New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

Status
Not open for further replies.

tiburonfirst

They call me 'Tibs"
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
26,883
260,345
Oh, you know things are going downhill when the frying pan comes out.
;)

all joking aside - don't trust your taste buds! and since indications are that vaping is less safe when temps surpass 450 degrees or so do not chain-vape with the same device! for that we have proof - i believe it was zoid who showed us how much faster tc kicks in when he was taking repeated puffs in short intervals.
 

Robino1

Resting in Peace
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
27,447
110,404
Treasure Coast, Florida
Kanthal a1? Coil diameter, wire gauge, wrap number? The coil mass and heat flux will need to be matched in order for the comparison to be as accurate as possible. Of course, they way you vape is important as well. How long of a draw, how many draws in a row, how long of a pause between draws, how hard of a draw.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
Less than 5 seconds and not that hard of a draw. Just a gentle pull. I'm really not worried anymore....I think o_O

Edit to add: I pretty much set the PV down between hits. Cuz I gotta have my hands on the keyboard LOL
 

Eskie

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 6, 2016
16,087
77,744
NY
Is anyone willing to test my kanthal build with SS on their TC mod? Pretty intimated with TC which is why I don't use it.

Thought I would just throw that out there. :D

Same gauge/wraps/wicking/juice and see if at a given wattage what that temp comes out as? To be somewhat reliable it should be same tank too so the only variable becomes the wire. And also how long you hold the fire button for. Then account for the difference in heat flux between Kanthal and SS.

It gets really complicated to make the comparison with any sort of reliability, and certainly not the kind of reliability I would base a decision regarding something as important as your health.

All wattage users, don't worry. There is nothing yet that says it's a danger. With proper testing maybe TC will make things worse when it comes to breakdown products (OK, hard to imagine, but that's the point of an experiment, to find out the result). Maybe SS will accelerate production greater than Kanthal (remember Wang saying the SS chamber may have also contributed, possibly through a catalytic process?). Maybe Strawberry Ripe inhibits aldehyde production (I hope so, I'm vaping a nice strawberry custardy juice as I try to type).

There are still many unknowns. The only thing I know is a Subtank at 25W and under looked pretty safe as far as producing aldehydes. But so what? Maybe the aledhydes are a red herring and there's something else that should be looked for that we're just not recognizing as important yet.

One thing is clear in every presentation from that meet up. Smoking is worse than vaping. By some measures a great deal, and by other a moderate amount. I'll still take vaping over a smoke.
 

Bonskibon

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 11, 2015
3,589
8,400
Same gauge/wraps/wicking/juice and see if at a given wattage what that temp comes out as? To be somewhat reliable it should be same tank too so the only variable becomes the wire. And also how long you hold the fire button for. Then account for the difference in heat flux between Kanthal and SS.

It gets really complicated to make the comparison with any sort of reliability, and certainly not the kind of reliability I would base a decision regarding something as important as your health.

All wattage users, don't worry. There is nothing yet that says it's a danger. With proper testing maybe TC will make things worse when it comes to breakdown products (OK, hard to imagine, but that's the point of an experiment, to find out the result). Maybe SS will accelerate production greater than Kanthal (remember Wang saying the SS chamber may have also contributed, possibly through a catalytic process?). Maybe Strawberry Ripe inhibits aldehyde production (I hope so, I'm vaping a nice strawberry custardy juice as I try to type).

There are still many unknowns. The only thing I know is a Subtank at 25W and under looked pretty safe as far as producing aldehydes. But so what? Maybe the aledhydes are a red herring and there's something else that should be looked for that we're just not recognizing as important yet.

One thing is clear in every presentation from that meet up. Smoking is worse than vaping. By some measures a great deal, and by other a moderate amount. I'll still take vaping over a smoke.
I was kinda kidding, kinda not.... :) Your right though need the same tank and I will be doing this this weekend. I think I'm safe with my Toptank (pretty much the same as the Subtank), but going to test anyways just for my own piece of mind. I copied all the information people have given me to do this so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get it right and know for sure.
 

KenD

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 20, 2013
5,396
9,257
48
Stockholm, Sweden
kennetgranholm.com
Take 15 or 20 vapers with a variety of setups that they are actually using. The brand new build is tested then they show up every day or two and have their setups sampled for bad stuff. Either it starts appearing before the dry puff or it doesn't. If none of the setups produce untastable bad stuff that would be good evidence that taste is strong protection. If any of them produce concerning quantities that can't be tasted we know it can happen so other guidelines or limitations need to be established to avoid a hazard we can't taste. Why hasn't this been done already? If it has who did it and what were the results?
Studies need financing (very expensive, even when not dealing with any subjects at all), and getting financing is difficult (and getting more and more difficult). Anything related to vaping simply isn't very high on the agenda of those providing financing. Plus research involving human subjects isn't easy to get approved. It isn't as easy as simply doing a study.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
 

cigatron

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
May 14, 2014
3,213
13,374
clinton ar
just a thought: Silica wicks would be the way to go? They do not burn.

