power mode on aegis mini.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Do you have any 27 AWG wire @MichaellMcCoyy?

As I'm wondering what a 6.5 wrap 3mm ID coil may be like for you, as I'm wondering about the coil mass. As a 6.5 wrap 27 AWG coil has lower mass and heat capacity than a 9.5 wrap 28 AWG coil that you're using.

And an added benefit of using a heavier gauge wire is that it makes coiling and wicking easier.

I don’t have any but I could buy some. I don’t think I’m having any trouble with coiling or wicking, but I’m still new to this. I’m getting great flavor and vapor just burning my coil after a couple ML of juice even at a lowish wattage setting for the coil.

 

[MichaellMcCoyy]

Your wind specs at…

SS316L 10/9 3.0Ø L=5 @ 3.054Ω

and you're def pushing enough pwr to drive the Ø which was my doubt.

Wouldn't be as concerned about short leads for res efficiency as making sure to be as close as possible to air flow for this much wicking/juice flow. So another couple of mm of lead is not going to break things (or give that muther some air 'right?).

Haven't worked with TC some time now so unsure. But you could try straight up var power/bypass for comparison.

Interested in your results so I'm trackin. Hope some with more TC exp may pipe in.

Good luck Michael.

I am using only wattage mode nowadays, because TC wasn’t working for me

 

[Seiggy]

The only other thing I can think of is to try unflavored e-liquid to see if that helps. I'm at a loss.

 

[Mordacai]

As daft as it sounds @MichaellMcCoyy, the coil idea I listed would be worth a try.

It has less mass and heat capacity than your 9.5 wrap 28 AWG one, and I think that may most certainly be causing issues. And causing the blackening of your coil and wicking to accelerate.

But all you were able to assimilate was that it helps with coiling and wicking, which was an extra point. Not the most important one of cooling capacity of the RTA and coil mass.