New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[mikepetro]

HI Mike and ECF everyone, Thank you very much for putting all of this together Mike. I've been trying to wrap my head around this, reading and rereading the data and the posts then the temperatures and watching controls on my mod - both have me confused!! Of course I'm wanting to be as safe as possible if I can control the issue in any way.

I'm using a Smoant Battlestar it has TC, but when I use the TC it seems to burn hotter, I can taste it. Even on the lowest setting for the TC will kick on at 100C or 200F and says it's burning at 75W which is way hotter than I usually use. But if I use the Watts where I normally have it that's at 35W and it's a much smoother throat hit rather mild. Then when it's on the W setting I can't tell what the actual temp is burning at.
So is it better to use it at the 35W or the TC when it tastes hotter?
Which is producing the lower chemical output
Thanks Again
Jody

My brain isnt in full gear yet, need more coffee, will respond later.

 

[mikepetro]

HI Mike and ECF everyone, Thank you very much for putting all of this together Mike. I've been trying to wrap my head around this, reading and rereading the data and the posts then the temperatures and watching controls on my mod - both have me confused!! Of course I'm wanting to be as safe as possible if I can control the issue in any way.

I'm using a Smoant Battlestar it has TC, but when I use the TC it seems to burn hotter, I can taste it. Even on the lowest setting for the TC will kick on at 100C or 200F and says it's burning at 75W which is way hotter than I usually use. But if I use the Watts where I normally have it that's at 35W and it's a much smoother throat hit rather mild. Then when it's on the W setting I can't tell what the actual temp is burning at.
So is it better to use it at the 35W or the TC when it tastes hotter?
Which is producing the lower chemical output
Thanks Again
Jody

Hi Jody,

First and foremost, if it tastes burnt, do something different, period.

Given the two choices above I would use 35w in Watts mode.

However, it sounds to me that something is wrong with your TC setup.

• What wire are you using? Does Smoant know its TCR?
  • supports Nickel200/Titanium/Stainless Steel/ TCR
• What type coil. Clapton, spaced, etc.
• Does the Smoant have a "preheat" function, if so turn it down.
• Does the Smoant have a "Max Watts" setting in TC mode, if so try lower it to 40w.

Send me a link to the SMOANT manual and I will look at for you.
Lets get TC working right.


ETA:

Smoant Battlestar Menu System and Operation

• 5 clicks of the power button turn the device on and off
• Screwing an atomizer into the 510 connector will prompt you to enter whether a new coil (by pressing plus) or the same coil (by pressing minus) has been entered.
• 3 clicks of the power button will take you into the menu system.
• Holding down fire as well as plus and minus will lock the power
• Holding down fire and plus will invert the screen colour
• Whilst in the menu system, pressing either the plus or minus button will scroll between VW (variable wattage)/Ni (Ni200 coil for TC)/Ti (Titanium coil for TC)/ SS (Stainless Steel coil for TC)/NC (new coil)/TCR M1/M2/M3. Click the fire button to confirm the mode
• Three custom TCR slots are available, allowing you to enter the TCR for a specific wire and use it in temperature control
• In TCR, pressing plus or minus allow you to select the coefficient value, and press the fire button when you have the desired value.
• For a stainless steel coil (SS303, 304, 316 and 317) the TCR range is 150-60. For Gold, it is 300-340. For Titanium, it is 350-370. For Silver, it is 371-380. For Copper, it is 381-390. For Ni-Fe it is 391-500. For Nickel it is 500-700.
• Reverse polarity, over heating, low voltage, overload/short circuit, no atomizer and overheat protections are built it, as well as a 10 second cut off.

 

[jdy]

Hi Jody,

First and foremost, if it tastes burnt, do something different, period.

Given the two choices above I would use 35w in Watts mode.

However, it sounds to me that something is wrong with your TC setup.

• What wire are you using? Does Smoant know its TCR?
  
• What type coil. Clapton, spaced, etc.
• Does the Smoant have a "preheat" function, if so turn it down.
• Does the Smoant have a "Max Watts" setting in TC mode, if so try lower it to 40w.

Send me a link to the SMOANT manual and I will look at for you.
Lets get TC working right.

Hi Mike, It didn’t even cross my mind that it could be the product not working correctly! Or maybe there are other setting I’ve failed to discover- OMG. OK I’ll get answers to these questions together and get back to you shortly.
Thank you!!
Jody

 

[jdy]

Hi again,

Hi Mike, It didn’t even cross my mind that it could be the product not working correctly! Or maybe there are other setting I’ve failed to discover- OMG. OK I’ll get answers to these questions together and get back to you shortly.
Thank you!!
Jody

Smoant Battlestar 200W Dual 18650 Ni/Ti/SS/TCR Portable TC Mod

This should link to the Battlestar, working on more
Thanks

 

[jdy]

Hi Jody,

First and foremost, if it tastes burnt, do something different, period.

Given the two choices above I would use 35w in Watts mode.

However, it sounds to me that something is wrong with your TC setup.

• What wire are you using? Does Smoant know its TCR?
  • supports Nickel200/Titanium/Stainless Steel/ TCR
• What type coil. Clapton, spaced, etc.
• Does the Smoant have a "preheat" function, if so turn it down.
• Does the Smoant have a "Max Watts" setting in TC mode, if so try lower it to 40w.

Send me a link to the SMOANT manual and I will look at for you.
Lets get TC working right.


ETA:

HI Again!!

I had to open up the mod to find the number on the coil I couldn't remember what was in it!
I'm running, .5 o SS coil and always use 60/40 VG/PG then using the example you added on finding the TC is how it is adjusted. I did find another way to change something in TC not sure yet what it changes but a second selection of the button in TC brings up a number .0000499 and by the looks of it the Watts can be adjusted there.

SO MANY Settings I'll let you know how this runs after testing it for a bit
THANK YOU!!!!
Jody

 

[mikepetro]

HI Again!!

I had to open up the mod to find the number on the coil I couldn't remember what was in it!
I'm running, .5 o SS coil and always use 60/40 VG/PG then using the example you added on finding the TC is how it is adjusted. I did find another way to change something in TC not sure yet what it changes but a second selection of the button in TC brings up a number .0000499 and by the looks of it the Watts can be adjusted there.

SO MANY Settings I'll let you know how this runs after testing it for a bit
THANK YOU!!!!
Jody

That ".0000499" sounds like the coefficient for Nickel, which would make the temps are way off. "For a stainless steel coil (SS303, 304, 316 and 317) the TCR range is 150-60".

Follow this menu below and see if you can select SS.

• Whilst in the menu system, pressing either the plus or minus button will scroll between VW (variable wattage)/Ni (Ni200 coil for TC)/Ti (Titanium coil for TC)/ SS (Stainless Steel coil for TC)/NC (new coil)/TCR M1/M2/M3. Click the fire button to confirm the mode
• Three custom TCR slots are available, allowing you to enter the TCR for a specific wire and use it in temperature control
• In TCR, pressing plus or minus allow you to select the coefficient value, and press the fire button when you have the desired value.
• For a stainless steel coil (SS303, 304, 316 and 317) the TCR range is 150-60. For Gold, it is 300-340. For Titanium, it is 350-370. For Silver, it is 371-380. For Copper, it is 381-390. For Ni-Fe it is 391-500. For Nickel it is 500-700.
• Reverse polarity, over heating, low voltage, overload/short circuit, no atomizer and overheat protections are built it, as well as a 10 second cut off.

 

[mikepetro]

In TC mode hold the + button and fire button to adjust your wattage

 

[Ipster]

I'm not sure I would go so Far as to say that this is an Infomercial with the attempt to Eliminate Competition. Or that it is Creative Science.

Because Haven't we Known (or at least Some of use have known) for a Long Time that there was Thermal Breakdown of VG and or PG at Elevated Temperatures?

Not say'n that a Patent Holder isn't going to Benefit from a FDA Regulated Market where the Only PMTA-able e-Cigarette have some form of Limited Atomizer wire Temperature.

But does that mean that we should Not Consider what is Physically/Chemically going on when a Atomizer Wire reaches a certain Temperature?

I Second it- infomercial, selective science ... perfect pitch for FDA



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikepetro]

I Second it- infomercial, selective science ... perfect pitch for FDA
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You obviously have not read much of the actual material, including my own testing, and "I" am not associated with any commercial venture. The main studies done were also not associated with any commercial venture. In fact, one of them is a very pro-vape PHD from Penn State who is very well respected on this forum.

 

[mattiem]

You obviously have not read much of the actual material, including my own testing, and "I" am not associated with any commercial venture. The main studies done were also not associated with any commercial venture. In fact, one of them is a very pro-vape PHD from Penn State who is very well respected on this forum.

I have followed this thread from the very first post and I for one think you are doing a great job. I've not tried TC yet but if/when I do I will be thanking you for all the information you have shared with all of us.

For all the folks that stop in here and come away with "the sky is falling" thoughts.....It is not....Vaping is still healthier than smoking. Notice I did not say healthy. Vaping may not be 100% safe but that can be said about everything in this world. Mike has shown that vaping can possibly be made safer. That to me is a win/win situation.

Thank you @mikepetro

 

[St1flerSteve]

Can I just ask a question. I have read all the information and looked through the whole post.

As an engineer my self this can not be accurate for example I run a dead rabbit RDA with ss flaptons.

But if I was to run the same coils in the csment wide open or the drop RDA wide open the temperature of the coils will be completely different. And so will the position of the build as this can not always be the same unless they are made by machine but then there will always be a 1% conflict due to human error (a computer is only as good as it's programmer)

Also the way that all coils are made are actually different for example kanthal is not always 100% pure or a mixed coil with ss.

This is also the same with pre made coils and sub tanks the baby beast has more of an airflow than that of the celito exo.

Also dependant on where the coils are produced or what they are handled with.

What I am trying to get at is that every tank RDA coil cotton airflow power mod device is different.

There for are these results not assumed in the hole range an estimate for example or an average not whole.

 

[redeuce]

Next up is a study of whether the food grade flavorings which are fda approved for oral consumption, are harmful when Vaped into the lungs.

 

[AzPlumber]

Can I just ask a question. I have read all the information and looked through the whole post.

As an engineer my self this can not be accurate for example I run a dead rabbit RDA with ss flaptons.

But if I was to run the same coils in the csment wide open or the drop RDA wide open the temperature of the coils will be completely different. And so will the position of the build as this can not always be the same unless they are made by machine but then there will always be a 1% conflict due to human error (a computer is only as good as it's programmer)

Also the way that all coils are made are actually different for example kanthal is not always 100% pure or a mixed coil with ss.

This is also the same with pre made coils and sub tanks the baby beast has more of an airflow than that of the celito exo.

Also dependant on where the coils are produced or what they are handled with.

What I am trying to get at is that every tank RDA coil cotton airflow power mod device is different.

There for are these results not assumed in the hole range an estimate for example or an average not whole.

Did you read any of the posts/blogs about TC (temperature control)?

 

[drmarble]

Can I just ask a question. I have read all the information and looked through the whole post.

As an engineer my self this can not be accurate for example I run a dead rabbit RDA with ss flaptons.

But if I was to run the same coils in the csment wide open or the drop RDA wide open the temperature of the coils will be completely different. And so will the position of the build as this can not always be the same unless they are made by machine but then there will always be a 1% conflict due to human error (a computer is only as good as it's programmer)

Also the way that all coils are made are actually different for example kanthal is not always 100% pure or a mixed coil with ss.

This is also the same with pre made coils and sub tanks the baby beast has more of an airflow than that of the celito exo.

Also dependant on where the coils are produced or what they are handled with.

What I am trying to get at is that every tank RDA coil cotton airflow power mod device is different.

There for are these results not assumed in the hole range an estimate for example or an average not whole.

The variations in coil temperature when running in watts mode, or a mech, are well known. That is why Mike uses a DNA mod which accurately controls the temperature within 10 degrees. Folks not using TC have to guess their coil temperatured. Mike's experiments show the aldehydes produced at coil temperatures, which is very useful information.

 

[St1flerSteve]

The variations in coil temperature when running in watts mode, or a mech, are well known. That is why Mike uses a DNA mod which accurately controls the temperature within 10 degrees. Folks not using TC have to guess their coil temperatured. Mike's experiments show the aldehydes produced at coil temperatures, which is very useful information.

I'm not saying it's not use full and yes DNA are very close however once again they are not always 100% the same due to human error once again I could have one DNA mod that is 10% and one that is 15% they are never the same due to the human that has programmed the code for the batch of chips. The same as computer hardware I can have two graphics cards both from the same manufacturer both from the same hole seller however one can handle more heat than the other or one can be program overclocked more than the other.

 

[St1flerSteve]

Did you read any of the posts/blogs about TC (temperature control)?

Yes I did just nothing is perfect and no one is perfect and no results are either my friend

 

[440BB]

Can I just ask a question.

What is the question?

 

[DPLongo22]

Next up is a study of whether the food grade flavorings which are fda approved for oral consumption, are harmful when Vaped into the lungs.

Come back in 15-20 years, when the answer will be clear.

 

[St1flerSteve]

I'm not saying any of this research is not a good thing it's just that I see that due to all this information and there is alot to digest. There is still more information and research needed as like I said there are so many differences to consider. And this is one of the reasons the restrictions are all ready here to maintain structure and stability I suppose.
.

 

[Rossum]

Next up is a study of whether the food grade flavorings which are fda approved for oral consumption, are harmful when Vaped into the lungs.

At least one flavoring manufacturer (FlavourArt in Italy) has undertaken such studies and has put a number of their flavors in their "Kitchen Line", indicating that they should not be used for vaping based on their results.