Micro Coils to increase Vapor, flavor & TH

[UKPaul]

HOWDY, UkiePaw!!

Hi pdib, my old friend,
Congratulations with your mod building.
I havn't been posting much but have been following bits and pieces of your journey.
I hope it is going well for you, I am sure it is has been truly hard work.
Your mod looks beautiful in the pictures I have seen of it and if it's anything like most Reo pics they probably don't do it anywhere near the justice it deserves.

 

[etherealink]

Guys really stupid simple question. Does a micro coil really increase the surface area? I mean with the same length of wire, the wire in its total length will cover the same amount of wick whatever the diameter is . I am having problems with a coil because it was too fast heating up (it is 1/16 id) and neither rayon nor kgd is keeping up, and that's when it hit me.

This, and the replies, are why I love this thread. Nothing but the honest examples from people that are working the same problem daily.

Aal, for me, surface area is a somewhat simple thing. The length of the coil and inner diameter of the coil should allow for the heat to dissipate so that the juice does not "caramelize" and degrade into the sugars that gunk up coils as it happens.

It sounds a bit like magick, I know. But stay with me. Russ had a brilliant concept with the original microcoil... and it was a blend of heating, cooling and resistance.

The resistance and heat are fairly obvious, the catch is that cooling and the inner diameter have to be somewhat matched to allow the wicking to keep up and not burn. Thus the reason everyone started looking for non-organic, fire-resistant wick material; like silica (its glass for God's sake!).

When I changed to a lower resistance I had to make the inner diameter of my coils larger to compensate for the increase in heat, something that we once thought was simply to make the vape "tolerable" and to increase vapor production. But simply closing off the airflow and taking a drag will prove that air will not change the vapor produced, only temper the relative heat of the vapor. Simply put, air does not make vapor.

I would guess that either your wick is slightly loose (harsh, burnt flavor) or your airflow simply isn't keeping up with the change in resistance. Consider stepping up a size in inner diameter and still matching the wick density and see what that does for you.

All of the many variables are incredibly precise... even if we are not. Experiment and let us know the results Brother.

Vape strong!

 

[Aal_]

This, and the replies, are why I love this thread. Nothing but the honest examples from people that are working the same problem daily.

Aal, for me, surface area is a somewhat simple thing. The length of the coil and inner diameter of the coil should allow for the heat to dissipate so that the juice does not "caramelize" and degrade into the sugars that gunk up coils as it happens.

It sounds a bit like magick, I know. But stay with me. Russ had a brilliant concept with the original microcoil... and it was a blend of heating, cooling and resistance.

The resistance and heat are fairly obvious, the catch is that cooling and the inner diameter have to be somewhat matched to allow the wicking to keep up and not burn. Thus the reason everyone started looking for non-organic, fire-resistant wick material; like silica (its glass for God's sake!).

When I changed to a lower resistance I had to make the inner diameter of my coils larger to compensate for the increase in heat, something that we once thought was simply to make the vape "tolerable" and to increase vapor production. But simply closing off the airflow and taking a drag will prove that air will not change the vapor produced, only temper the relative heat of the vapor. Simply put, air does not make vapor.

I would guess that either your wick is slightly loose (harsh, burnt flavor) or your airflow simply isn't keeping up with the change in resistance. Consider stepping up a size in inner diameter and still matching the wick density and see what that does for you.

All of the many variables are incredibly precise... even if we are not. Experiment and let us know the results Brother.

Vape strong!

I'm going out now, I won't be able to reply fully. I will after some hours. Don't go anywhere

 

[etherealink]

I'm going out now, I won't be able to reply fully. I will after some hours. Don't go anywhere

I'm a night shift zombie Aal, I'm here all day lol!

 

[MasterofNone]

Was that a afk, brb?
Haha

 

[Aal_]

This, and the replies, are why I love this thread. Nothing but the honest examples from people that are working the same problem daily.

Yep my go to thread too. It's like the parent of all other threads

Aal, for me, surface area is a somewhat simple thing. The length of the coil and inner diameter of the coil should allow for the heat to dissipate so that the juice does not "caramelize" and degrade into the sugars that gunk up coils as it happens.

Yep. The benefit of the microcoil is realizing that. Less gunk, better heat distribution and before I though more surface, but this latter is not true in reality because as we said length defines the surface. But still the former reasons are enough to keep using microcoils.

It sounds a bit like magick, I know. But stay with me. Russ had a brilliant concept with the original microcoil... and it was a blend of heating, cooling and resistance.

Yep

The resistance and heat are fairly obvious, the catch is that cooling and the inner diameter have to be somewhat matched to allow the wicking to keep up and not burn. Thus the reason everyone started looking for non-organic, fire-resistant wick material; like silica (its glass for God's sake!).

When I changed to a lower resistance I had to make the inner diameter of my coils larger to compensate for the increase in heat, something that we once thought was simply to make the vape "tolerable" and to increase vapor production. But simply closing off the airflow and taking a drag will prove that air will not change the vapor produced, only temper the relative heat of the vapor. Simply put, air does not make vapor.

Just a comment here. More air makes more vapor just because it increases the capacity of your lung in a short time. Yes air does not add vapor but people don't draw till the end of their breath when using a small air hole that's why they think they are producing more vapor with big air. HOWEVER, there is also the theory that more air removes the vapor out of the way faster which allows more vapor to constitute.

I would guess that either your wick is slightly loose (harsh, burnt flavor) or your airflow simply isn't keeping up with the change in resistance. Consider stepping up a size in inner diameter and still matching the wick density and see what that does for you.

Not loose wick and no air problems. To be honest i don't think air would help that much in this case. The effect of air in cooling a dry wick is minimal IMHO. What I think I am getting is just a case of too fast heat up with too small diameter. you know adding just 1 wrap or increasing diameter by 1mm could have made a big difference. I am too fanatic about microcoils that I wanted not to increase the diameter. What I did is below

All of the many variables are incredibly precise... even if we are not. Experiment and let us know the results Brother.

Vape strong!

I decided to split the coil by introducing a middle crack/gap. I kinda deformed it but it worked. I can take a 10 second toot with no dry hit now. The effect was noticeable though. I noticed the heat went down a little, like the smallest reduction you can feel. I don't know about vapor, since I couldn't take more than 1.5 seconds toot previously.

 

[supertrunker]

A Dibi-crack if i remember! Long time since i saw a coil like that Aal.

T

 

[Aal_]

A Dibi-crack if i remember! Long time since i saw a coil like that Aal.

T

Yep, I didn't say a dibi crack because well it isn't really (it is a clone lol). A dibi crack you bend the wire and wrap the opposite direction which leave a side of the wick completely exposed from a side with better cooling. What i did is just a matter of separating and creating a space.

Next time if I want to attempt this for sure I would go for a proper dibi crack. But I'm not sure how I can do that with a pin vise wrapping method

 

[pdib]

I was just thinking about that a few weeks ago. I had started using a gap to allow the wicking to keep up with those intense 26g Nichrome, .5Ω coils . . . . .. . it worked great.

but now I'm vaping dual 26g Kanthal coils (1/16 ID) with no crack and never a thought to wicking and juice. Not to mention the 24 and 22g coils with no gap. It's like the laws of physics changed when I wasn't looking. Nonetheless, the crack worked very well when it needed to. It could be that I just mindlessly up the ID by just enough as I drop lower in gauge. Which is why I had thought the Micro-coil parameters maybe should be more of a proportion thing rather than a strict ID# thing.

 

[MasterofNone]

They are contact coils in larger diameter. Micro is very specific upper limit to inner diameter

( what's the upper limit? I have no idea. I figure 1/16

 

[Aal_]

They are contact coils in larger diameter. Micro is very specific upper limit to inner diameter

( what's the upper limit? I have no idea. I figure 1/16

As I remember 1.65mm

 

[MasterofNone]

Yea that sounds right. I think there's even a chart superxdrifter made for it.

 

[Aal_]

I was just thinking about that a few weeks ago. I had started using a gap to allow the wicking to keep up with those intense 26g Nichrome, .5Ω coils . . . . .. . it worked great.

but now I'm vaping dual 26g Kanthal coils (1/16 ID) with no crack and never a thought to wicking and juice. Not to mention the 24 and 22g coils with no gap. It's like the laws of physics changed when I wasn't looking. Nonetheless, the crack worked very well when it needed to. It could be that I just mindlessly up the ID by just enough as I drop lower in gauge. Which is why I had thought the Micro-coil parameters maybe should be more of a proportion thing rather than a strict ID# thing.

Still Peter, all your examples include very low gauge compared to the 30 ga. My setup was 30 ga at 0.5 ohms. I don't think you went that low with 30 ga?

I could see it working without a crack with even 28 gauge. I know because I have done it before

 

[Filth E Mcnasti]

I'm having some issues with my builds. I built a dual coil with 28g kanthal on my fogger v5 to about .8 ohms. I wicked it with cotton, just snug but not choking it. I fired it up with my mech mod, but I am getting incredibly bad throat hit, like a serious burn in the back of my throat.

I built a parallel single micro coil with two strands of 30g this morning to 1 ohm in my rda, I have the air hole drilled out, and I'm still getting poor flavor and very harsh throat hits. Same thing, wicked with cotton, but not enough to choke it. I can't figure out what's going on! Please help.

Btw, I'm using japanese cotton sheets, cut into a strip and split in half!

 

[pdib]

Still Peter, all your examples include very low gauge compared to the 30 ga. My setup was 30 ga at 0.5 ohms. I don't think you went that low with 30 ga?

I could see it working without a crack with even 28 gauge. I know because I have done it before

at least not in the last two pages i didn't.

 

[Aal_]

at least not in the last two pages i didn't.

Peter that's long so higher resistance so less power No?

 

[muzichead]

I was just thinking about that a few weeks ago. I had started using a gap to allow the wicking to keep up with those intense 26g Nichrome, .5Ω coils . . . . .. . it worked great.

but now I'm vaping dual 26g Kanthal coils (1/16 ID) with no crack and never a thought to wicking and juice. Not to mention the 24 and 22g coils with no gap. It's like the laws of physics changed when I wasn't looking. Nonetheless, the crack worked very well when it needed to. It could be that I just mindlessly up the ID by just enough as I drop lower in gauge. Which is why I had thought the Micro-coil parameters maybe should be more of a proportion thing rather than a strict ID# thing.

Why 5 coils on one side and 4 on the other? Did I miss something in the translation a year ago?

 

[pdib]

Why 5 coils on one side and 4 on the other? Did I miss something in the translation a year ago?

i wanted the resistance of about 9 wraps on that one. Or however many . .. . in any case, that's how much wire I wanted to use.

 

[pdib]

Peter that's long so higher resistance so less power No?

OK, you're right. It's just that exactly the wire gauge and the resistance and the ID you happened to have chosen is the problem. That must be it.

back when I was playing with these, I was vaping .5-.6Ω

For all intents and purposes, you shouldn't be having wicking problems based on the parameters of your build.

 

[Aal_]

OK, you're right. It's just that exactly the wire gauge and the resistance and the ID you happened to have chosen is the problem. That must be it.

back when I was playing with these, I was vaping .5-.6Ω

For all intents and purposes, you shouldn't be having wicking problems based on the parameters of your build.

Baa, you're more fun in your own thread