New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

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dobroeutro

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Ok I'm not even close to finishing this thread but I'm giving up on it. You TC fanboys are worse than what some here claimed provape fans are.

Yeah, I hate those guys. Oops, wait... :shock:

Happily vaping... :D
eVic VTwo Mini/Cubis, .5ohm stock coil, custom TCR 135 @ 25w/450F
Aspire NX75-A/Serpent Mini, .3ohm 24g 3mm SS316L coil, @25w/400F
Wismec Presa75/NarDa clone, .4ohm 24g 3mm SS316L coil, @ 25w/420F

I meant those other guys, yeah, that's the ticket...:cool:
 

Imfallen_Angel

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And yeah, that's a problem. It was not set up in the standard "vape" setting of a coil of wire around a wick and heated up as too many complaints about how the "chosen" wire/wick setup wasn't representative of average setups in use. They tried to sidestep that by going the "device independent" route, but have not shown how the temperatures they tested at maps to actual vape gear.

True, and also, the goal of vaping is to convert the liquid is an aerosol as fast (ad as much for them cloud chasers) as possible.. and not just heating it to ludicrous temperatures. Once the liquid is in aerosol form, we're "done" with it as far as the heating it is concerned, we aren't submitting this mist to even more heat.
 

cigatron

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Well, that's my question, if your coil is at 490, does that mean that the liquid itself is actually reaching 490? I don't know the science behind this so I'm actually asking, but from what I've been reading the temperature of a liquid usually only exceeds its boiling point if it is under greater than average air pressure. Something just isn't clicking in my head.
I don't know if when the liquid passes through a 470° coil it rises in temp to 470° before converting to a vapor, as it's being converted or at all. I suspect it is rising to that temp because if it weren't it would rob heat from the coil and my tc mod would just keep throwing more power at it until it did.

I don't know the science either.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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Agreed, something doesnt quite make sense. Nonetheless I can taste differences of just 20 degrees in my vape. Could we be superheating the vapor after it is produced?
nah.. it's starting to cool the moment it's a micrometer away from the coil. Even with stacked coils setups, the mist is moving too fast and is being pushed away from the second coil as it passes.

If it didn't, we'd all be burning our mouths and airways even at the lowest temp.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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I don't know if when the liquid passes through a 470° coil it rises in temp to 470° before converting to a vapor, as it's being converted or at all. I suspect it is rising to that temp because if it weren't it would rob heat from the coil and my tc mod would just keep throwing more power at it until it did.

I don't know the science either.

nah, it's vaporized instantly and pulls the heat away from the coil.. the only way that the liquid would even come close to the actual heat "reading" would be under a pressurized environment, and basically unless you have a device that is made to withstand these pressures... BOOM.

Basically how steam engines work.
 

Eskie

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nah.. it's starting to cool the moment it's a micrometer away from the coil. Even with stacked coils setups, the mist is moving too fast and is being pushed away from the second coil as it passes.

If it didn't, we'd all be burning our mouths and airways even at the lowest temp.

Yup, once it leaves the surface of the coil, it will continue to cool as you draw it through the chamber, chimney, and DT to your mouth. It's at the wire/liquid boundary where pyrolysis will occur.

Oh, and let's not forget the metal involved is also important. Different potential catalytic reactions depending on that too.
 
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cigatron

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nah, it's vaporized instantly and pulls the heat away from the coil.. the only way that the liquid would even come close to the actual heat "reading" would be under a pressurized environment, and basically unless you have a device that is made to withstand these pressures... BOOM.

Basically how steam engines work.

Haha. Yeah, somehow the liquid enters the wick, passes through a hot wick, travels through a 470° coil and never reaches 470°, all the while not forcing my mod to increase power levels due to cooling?
 

Imfallen_Angel

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To be a bit more detailed about this, as it's an interesting question...

I don't know if when the liquid passes through a 470° coil it rises in temp to 470° before converting to a vapor,

The high heat of the coil creates a "cushion" of radiating heat that the liquid absords so rapidly that it breaks it into micro droplets (basically: mist), it's part of energy transfer physics 101. This transfer of energy is very powerful, so the mist is going to be moving very fast at that point. But, there's a limit of how much of this energy that can be absorbed by the liquid's molecules as the moment it's got enough to be made into a mist, it's getting the hell out of dodge and will NOT absorb any more of the heat transfered energy.

as it's being converted or at all.
Think of it as an printer that works via piezo-electric system.. the ink is turned into micro-droplets as a spray onto the paper. The ink doesn't change, it doesn't turn to ash or anything, but thie piezo-electric system is actually zapping this ink as an amazingly high current, basically superheating it, but it still doesn't break the ink down. So it's not being converted, it's being "excited" to push itself apart into droplets.

I suspect it is rising to that temp because if it weren't it would rob heat from the coil and my tc mod would just keep throwing more power at it until it did.

I don't know the science either.

And no, it only hits the "temp" (or energy level) needed to push itself into this mists, and this energy/action pushes it away from the coil, and replaced by the cooler liquid, and so, as long as you feed it, the energy that you're transferring from the batteries to the coil, which is transferred to the liquid is being pushing into making the liquid feed to it into mist, providing a cooling effect.
 

CMD-Ky

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Ohhh !
I check my rayon wicks to make sure they didn't shrink or stretch out of the coil... and re-mush them in with 2 straight pins, one from each side - I kind of pick up a tad of wick with the pins and mush into the coil.
:)

I re-wicked a coil with a hot spot at the end of the coil. I used your method of tucking a a little rayon back into the coil. Problem solved. It never occurred to me that wick contact could be the problem.

Thanks again.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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Haha. Yeah, somehow the liquid enters the wick, passes through a hot wick, travels through a 470° coil and never reaches 470°, all the while not forcing my mod to increase power levels due to cooling?

it just levels off, you aren't increasing power, you're feeding power to a continual action (as long as you have liquid that absorbs the heat energy)
 
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Imfallen_Angel

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The boiling point of Glycerol (VG) is 290 °C (554 °F; 563 K)
The boiling point of Propylene glycol is 188.2 °C (370.8 °F; 461.3 K)

So how can we say a high VG mix cant get to 470°F ?

Because we aren't slow cooking it under pressure, where's feeding it massive amount of heat energy that does that misting (that I've hopefully explained clearly enough in these last few posts) that cools it as it goes.

Think of it as a car or a refridgerator.. the engine gets really hot.. the coolants aren't ever as hot as the motor because the cooling system cools it while it's always in movement. If you didn't have that cooling system pump, well.. BOOM... some idea here.
 
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cigatron

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it just levels off, you aren't increasing power, you're feeding power to a continual action (as long as you have liquid that absorbs the heat energy)

I'm beginning to understand now........that I don't know jack snark about physics.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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Haha. Yeah, somehow the liquid enters the wick, passes through a hot wick, travels through a 470° coil and never reaches 470°, all the while not forcing my mod to increase power levels due to cooling?

it's all about energy transference.. between the liquid absorption rate and the cooling of the air flow, the amount of energy "wasted" is crazy.
 

Lessifer

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If there was a Definitive Temperature, would we Need 1,280 Posts to Post it?

;)

BTW - I'll take 412.7F in the ECF Lotto.
I know, I know. I just keep seeing "Don't go above XXX because that's when stuff is released" with the implication being that coil temp = liquid temp. That implication hasn't been established yet though, and it's important.

I'm taking 600F in the pool.
 
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