Might have to get out the little bit I have from years ago....

Or maybe Ready-X-Wick ceramic wick.
Really tho, the concern isn't so much about burning wicks as it is about overheating ejuice.
 

KenD

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 20, 2013
5,396
9,257
48
Stockholm, Sweden
kennetgranholm.com
Well maybe I'm misunderstanding stuff which is most likely the case. My mind is pretty much mush right now over this whole thing. :(
I don't think you have much reason to be worried. Even in a worst case scenario you're getting way less harmful chemicals than you would from smoking, and that you do from simply inhaling air with normal levels of pollution.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
 

Zutankhamun

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 22, 2015
3,535
10,062
36
Rapture
Okay. So I have had a quick browse of the PHE study which was taken in 2015

From a quick read of page 76 (I think) it is reported that aldehydes are not present in elevated levels unless high wattage/wicking results in a dry burn.

I would suggest that people read this report in its entirety to make your judgement.
This is just an update and I cannot remember whether the full report is substantially different.

This is the report which I place my trust for the time being. Should a review which examines heats in excess of 450F appear, perhaps my opinion will change.

Editing to add link (by Robino1): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...mmissioned_by_Public_Health_England_FINAL.pdf

Thanks robino1 :)
 
Last edited:

Katya

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
34,804
120,147
SoCal
Okay, is there data that cartos in that state were emitting aldehydes? Are they "burnt" or is that an accumulation of unvaporized solids? I never used cartos, aside from my first few disposables, so I don't really know what they tasted like.

:lol:

WE studied it, Les. Tibs and yours truly and so many others. ;)

WE vaped, and dissected, and analyzed, and sent samples to laboratories for testing. For years. Until fillerless clearos appeared on the scene and we thought we were safe. :headbang:
 

Robino1

Resting in Peace
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
27,447
110,404
Treasure Coast, Florida
I don't think you have much reason to be worried. Even in a worst case scenario you're getting way less harmful chemicals than you would from smoking, and that you do from simply inhaling air with normal levels of pollution.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
That's pretty much how I am viewing this. I can hold my breath for the length of the pool and back, I no longer get bronchitis, I can exercise and have only gone to the doctor for wellness checks. I am not on any medication, I don't even take over the counter stuffs. Not even tylenol or aleve.
 

KenD

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 20, 2013
5,396
9,257
48
Stockholm, Sweden
kennetgranholm.com
just a thought: Silica wicks would be the way to go? They do not burn.

Might have to get out the little bit I have from years ago....
Silica would allow the liquid to reach higher temperatures before you'd notice a burn, I'd think. At least that's my experience when thinking of my early comparisons between cotton and silica as wicking material.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPLongo22

Robino1

Resting in Peace
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
27,447
110,404
Treasure Coast, Florida
^^^^^^
@Robino1

Am I okay with posting that study in regards to breaching copyright?
Less than I think ??? Words Let me look that up. Please post the link to the article and you should be good to go. You are well within the word limit though.
 

Robino1

Resting in Peace
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
27,447
110,404
Treasure Coast, Florida
^^^^^^
@Robino1

Am I okay with posting that study in regards to breaching copyright?


From the official rules:

7. Copyright
a. Do not post articles in their entirety that are published elsewhere. This is breach of copyright.
b. You must not post material on this Website that you do not own the copyright to. Only one paragraph or 300 words from an article/blog/resource elsewhere may be posted, whichever is the greater, and a link should be given to the original source (unless it is republished under a Fair Use agreement, which you must define).
 

Zutankhamun

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 22, 2015
3,535
10,062
36
Rapture
From the official rules:

7. Copyright
a. Do not post articles in their entirety that are published elsewhere. This is breach of copyright.
b. You must not post material on this Website that you do not own the copyright to. Only one paragraph or 300 words from an article/blog/resource elsewhere may be posted, whichever is the greater, and a link should be given to the original source (unless it is republished under a Fair Use agreement, which you must define).

All seems a bit much for me...;)

Imo. We're fine. Can you get rid of that post for me please :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPLongo22

Robino1

Resting in Peace
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
27,447
110,404
Treasure Coast, Florida
All seems a bit much for me...;)

Imo. We're fine. Can you get rid of that post for me please :)

How about I just add the link? I think that information is important. Especially to those that may be newer and really should have that link to that report.
 

Zutankhamun

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 22, 2015
3,535
10,062
36
Rapture
How about I just add the link? I think that information is important. Especially to those that may be newer and really should have that link to that report.

Hey. Your the boss ;)
Whatever you think keeps me out of trouble...

Other than that. Everyone google PHE ecigarette full study.
That official report is what I base my opinions on today.
 

Robino1

Resting in Peace
ECF Veteran
Sep 7, 2012
27,447
110,404
Treasure Coast, Florida
Hey. Your the boss ;)
Whatever you think keeps me out of trouble...

Other than that. Everyone google PHE ecigarette full study.
That official report is what I base my opinions on today.
Added the link (to keep you safe ;) )

hope it's the right link..... :unsure:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread