New York Post and a deadly vape pen

[ScottP]

This is only half right i.e., Always check your wraps. Yes. As for battery orientation, there is no single best battery orientation for mechs. Different mechs have different designs and you should orient the battery accordingly. If you are unsure, find out.

Sort of true. The only way to safely orient a tube style with the positive end down is to either use an insulated battery sleeve or make sure the bottom of the battery connects to the circuit via a wire and NOT the tube body. If the mods was designed this way with bottom vent holes then sure. Are there a lot of mechs designed this way?

 

[AttyPops]

I think we are picking at unnecessary specifics here. In the end it is absolutely critical our battery wraps are in pristine condition.

In a "standard" mech with +up orientation, technically, the wrapping is irrelevant for the purposes of discussion (although literally, yes, make sure the wrap is intact).

The shell of the battery is ground ( - ). The body of the mod is ground. No problem.
That's not the case the other way around.

It's not nit picking, it's physics.

And given the flimsy state of battery wraps, plus the fact that batteries slide around inside a mech, I'm 100% with ScottP....put positive up, with the possible exception of a mech that is designed to vent out the bottom button, then talk to the manufacturer and see if there is a plastic insert that can be used as an extra layer of safety.

I wouldn't personally use or even allow in my house a mech what was designed to have the body be + unless I knew its design was proper...and I suspect most of the people putting plus-down are using mechs without the added design features. Wraps or no wraps.

EDIT:
But to reitterate: You have to weigh the design of the mech against the higher risk of catastrophic failure with a +down orientation. Gap around the battery, venting hole locations, etc. The +down vents AWAY from your face. That's a good thing, but if the orientation increases the odds of a short, IDK how you balance that out. The bottom line is that I don't trust a mil or so of wrap to be my only safeguard.

EDIT2:
Wraps are not irrelevant in general, so always make sure the wrap is fully intact and in fantastic condition regardless of orientation.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

In a "standard" mech with +up orientation, technically, the wrapping is irrelevant for the purposes of discussion (although literally, yes, make sure the wrap is intact).

The shell of the battery is ground ( - ). The body of the mod is ground. No problem.
That's not the case the other way around.

It's not nit picking, it's physics.

I understand the physics, I understand your point, but I have to disagree that the wrapping is irrelevant in any situation, mech or circuit based. It is not always about the battery being in the fixed position. Batteries entering a device also pose a risk as do batteries that are handled outside the device. But just stating the wrap is irrelevant if used in + up orientation within a tube mech, you are inviting the use of torn wraps even if that is not your intent. And I do not agree with that.

 

[AttyPops]

you are inviting the use of torn wraps even if that is not your intent. And I do not agree with that.

Well, I wasn't actually inviting that, I mean I did add "is irrelevant for the purposes of discussion (although literally, yes, make sure the wrap is intact)" to the post for that reason.

I'm not advocating anyone ever use a battery with a bad wrapper. So we agree on that.

 

[ScottP]

It's not irrelevant at all. As I mentioned a torn wrap in a + up tube mech with bottom fire can bypass the fire button and cause it to fire all the time. It just won't cause a direct short like this.

 

[MMW]

It's not irrelevant at all. As I mentioned a torn wrap in a + up tube mech with bottom fire can bypass the fire button and cause it to fire all the time. It just won't cause a direct short like this.

Spot on. It will autofire and will get hot stressing the battery if not caught in time.

With positive down the circuit gets completed from the button to the torn wrapper/body of mod with near zero resistance, pulling way too much from the battery in a flash.

 

[F-machine]

Feel really sad guys. Both videos were from The Philippines. I was born and raised there. Last time I went back to visit, I saw vaping is very popular there. But as I tried to roam around shops, hoping to grab something, I ended up really disappointed. More than half of available mods and attys offered to me were copies or clone. They were honest enough to tell me though, but I didn't buy anything. Genuine products were expensive and it's actually cheaper if I buy from here(Taipei). I have no qualms about clones... But the rabbit hole or learning for every new vaper just gets deeper and deeper as clones and fakes adds up to the equation.

EDIT: This is a couple of months back, also from PH

He's alive, but obviously not alright. All front teeth, gone. Tongue split in half and will be needing jaw reconstruction. Story goes that they bought second hand batteries online. (He asked his son to search online) IIRC, the battery has some flaws or peeled wrap. No one witnessed what happened, no videos etc. His mom came home and saw him lying on the floor, bleeding. He's also new to vaping. Really sad.

 

[jandrew]

I think there are simply too many people here (and in other current threads) with little to no actual experience using mechs offering blanket advice on mech safety. To the point at which at least one user above (New York Post and a deadly vape pen) is now thinking that battery +UP is logically better even in their mech squonker which they say is clearly marked +down and has vent holes in the bottom.

 

[AttyPops]

It's not irrelevant at all. As I mentioned a torn wrap in a + up tube mech with bottom fire can bypass the fire button and cause it to fire all the time. It just won't cause a direct short like this.

Fair enough, but it's irrelevant to the direct short point. There's still a coil resistance between the + and -.

The point about the torn wrap is the direct SHORT, not "constant on". As I said, always use a battery with an intact wrap.

What I said was that it was irrelevant TO THE POINT UNDER DISCUSSION (the direct short).

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Well, I wasn't actually inviting that, I mean I did add "is irrelevant for the purposes of discussion (although literally, yes, make sure the wrap is intact)" to the post for that reason.

I'm not advocating anyone ever use a battery with a bad wrapper. So we agree on that.

I fully understand your intentions are sound and that you are not inviting the use of torn wraps. But that is me….how does someone else interpret your comments. I am just not comfortable with the term “the wrap is irrelevant” and thought that should be addressed for the sake of clarification.

 

[Zazie]

1) I like your sig.

It's great, isn't it?

 

[AttyPops]

I fully understand your intentions are sound and that you are not inviting the use of torn wraps. But that is me….how does someone else interpret your comments. I am just not comfortable with the term “the wrap is irrelevant” and thought that should be addressed for the sake of clarification.

You guys are not reading, not following, and are creating straw-man arguments.

I did NOT say wraps are irrelevant. I said that the condition of the wrap on a +up orientation doesn't cause a direct short. That's all.

If people can't read, that doesn't let you evade the point. The point is that the +down orientation "invites" a direct short situation with only a few mills of insulation around the battery. Nearly the WHOLE battery.

On the bonus side, the +down orientation puts the venting at the bottom.

EDIT: But if you're worried about someone misreading it, I'll edit and make sure to clarify.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

You guys are not reading, not following, and are creating straw-man arguments.

I did NOT say wraps are irrelevant. I said that the condition of the wrap on a +up orientation doesn't cause a direct short. That's all.

If people can't read, that doesn't let you evade the point. The point is that the +down orientation "invites" a direct short situation with only a few mills of insulation around the battery. Nearly the WHOLE battery.

On the bonus side, the +down orientation puts the venting at the bottom.

EDIT: But if you're worried about someone misreading it, I'll edit and make sure to clarify.

I am not trying to create a straw man argument. I stated that I understood your intentions are sound and that you are not trying to invite the use of torn wraps. I understand your comments. Can we say the same for a new user who may have ended up on this thread looking for information? Not trying to debate this, just expressing a clarification for all to understand.

 

[AttyPops]

Fair enough.

The big debate, if I even used a mech, would be "Did the manufacturer really engineer this and test this with their recommended battery orientation?" Particularly if +down. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a battery vent away from me. Even my regulated mod is designed that way. Fine.

With +up, I have extra worry about the top blowing off, although I assume it can happen with either orientation, and that it WILL happen with a poorly or not-vented mod.

I just think that although the rule of "always use batteries with sound wraps" is a good one, it's also a crutch. There's much more to think about. Device design in general, center pin design on the connector, insulators, venting holes, tube diameter, orientation of the battery, and probably 50 others. Which are design issues, some other issues are user-issues like checking wraps, using proper batteries, etc.

 

[Rossum]

Anyone know how many vapers have a mech as their primary-use vape? Any rough ballparks? Sure, many OWN one, but that's not the same thing.

Based on what I see on ECF, and during the occasional vape-shop visit (which is pretty rare these days), I would speculate it's very few; probably less than 10%. The exception tends to be the curmudgeonly types like me who bought high-quality mech mods (often squonkers) that they intend to use for the rest of their lives.

Back when I started vaping a (a bit more than five years ago), a big reason people used mechs was because there were no regulated mods that could produce more than 15-20 watts. If you wanted more than that, a mech was the really the only way. In addition, decent regulated mods were relatively expensive (~$200 or so for a Provari or DNA20) while you could buy a clone tube mech for $25-$50. But that's no longer the case. The the market is now flooded with 200 watt (or more!) regulated mods at crazy cheap prices. Of course they're are made of the finest chinesium and will not last, but that doesn't seem to matter much; most people appear to be perfectly willing to throw away and replace as often as necessary.

Cool info. But if Juul has ?70%? of today's market.........

70% of the c-store/gas-station market, yes. But the over-all vaping market, no way.

 

[ScottP]

most people appear to be perfectly willing to throw away and replace as often as necessary.

That is because most people constantly chase "the latest and greatest" so they are buying something new all the time anyway. So if something breaks no biggie. I am the opposite I will spend weeks researching and buy something that at least SHOULD last a long while.

 

[AttyPops]

Based on what I see on ECF, and during the occasional vape-shop visit (which is pretty rare these days), I would speculate it's very few; probably less than 10%. The exception tends to be the curmudgeonly types like me who bought high-quality mech mods (often squonkers) that they intend to use for the rest of their lives.

Back when I started vaping a (a bit more than five years ago), a big reason people used mechs was because there were no regulated mods that could produce more than 15-20 watts. If you wanted more than that, a mech was the really the only way. In addition, decent regulated mods were relatively expensive (~$200 or so for a Provari or DNA20) while you could buy a clone tube mech for $25-$50. But that's no longer the case. The the market is now flooded with 200 watt (or more!) regulated mods at crazy cheap prices. Of course they're are made of the finest chinesium and will not last, but that doesn't seem to matter much; most people appear to be perfectly willing to throw away and replace as often as necessary.


70% of the c-store/gas-station market, yes. But the over-all vaping market, no way.

That is because most people constantly chase "the latest and greatest" so they are buying something new all the time anyway. So if something breaks no biggie. I am the opposite I will spend weeks researching and buy something that at least SHOULD last a long while.

I tend to do that too. Yet, I can miss out on innovation that way too. So I think there's a balance and sweet-spot in the middle somewhere. If not so, we'd all sill be using kerosene lamps. Some people DO, but most take advantage of electricity.

P.S.
LED's rule. Very efficient. Not for everything, but for many things.

 

[BillW50]

The vaping community represents only a small fraction of the consumer base for lithium ion batteries. A manufacturer would have to question if it would be financially worthwhile to invest the R&D to make a safer lithium battery to be used for vaping.

The best batteries available to vapers are made by Lg, Samsung, Sanyo, and Sony/Murata. It's quite clear that they don't even want vapers to be using their batteries. They design them to be used only in battery packs with protected BMS (battery management systems) for the auto and power tool industry.

Now, Mooch has been in contact with a Chinese brand manufacturer who might be willing to create a safer battery specifically for vaping, but in a poll that Mooch created, most vapers who responded to the poll desired a better performing battery rather than a safer battery. So much for wanting safer batteries.

”Cheating” on the Molicel new battery poll...really?

There is an old PBusardo video (2013?) visiting Aspire in China. The owner (Tony?) didn't trust the current market of lithium batteries for use for vaping. So he changed this by buying a controlling interest in the Yongdeli Battery Factory. And there they manufacture cells which are much safer and manufactured especially for vaping.

 

[Baditude]

There is an old PBusardo video (2013?) visiting Aspire in China. The owner (Tony?) didn't trust the current market of lithium batteries for use for vaping. So he changed this by buying a controlling interest in the Yongdeli Battery Factory. And there they manufacture cells which are much safer and manufactured especially for vaping.

Say you and Aspire. I believe Mooch and I have had this debate with you before.

• Aspire Unrated 1800mAh 18650 Retest...now using a different battery, performs worse
• Aspire 20A 2500mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery
• Aspire 35A 3000mAh 18650...preposterously overrated, incorrect Aspire data, but they’re willing to rewrap

• Aspire 40A 4000mAh 21700...hugely overrated, incorrect Aspire data, rewrapping

• Aspire 4300mAh 26650...a great 30A battery but why unrated?

 

[BillW50]

Say you and Aspire. I believe Mooch and I have had this debate with you before.

• Aspire Unrated 1800mAh 18650 Retest...now using a different battery, performs worse
• Aspire 20A 2500mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery
• Aspire 35A 3000mAh 18650...preposterously overrated, incorrect Aspire data, but they’re willing to rewrap

• Aspire 40A 4000mAh 21700...hugely overrated, incorrect Aspire data, rewrapping

• Aspire 4300mAh 26650...a great 30A battery but why unrated?

Yes well I am just the messenger. This is what Aspire said and PBusardo recorded it. I'll try to find it. And I admit, I never heard of an Aspire battery explode before, just saying.