New York Post and a deadly vape pen

[Baditude]

Yes well I am just the messenger. This is what Aspire said and PBusardo recorded it. I'll try to find it. And I admit, I never heard of an Aspire battery explode before, just saying.

No need to find it for me, I'm quite familiar with that video.

What brand of battery brand are you aware of that has exploded while vaping? This information is rarely, if ever, reported in the press.

And judging from the links I provided above from Mooch's battery tests on Aspire batteries, Aspire is guilty of over-rating the specs of their batteries. How can that be considered "safe"?

 

[Eskie]

There is an old PBusardo video (2013?) visiting Aspire in China. The owner (Tony?) didn't trust the current market of lithium batteries for use for vaping. So he changed this by buying a controlling interest in the Yongdeli Battery Factory. And there they manufacture cells which are much safer and manufactured especially for vaping.

They did offer an 18650 INR battery 2,600 mAh. The rating was a little odd. Fine at 20A CDR but ok for vaping at 30A because it stayed under 70C on their test model although they stated it was not suitable for industrial use at that current, vaping only. I don't believe it's still manufactured or on the market. Last I saw of one was in 2015(?) that came with a Plato I bought of theirs. Nice little AIO design on the mod. No longer have the battery.

 

[BillW50]

No need to find it for me, I'm quite familiar with that video.

It wasn't that Yongdeli Battery Factory one, but much earlier.

What brand of battery brand are you aware of that has exploded while vaping? This information is rarely, if ever, reported in the press.

Efest cells has come up in the past.

And judging from the links I provided above from Mooch's battery tests on Aspire batteries, Aspire is guilty of over-rating the specs of their batteries. How can that be considered "safe"?

Mooch's rating and other people ratings are all different. For example, Mooch rated the Aspire 26650 at 30A. I rated it at 20A. And Aspire rated it also at 20A. Maybe Aspire decided they were too careful with their ratings and upped them up. How that can be safe? If they don't explode with a dead short, excessive dropping, pinching, tossing it in a fire, etc., I'd say that is pretty safe.

 

[Eskie]

I think part of the problem with batteries examined after an energetic thermal event is the wrappers are so damaged that it might not be possible to determine what it was, complicated by all the rewraps out there where who knows the original source of the can. That creates real headaches in trying to determine if there was some internal or external failure due to user error, device failure, etc. No lot number you can go back to examine samples of, and no trail of misbranded or overrated claims by the, I hate up use the term given the rewrap companies are third source supplied by whoever, manufacturer.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

There are a few incidents that were able to identify the make of the battery. I am open to the possibilities there may have been a fault with the cell itself as in a manufacturing defect. However, the probability is more likely something else contributed to the explosion.

 

[Eskie]

There are a few incidents that were able to identify the make of the battery. I am open to the possibilities there may have been a fault with the cell itself as in a manufacturing defect. However, the probability is more likely something else contributed to the explosion.

Almost certainly. But it would be nice to know as a just in case. Hard to imagine it was internal, but I would love to know over a bunch of incidents (I'll take the injured too, not enough lethal events to ever establish a pattern) what the brands were. That still almost certainly has nothing to do with an internal fault but if you find most of these occur with off brand batteries, you can then look at why they're so commonly purchased over brand name, and how that associates to both user knowledge of battery use in vaping, and the places that sell them instead of brand name units. How often have we read right here where a new user was sold some off brand or "specially for vape" battery? It would be helpful in estimating the average vaping knowledge of those experiencing an event, as well as how vape shops are performing in stocking and selling safer items for sale.

Let's face it. In this case in TX the user was clearly new to vaping. I don't know about the other fatality case in FL. And if a wrap fails and a short happens for whatever reason, the venting of the battery will occur no matter who made it, but I'd like to know. If you want to prevent these things from happening you really need to ask the questions to figure out where solutions might or might not work.

 

[BillW50]

Well I know Eskie, that Efest buys substandard cells from Sony, Panasonic, etc. Cells that didn't make it to the manufacture's standards. They are probably meant to be recycled or something. But Efest buys them and resells them to vapers. I have no idea why any vape shop or even Mooch ever bothers with them at all. These cells are completely dangerous. Even if they pass Mooch's tests, it doesn't mean those are the same brand that you had purchased.

There is one type of cell that is very safe and very tough to make them explode. I wish they were more commonly used. They are LiFePO4 cells. And they come in 18650 size too and can be recharged thousands of times and can have higher current rating than the ones vapers tends to buy. Although only boards with a DNA200, 250, or 250C or a mech are the only ones I know that can use them. You have to use EScribe and select that type from the battery list. Although all mod manufactures could use them if they wanted to. Besides costing a bit more, the other con is capacity. Only about half of the capacity from what most uses.

 

[Mooch]

Yes well I am just the messenger. This is what Aspire said and PBusardo recorded it. I'll try to find it. And I admit, I never heard of an Aspire battery explode before, just saying.

That doesn’t guarantee that their cells are any safer. It can just mean they sell a lot fewer cells than anyone else. The failure rate numbers are critical for conclusions like this...which don't exist unfortunately.

I have never seen someone using an Aspire battery. We certainly couldn’t conclude that no one uses Aspire batteries from that.

 

[Mooch]

It wasn't that Yongdeli Battery Factory one, but much earlier.

Efest cells has come up in the past.

Mooch's rating and other people ratings are all different. For example, Mooch rated the Aspire 26650 at 30A. I rated it at 20A. And Aspire rated it also at 20A. Maybe Aspire decided they were too careful with their ratings and upped them up. How that can be safe? If they don't explode with a dead short, excessive dropping, pinching, tossing it in a fire, etc., I'd say that is pretty safe.

Aspire batteries can’t explode from a hard short? Being tossed in a fire? Please provide the evidence for that.

But maybe I’m misunderstanding you?

 

[Mooch]

It wasn't that Yongdeli Battery Factory one, but much earlier.

Efest cells has come up in the past.

Mooch's rating and other people ratings are all different. For example, Mooch rated the Aspire 26650 at 30A. I rated it at 20A. And Aspire rated it also at 20A. Maybe Aspire decided they were too careful with their ratings and upped them up. How that can be safe? If they don't explode with a dead short, excessive dropping, pinching, tossing it in a fire, etc., I'd say that is pretty safe.

Aspire did not rate them at 20A. They said 20A was suitable and 30A was unsuitable. The rating is in between those two numbers. It could be 21A, it could be 29A. We don’t know.

What criteria did you use to set the rating at 20A?

 

[ScottP]

Aspire batteries can’t explode from a hard short? Being tossed in a fire? Please provide the evidence for that.

They are also faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

 

[BillW50]

They are also faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

No they are not, they are underachievers.

 

[BillW50]

That doesn’t guarantee that their cells are any safer. It can just mean they sell a lot fewer cells than anyone else. The failure rate numbers are critical for conclusions like this...which don't exist unfortunately.

I have never seen someone using an Aspire battery. We certainly couldn’t conclude that no one uses Aspire batteries from that.

True, but they test them in environments that vapers use them in. If they fail, they are no good to be sold for vaping and doesn't get labelled as Aspire and are recycled.

 

[BillW50]

Aspire batteries can’t explode from a hard short? Being tossed in a fire? Please provide the evidence for that.

But maybe I’m misunderstanding you?

I didn't say can't explode from a hard short or being tossed in a fire. But what I was saying if they did pass those tests, then it won't matter if the wrap has an exaggerated amp rating. As ratings only gauges performance, not safety.

Although speaking about how Aspire believes their cells are safer... they store new cells in a fireproof hot room for a couple of months for one. I believe this is super important test for vaping. As new cells can explode just sitting there doing nothing. Sure, thanks to quality control, these cells are rare. But nonetheless I feel it is very important to weed those very few away from vapers. For example, if Samsung did this for their Galaxy Note 7 batteries, I believe they wouldn't have had that small number of exploding cells.

Aspire does high load them too. I don't know the resistance, but they also sample test them by drilling a hole right threw them which shorts out all of the plates. If they catch on fire or explode they fail. And that whole lot of cells will likely be recycled. One might argue that they can't explode once the drill bit breaks the seal. Well that's true since there will be no pressure buildup.

 

[BillW50]

Aspire did not rate them at 20A. They said 20A was suitable and 30A was unsuitable. The rating is in between those two numbers. It could be 21A, it could be 29A. We don’t know.

Well yes that's true. But good to go at 20A and not good for 30A. I think most vapers would see this as a 20A cell. And Aspire recommends not going above this figure. Well that works for me.

What criteria did you use to set the rating at 20A?

Probably similar to yours. Cell temperature and battery sag are the important ones. Although I won't give a cell a pass for any current which causes the outside cell temperature to go over 50°C.

 

[Baditude]

Although speaking about how Aspire believes their cells are safer... they store new cells in a fireproof hot room for a couple of months for one. I believe this is super important test for vaping..

That sounds counter intuitive to me. Why expose a perfectly good cell to high heat? Hi heat exposure is deadly to batteries. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a battery that had been exposed to high heat for two hours, let alone for two months.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

As far as I am aware, I suspect every compliant cell manufacture performs a standard mandatory set of tests. Sometimes we can see these results in the spec sheets.

As for the Aspire, they are subjected to 7 days in the hot room, not 2 months. The temperature of the room was not mentioned (or I missed it) but it was cool enough for PB to walk into the room. (starts at around 39:00)

 

[englishmick]

Saw this on a vape vendor site from a well known large country and thought it was rather hilarious. They have to follow idiot rules to bring us the good stuff so I won't mention their name.

Battery Warning

WARNING: There is inherent risk with the use of any and all rechargeable batteries. Li-ion and Li-Po batteries are made for RC Cars, flashlights, and laptops, and not recommended for use in any other way. DO NOT use with e-cigarettes, vaporizers, or any other similar devices as these batteries were not designed for this type of usage. High drain batteries such as the ones found on this site are made for powering RC Cars, flashlights, and laptops and using them in any other way is dangerous as they consist of volatile and combustible components. Batteries are meant to be used within their recommended parameters and we cannot be held liable if used otherwise. The electronic devices we put for sale are for decorative purposes only. Do not put any battery or power up these decorative products, as it may fire or explode. Use at your own risk.

 

[Eskie]

Saw this on a vape vendor site from a well known large country and thought it was rather hilarious. They have to follow idiot rules to bring us the good stuff so I won't mention their name.

Battery Warning

WARNING: There is inherent risk with the use of any and all rechargeable batteries. Li-ion and Li-Po batteries are made for RC Cars, flashlights, and laptops, and not recommended for use in any other way. DO NOT use with e-cigarettes, vaporizers, or any other similar devices as these batteries were not designed for this type of usage. High drain batteries such as the ones found on this site are made for powering RC Cars, flashlights, and laptops and using them in any other way is dangerous as they consist of volatile and combustible components. Batteries are meant to be used within their recommended parameters and we cannot be held liable if used otherwise. The electronic devices we put for sale are for decorative purposes only. Do not put any battery or power up these decorative products, as it may fire or explode. Use at your own risk.

That's their total warning? Doesn't sound specific enough or long enough to guarantee them indemnification if taken to court. It needs to be at least 5 pages long in teeny tiny print to really hold up. Sorta like a cellphone contract, or clicking yes to installing Windows or something. The software companies have that part down pat. If only their programmers were as good as their lawyers.

 

[BillW50]

That sounds counter intuitive to me. Why expose a perfectly good cell to high heat? Hi heat exposure is deadly to batteries. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a battery that had been exposed to high heat for two hours, let alone for two months.

No and who would? But if it wasn't tested, then the cell might explode, right? Of course it might. And do you want it to explode in your face? Of course not. And using Mooch's recommendations, your battery could reach 150°F or higher.

As far as I am aware, I suspect every compliant cell manufacture performs a standard mandatory set of tests. Sometimes we can see these results in the spec sheets.

Is Efest one of those compliant cell manufactures? I don't recall them having any spec sheets. And I have the one for the Samsung 25R. There is no mention of any heat test, except the max temperature the cell gets when excessively charging or discharging.

As for the Aspire, they are subjected to 7 days in the hot room, not 2 months. The temperature of the room was not mentioned (or I missed it) but it was cool enough for PB to walk into the room. (starts at around 39:00

Okay thanks for the correction. I recall two months for something, I thought it was this. And I recall they don't release freshly manufactured cells for at least the first 2 months. Or is this wrong too?