Single 316l for Sloth.boring but all I need
Rayon Wick - Better Flow, Flavor, Longevity, and Nic Hit!! - Pt.2
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Fused 316L Claptons in everything I can fit them in. Also boring when it only takes 10min to wind a stick long enough for 4 coils. I usually wind a few sticks per claptoning session and only replace my coils after maybe 2000 ml.
To me the flavor from claptons is marginally better than single strand and on par with twisted. Fused claptons are a step above in flavor. Aliens and other more complicated high mass wire is a waste of time to me because I'm not into coil porn.
To me the flavor from claptons is marginally better than single strand and on par with twisted. Fused claptons are a step above in flavor. Aliens and other more complicated high mass wire is a waste of time to me because I'm not into coil porn.
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That would seem to mirror my observation as well.. At least between twisted-rayon and clapton-rayon - in which twisted is what I mostly do, and have compared apples-to-apples with clapton. The only exception away from twisted is when I might use a thick gauge like 22. That's one thing I have to hand it to for the larger wire masses - nice and easy to pull a crap-ton of rayon through.
Just got to be careful of not pulling too much through in those cases.A somewhat common element of what you noticed above might seem to be the number of actual heating element wires that might produce more flavor. Or maybe more correctly, the surface area of the direct heating element wires.
For the people that say they do notice more flavor with claptons - hopefully compared to twisted.. Are you sure you're not comparing back to a time when you used cotton-single/twisted to now where you're using rayon-claptons?
I just can't help but think that it doesn't make a lick of difference with the extra non-heating-element wires of clapton, when it comes to rayon. It's my opinion that rayon should wick as fast as the direct-heating element wires can use it.
See my post above from Oct, 2015. I have been using Rayon since that post. I have only been using claptons and fused claptons for 6 months or so.
Re: Direct vs. Indirect heating I'm not sure about Hoggy. My fused 26g claptoned with 36g appear to turn color evenely when dry fired. It's hard to imagine there would be much difference in the temp of the core wires vs. the wrapped wire. The 36g wraps are in physical contact with the 26g cores and sink the heat from the cores quite well it seems. There may just be similar variations in temperature throughout the coil as with single strand and twisted.
One thing for sure is that fused claptons hold more juice than single strand, twisted or claptons. Maybe all those little hiding places cause the juice to pool in different quantities throughout the coil thereby resulting in different vapor temps when fired. Maybe that's causing the broader flavor spectrum.
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Elaborating on broadening the flavor spectrum:
I'll use my Lemon Cheese Cake juice as an example. Using TC with single strand wire I can alter the predominant flavor of my vape by changing the temp. Up 5° brings the Lemon forward in the flavor spectrum, down 5° brings out the graham cracker crust and down another 5° pushes the cream the front. The same can be accomplished with regulated devices without TC by changing the wattage setting slightly and to a lesser granularity with unregulated mods by altering the build. But still there is something missing with single strand and twisted builds, it seems that all those other complex flavor profiles that fused claptons produce are missing. Fused claptons just seem to bring out and blend together all those wonderful flavors; a less selective and more broad complex flavor profile.
To sum it all up, the flavor I'm experiencing using 316L SS fused claptons with rayon in my RDAs and some RDTAs is pretty much the same as just drinking the ejuice from the bottle, something I've never experienced with RTAs regardless of coil type, geometry or wicking medium.
I'll use my Lemon Cheese Cake juice as an example. Using TC with single strand wire I can alter the predominant flavor of my vape by changing the temp. Up 5° brings the Lemon forward in the flavor spectrum, down 5° brings out the graham cracker crust and down another 5° pushes the cream the front. The same can be accomplished with regulated devices without TC by changing the wattage setting slightly and to a lesser granularity with unregulated mods by altering the build. But still there is something missing with single strand and twisted builds, it seems that all those other complex flavor profiles that fused claptons produce are missing. Fused claptons just seem to bring out and blend together all those wonderful flavors; a less selective and more broad complex flavor profile.
To sum it all up, the flavor I'm experiencing using 316L SS fused claptons with rayon in my RDAs and some RDTAs is pretty much the same as just drinking the ejuice from the bottle, something I've never experienced with RTAs regardless of coil type, geometry or wicking medium.
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hehe, I thought the same. I usually toss coils after the 3rd or 4th re-wick so I go 400 - 500ml per coil, which can be 4 - 6 months for me with so many tanks in the rotation.TWO THOUSAND?
Drawing board, back, me.
That's my trick. I have eight devices in regular, daily, use depending on where I'm at, what I'm doing and my mood. That lets me keep usage fairly low on any one device and keeps rebuilding time down to a minimum. I usually only have to rebuild my stuff every six months or so, say a couple of hundred milliliters worth through each.
My wife uses, mainly three devices and a fairly sweet, gunky, liquid so I end up rebuilding her stuff about once a month. Not a big deal, say fifteen minute to wash, dry, coil, wick and fill once a month isn't bad at all.
My wife uses, mainly three devices and a fairly sweet, gunky, liquid so I end up rebuilding her stuff about once a month. Not a big deal, say fifteen minute to wash, dry, coil, wick and fill once a month isn't bad at all.
I keep trying to go back to my old tension microcoils, but I just can't break my fused claptons either. I've tried just about everything in terms of wire type and composition, wick types, etc. and nothing beats them.
From round to claptons I really don't notice enough to justify the added juice. I've always found twisted and tiger wire incredibly volatile and I avoid it entirely. Anything fancier than fused claptons (aliens "and up") isn't diminishing returns, it's lesser for more expense (in every sense of the word). Bear in mind I vape single coils exclusively. I definitely still see value in round builds for different configurations, I just really never bother anymore.
All about the fused, baby. It's the Goldilocks wire. Not too thirsty (juice) or hungry (power), not too rowdy, not too tame, juuuuuust right. And the flavour gains in my experience are just too big to ignore. 26/38-40ga. is generally my go-to.
From round to claptons I really don't notice enough to justify the added juice. I've always found twisted and tiger wire incredibly volatile and I avoid it entirely. Anything fancier than fused claptons (aliens "and up") isn't diminishing returns, it's lesser for more expense (in every sense of the word). Bear in mind I vape single coils exclusively. I definitely still see value in round builds for different configurations, I just really never bother anymore.
All about the fused, baby. It's the Goldilocks wire. Not too thirsty (juice) or hungry (power), not too rowdy, not too tame, juuuuuust right. And the flavour gains in my experience are just too big to ignore. 26/38-40ga. is generally my go-to.
3mm 26/36 4 wrap is my goto for 23-25mm RDAs. 38g is too hard for me to see and 40g is just invisible
I like 3mm coils because they take slightly less than the thickness of a rayon rope.
sounds like I need to pack more rayon in my coils. I usually wrap 3mm and split my rayon rope in half most times. Even at these specs I usually have to hold my spaced claptons (mostly 24/36 or 26/36 ss @ 7 wraps) with a finger/thumb when I am forcing the rayon thru it to prevent extreme deformation.
Absolutely, and when I build, say, a dual-core fused SS clapton in 26 gauge, I get a different flavor than I do using a quad-30 core SS fused clapton. Different coils seem to bring different elements out of the flavor.
Using parallel dual single-wire (non-clapton), I was actually able to singe my wicks a little bit pushing the setup to attempt to get the same flavor.
I look at the wrap wire in claptons as a heatsink more than anything else, but it also serves to distribute the heat to more fine contact points across the wick, and more slowly. This should result in less chance of burning the wick with the core wire; which is coming into contact with the wrap wire, which is cooled by the constantly saturated rayon wick.
As a chain-vaper, the drawback is that if you let the wick soak up too much of the excess heat after a series of draws (especially with thicker cores) you can/will cook your juice.
For my fused claptons, I add rayon to just a tiny bit past squeaky, but keep it resistant enough I can bend the ends of the tails down and see if there's gaps on either side of the edge. This appears to be a pretty reliable indicator for whether there's enough that it won't pull away.
If there's space, I add a few strands for extra measure to account for the break-in, but not much.
So, initial ml or two, there's a bit of extra sizzling, get a bit nervous and antsy... but then there's this point where the wicking settles, and is just so and you get nothing but what sounds like a super-saturated "Hsshshshsh" kind of noise, which I want to call "The Flavor Zone".
I initially took this odd noise as coil notifying me it needed more power, I was wrong; the wick can take so much abuse the coil will begin getting too hot when pushed too high.
Temperature also seems to make a huge difference, as some flavors like Vienna cream are easier to taste with lower wattage ramp-ups and don't taste the same at all with higher ones.
I usually just shuffle all of that into the "taste is subjective" category, but I definitely love the ease with which I can spin four fairly easy to accidentally twist up thin SS wires into a functional coil using 30g. Others I've made the wire for commented that it tastes good & works in TC, so I guess I've done it halfway right.
Some people use multiple strands of 30 or 32 and flatten it, but I find that post decks (and the coil itself) don't really like encountering flat, rigid wire. The end result is that while the surface area is greater, hot-spots are an utter pain to work out, and it's difficult to use without encountering controlled shorts which in turn make TC fail.
I'd probably be probably better off using ribbon instead, and that's not something I'm keen to start messing with for a little while. Not that I don't think it'd taste good, just that I feel there would be some similarities regarding how annoying it would be to work with.
When I read that cigatron was able to get almost a whole section of a rope in there, I was honestly surprised. When I overstuff my 3mm's it involves using over half of a split length of rope section, but again I use RTAs (and very hot coils) and I have to suppress my re-wick instinct before I check to see whether it's going to break in or if a few strands can be removed without me mangling it.
And twisted...I've tried it again with SS and find that even with the smallest twist pitch, it's just unruly and annoying. But that's just my take on it, and you never know, it might be good with rayon.
Not that you'll catch me building Alien wire any time soon. Adding cores seems to be the easiest (but probably not the most efficient) way, so using ribbon in the core is the next logical step for more surface area. There's enough wire types I forget what that one's called.
cigatron said:Our ropes are probably different thickness.
Hey, now. This isn't a rope-sizing contest.
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I dug out the old Stumpy and put a small SS316L 28g fused clapton in it (Z Coil). I have forgotten how great the flavor from the Stumpy is, squonking it on the Inbox at 460F/65W.
Too bad they are so scarce these days.
Too bad they are so scarce these days.
I'm assuming your talking about clapton build?....
I don't see how using ribbon as a core will increase surface area other than maybe making a oval shaped clapton. I have tried a twisted ribbon as a core but didn't like the results or any twisted wire as a core. I have pretty well stuck to single wire core and to build something like a alien or other large multiwire build I'd have to but a new atty cause the couple drippers I have are mighty old school and just fit a 26 gauge wire and no way they fit into a subtank RBA. I do remove the wraps up to the bottom of the first loop to get a better more stable reading in TC, without wraps shifting and/or getting in the way as your tightening down the wire or later when the wire heats then cools thus maybe also shifting the wraps at the set screws.
i do wish i'd seen this thread earlier! a couple of metres have been purchased
Welcome to the club! You've just been turned onto one of the more significant gains in vape quality out there. Have a setup working perfectly? Rewick with Rayon and get ready to be amazed. Do be patient to start, it can be a bit finicky working it out in the beginning because it requires almost an opposite approach to cotton. Drippers are dead easy, tanks will take some minor practice (and lots of tips in here for that).
Rayon has been such a revelation that I've developed some unusual quirks. First, I've become obsessed with trying every fancy wicking option out there just to see if anything can compare (so far, nope!). Second, I wick with cotton exclusively when I'm working out the ideal build on a new atty. Once I feel satisfied with the build, I rewick with rayon and basically experience what feels like a 50% boost in - like the title says - flow, flavour and nic hit. I'm keeping longevity separate since I get at least 300% more time out of my wick before needing a dryburn. Not only do the wicks stay clean longer, but the incredible wicking properties mean my COIL stays cleaner longer. My ADV is a sweetie, so this is a massive benefit.
and now i'm even more eager to get my hands on it! thanks for your info as always. will hopefully get it before the weekend...i shall report back.
e c f is spamming v a p i n g dot com again 
e c f is spamming v a p i n g dot com again
Yep, time to get creative with our words. Sigh.
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