Still smoking support and chat thread

[Thayamax]

Welcome, Timothy. Even after a year of not smoking I'm afraid to even try a single cigarette. What does that say about my confidence? I'm afraid 1 will lead to 2 and so on until I give up vaping altogether. Knowing me, that wouldn't take more that a week. Smoking is just too darn easy to fall back into.

None of us can say for sure we'll never smoke again. I've known people who've quit for 10 years and more who went back to it. I think that if I ever start to feel that way I might let my guard down and fall off the wagon. Just keep trying to cut down one at a time and/or go one day at a time. Don't quit quitting.

 

[etherealink]

Well that sounds great, I think. It's true that before I got sick, I was starting to move slightly away from tobacco flavor to a lot of different flavors, bakery and fruit flavors, but if I'm gonna get free of the real ones again, I need to substitute something that tastes similar, and gives me a similar feeling -- it's funny, I never noticed any particular feeling from smoking, at least not since I was 13 and still got head-spins just from lighting one up, but since I've been back to smoking, I've noticed, yes, there is an immediate feeling of some kind... It's not dizziness, I'm much too long-term a smoker to get that from my own cigarette, but it's something. A sense of relief, I think. It takes quite a while, in the morning when your blood nicotine is low-to-zero, to get that same sense of relief from vaping; I was having to vape 10.5mg, and do it mostly mouth/throat/nose, for about a half hour, to come anywhere close to that sense of satisfaction, relief, and maybe that is what is tripping me up now, my body/brain has rediscovered how easily it can get that feeling, from smoking. *sigh*

I'm doing a little better today, though. I may be able to stay *under* 10 cigarettes, which is moving in the right direction.

Andria

I understand what you mean about the first of the morning. For me in the beginning it had to be a dripper with a very heavy nicotine juice and some big lung hits to jumpstart the day.

Thankfully, I can say that it gets better over time and your body *does* get used to less nicotine.

Keep in mind that the average filtered cigarette brings about 1mg of nicotine over the whole thing, a lot of the "kick" comes from displacing the oxygen in your body as much as the nicotine and other chemicals.

Also, when you get to that "first of the morning" vape, try holding the vapor in your lungs as long as you can. That way your lungs can absorb more of the nicotine from your juice.

Just my opinion though lol [emoji16]

 

[etherealink]

how cool is that!!!! I have seen a few vapers on my trip, but one bunch ...... me off, we were at Kings dominion and in line for a roller coaster and they were blowing clouds all over the place (cloud chasers). enough that i could smell their vaper. I was vaping myself but was not being disrespectful. Even my sisters (whos husband vapes) said she did not understand why they were doing it....

Oh yeah, even as a cloud chaser at times I don't understand doing that in public when you're not with like minded people (and no, just your friends doesn't cut it).

Its as insulting as walking up to someone and blowing smoke their face. Certainly a teachable moment, not sure if I could restrain myself from slapping them silly though!

 

[AndriaD]

I understand what you mean about the first of the morning. For me in the beginning it had to be a dripper with a very heavy nicotine juice and some big lung hits to jumpstart the day.

Thankfully, I can say that it gets better over time and your body *does* get used to less nicotine.

Keep in mind that the average filtered cigarette brings about 1mg of nicotine over the whole thing, a lot of the "kick" comes from displacing the oxygen in your body as much as the nicotine and other chemicals.

Also, when you get to that "first of the morning" vape, try holding the vapor in your lungs as long as you can. That way your lungs can absorb more of the nicotine from your juice.

Just my opinion though lol [emoji16]

Actually, first thing in the morning, I can't inhale to my lungs at all -- I do use a higher mg, about 10.5mg, but I can barely get it to my throat enough for it to float up to my nose before the "cough up a lung" problem hits. Asthma is always worse when you first wake up, so I have to vape *very* carefully then, using the higher nic but zero throat hit ejuice. After about 30-45 mins, I've coughed enough and inhaled enough of my albuterol that I can vape "regular" style -- around 9mg-ish, good TH.

No way whatever I could use my dripper when I first wake up; I can barely tolerate it when my lungs are "regular," during the day, without getting the "cough up a lung," so I don't even think about the dripper when I first wake up -- I can't even use my kayfun then! have to wait about 30-45 mins before I can switch to the kayfun and get the TH that most of the time is so necessary to me.

But, I do try to "hold my breath" with the vapor in my nose, only letting it trickle out very slowly. I've found that the nic absorption from those kinds of "nose" hits is HUMONGOUS compared to nic absorption from the lungs. I always keep to about 6-7 mg after dinner, and one night I was practicing my "nose hits" while watching TV, and ended up giving myself the sharp stomach pains, from so much nicotine! Using 6-7 mg!

Andria

 

[etherealink]

Actually, first thing in the morning, I can't inhale to my lungs at all -- I do use a higher mg, about 10.5mg, but I can barely get it to my throat enough for it to float up to my nose before the "cough up a lung" problem hits. Asthma is always worse when you first wake up, so I have to vape *very* carefully then, using the higher nic but zero throat hit ejuice. After about 30-45 mins, I've coughed enough and inhaled enough of my albuterol that I can vape "regular" style -- around 9mg-ish, good TH.

No way whatever I could use my dripper when I first wake up; I can barely tolerate it when my lungs are "regular," during the day, without getting the "cough up a lung," so I don't even think about the dripper when I first wake up -- I can't even use my kayfun then! have to wait about 30-45 mins before I can switch to the kayfun and get the TH that most of the time is so necessary to me.

But, I do try to "hold my breath" with the vapor in my nose, only letting it trickle out very slowly. I've found that the nic absorption from those kinds of "nose" hits is HUMONGOUS compared to nic absorption from the lungs. I always keep to about 6-7 mg after dinner, and one night I was practicing my "nose hits" while watching TV, and ended up giving myself the sharp stomach pains, from so much nicotine! Using 6-7 mg!

Andria

Nose hits... not sure I understand that one. And the asthma I can understand would make lung hits much harder.

As far as the lung inhale goes, there is a point where you inhale past that you can feel your lungs truly filling. Its the same point for me that I'm ready to cough if I stopped, not sure what to call it but if you feel it you will know what I mean lol!

 

[AndriaD]

Nose hits... not sure I understand that one. And the asthma I can understand would make lung hits much harder.

As far as the lung inhale goes, there is a point where you inhale past that you can feel your lungs truly filling. Its the same point for me that I'm ready to cough if I stopped, not sure what to call it but if you feel it you will know what I mean lol!

Nose hits = inhaling just to the back of the throat, and stopping; the vapor (or smoke; smoking can be done this way too -- pipes and cigars) floats upward, and eventually wafts out the nose.

My problem arises at a point *just* beyond that "back of throat" inhalation point, at a point that probably corresponds to the bottom of the trachea (extreme top of "chest") -- if I inhale to that point when I first wake up, then the coughing is so intense it nearly gags me. This is somewhat true of cigarettes also; I've always had to be very careful with my "first smoke" of the day; in fact I generally wait 20-30 mins after waking to have that first smoke, so my lungs aren't so "touchy," but I found that I had to force myself to vape just about as soon as my feet hit the floor, to evade that early-morn cigarette craving; if I don't get that craving under control ASAP (as fast as my body can possibly absorb nic from vapor), then avoiding that first smoke is very, very difficult. I won't say impossible, I managed it that first morning I was smoke-free, but it was tough.

I tried very hard this morning, but still found myself, after about 45 mins, heading out to the porch. However, by vaping, I did manage to make that first cigarette last all through my cooking-breakfast phase -- I smoke 120mms, which are easy to smoke part of and then put out for later. After breakfast, generally I would have an entire cigarette, but I managed to get it put out before it was quite done, saving about 1/4 of it for later. So, although by this point I would probably have had 3 or more cigarettes, I haven't yet had 2 full ones -- progress!

The good thing about doing it this way is that those "remnants" naturally have a much stronger, smokier, and more bitter taste; as a regular smoker, I don't really notice a difference in the taste, but I know that once I get the smoking down to a certain point, about 5 a day or less, I *will* begin to taste that difference, making those "remnants" more and more unsmokable, the more I vape and less I smoke.

Andria

 

[Timothy Moore]

AndriaD: You are so right. And shows how I wasn't looking at it properly. I was looking at the long game MORE than the one day at a time aspect. Which is funny, because I am not completely ignorant to things regarding substance abuse recovery. Just for some reason, I didn't apply one to the other. When you said that, though, it really rang some bells for me.

Alisa1970: that's a good point.

ShariR: No, what you are saying makes a lot of sense.

Thaya: also good points.

Thanks to everyone for their likes, their comments, their welcomes and their support.

Yeah, I guess the general consensus is to take a deep breath and take it a step at a time. Which is good. I know once I can get a few days of just vaping under my belt, I will be able to carry that momentum for a long time. Was really nice to vent though. All comments were very helpful.

I do have this going for me right now (perhaps someone else may profit by this notion): With all the things going on in my life right now, I kinda had to set myself up to "reset" every couple hours. I had to take the mindframe of just one hour at a time really. With that being said, I don't feel the pressure of "oh I had a cigarette this morning. Therefore I must smoke all day, because the day is already tainted." I just go with the flow until my next "reset" and try to pick up the vaping again, even if it is just for the next two hours. One day at a time? More like one hour at a time. lol But that just flows into everything else in my life right now. lol I have to take EVERYTHING one hour at a time.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not meaning to complain and be all "woe is me." No, I am very blessed. I have a LOT to be thankful for. Life is just such right now that I have to take that approach to keep my head level and from falling into a negative mindset. This approach has been very helpful in dealing with stress in general. Because all I have to think about is getting through the next two hours. So I guess I am saying that at the very least, if I smoke all day, yet if I get THESE two hours in vaping, that is better than not vaping at all. And if I can vape THESE two hours, maybe I can get through the next two hours as well, when I get there.

Anyways, just kind of thinking out loud I guess. Hope it benefits someone.
Thanks again, everyone

 

[darksparkle13]

Darksparkle, I'm happy to hear you had a great stress free vacation and are climbing back on the vaping wagon. Glad you like the rayon I sent you. Maybe that'll help you cut back on the smoking. It really is good stuff.

You'll love Lox's Swedish Fish. He was pretty much the original creator of the flavor and set the standard for it.

Oh vacations are wonderful! The rayon is dreamy! Thanks for the samples! I have ony tried it in my spheroid but can't wait to try it in my pts!
Swedish fish are one of my all time favorite candies! Faint wait to try it!

 

[darksparkle13]

Tim,
I have to agree with you! It's hard when we do slip up! But a slip up none the less! You found a great group for support, no judgment, no booing, no negativity. Only positive encouragement!
And a killer bunch people to boot! So you mentioned about going thru the myriad of i devices do you still have all o them?

Wow
I am so glad I found this thread.
I just made a request to the forum to actually open up a relapser's board.

But since I am here...
So I started vaping a little over two years ago. Went a full year without one cigarette. Was doing really good. Ran the whole spectrum from cigalikes to sub-ohming on mech mods. Even mix my own juice (though I am no cook).
I really, REALLY enjoy vaping. Everything about it. The flavor. The tinkering. The sub-culture. Everything about vaping, I love. And the more I vape, the more I want to vape. The more I vape, the less I want to smoke.
So what's the problem?

Well, to be honest, I think the answer lies in stress, as some of you have mentioned. No, I didn't deal with my stress in a proper way. I end up smoking. But one cigarette leads to two. Usually the second or third cigarette is the pass or fail for me. Often on the second or third cigarette, I go "ewwww", put it out and go back into vaping. But if I go past that. If I smoke past that, my vaping gear just sits there and starts collecting dust as I go back into FULL smoking.

Even when the stress subdues, or I start dealing with it properly, it is hard to get back on full vaping. It was so much easier the first time.

Be that as it may, I am not going to give up. Not just because I have a small fortune investing in ecig stuff. Not just because I "HAVE" to or that it is better for me. I actually love vaping. And I loved being a full-time vaper.

But I do find this thread encouraging. I keep saying vapers need a place like this. When you don't really see all the other people also struggling, you do feel alone and like a failure. Because on all the groups on FB and everywhere it's all "YAY I AM NEVER EVER SMOKING A NASTY CIGARETTE AGAIN."
And I am happy for these people. Don't get me wrong. I WAS one of these and hope to be again. But it is also nice to be in contact with those who say, "yeah, I slipped up a bit myself."

Thanks for listening, fellow vapers.
I appreciate ye all.

 

[FinallyQuit]

Hey everyone! I've identified a trigger, however that does me absolutely no good, because I can't avoid this trigger forever.

My sister.

Every time I'm around her I immediately start smoking every time she does. When I'm planning on going over to her house for a visit I just automatically buy a pack of Newport 100's in preparation. When I go home I leave the remnants of the pack with her (she smokes the same ones) because I won't want one again until I see her again. If she comes to my house (even for a few brief minutes to pick up or drop off kids) I'll go outside and at least have a couple drags off her cigarette, unless she just gives me a whole one.

What sucks is I've gotten past all my other triggers except this one. I can go and vape in the smoking gazebo, smell them, be around them, and never want one while I'm working. But if I'm in her presence, smoke 'em if you got 'em. But what really really sucks is I was around her a million times when I first quit and didn't give in. Only from Thanksgiving to now I'm "weak" in this situation.

Aside from cutting off all contact with her, which ain't gonna happen, any advice or ideas welcome. Thanks in advance!!

 

[beebopnjazz]

Ask her not to smoke? Vape along with you for the short duration? Seems reasonable to me.

 

[aikanae1]

For me, WTA first thing in the morning is not an option. It is a must have and right up there with going through stress. I also hold the vapor in my mouth and nose because I feel that's where I get maximum effect.

AndriaD: You are so right. And shows how I wasn't looking at it properly. I was looking at the long game MORE than the one day at a time aspect. Which is funny, because I am not completely ignorant to things regarding substance abuse recovery. Just for some reason, I didn't apply one to the other. When you said that, though, it really rang some bells for me.

Alisa1970: that's a good point.

ShariR: No, what you are saying makes a lot of sense.

Thaya: also good points.

Thanks to everyone for their likes, their comments, their welcomes and their support.

Yeah, I guess the general consensus is to take a deep breath and take it a step at a time. Which is good. I know once I can get a few days of just vaping under my belt, I will be able to carry that momentum for a long time. Was really nice to vent though. All comments were very helpful.

I do have this going for me right now (perhaps someone else may profit by this notion): With all the things going on in my life right now, I kinda had to set myself up to "reset" every couple hours. I had to take the mindframe of just one hour at a time really. With that being said, I don't feel the pressure of "oh I had a cigarette this morning. Therefore I must smoke all day, because the day is already tainted." I just go with the flow until my next "reset" and try to pick up the vaping again, even if it is just for the next two hours. One day at a time? More like one hour at a time. lol But that just flows into everything else in my life right now. lol I have to take EVERYTHING one hour at a time.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not meaning to complain and be all "woe is me." No, I am very blessed. I have a LOT to be thankful for. Life is just such right now that I have to take that approach to keep my head level and from falling into a negative mindset. This approach has been very helpful in dealing with stress in general. Because all I have to think about is getting through the next two hours. So I guess I am saying that at the very least, if I smoke all day, yet if I get THESE two hours in vaping, that is better than not vaping at all. And if I can vape THESE two hours, maybe I can get through the next two hours as well, when I get there.

Anyways, just kind of thinking out loud I guess. Hope it benefits someone.
Thanks again, everyone

 

[aikanae1]

Hey everyone! I've identified a trigger, however that does me absolutely no good, because I can't avoid this trigger forever.

My sister.

Every time I'm around her I immediately start smoking every time she does. When I'm planning on going over to her house for a visit I just automatically buy a pack of Newport 100's in preparation. When I go home I leave the remnants of the pack with her (she smokes the same ones) because I won't want one again until I see her again. If she comes to my house (even for a few brief minutes to pick up or drop off kids) I'll go outside and at least have a couple drags off her cigarette, unless she just gives me a whole one.

What sucks is I've gotten past all my other triggers except this one. I can go and vape in the smoking gazebo, smell them, be around them, and never want one while I'm working. But if I'm in her presence, smoke 'em if you got 'em. But what really really sucks is I was around her a million times when I first quit and didn't give in. Only from Thanksgiving to now I'm "weak" in this situation.

Aside from cutting off all contact with her, which ain't gonna happen, any advice or ideas welcome. Thanks in advance!!

Ugh. I know that problem well. On several of my quit attempts I've had to limit smoking friends or I'd be right back at it. I always smoked more around them too even if I wasn't trying to quit. There's a weird thing that happens. One lights up, the other does to and then the first one has finished so they light up again and by that time the other one has finished, and lights up again. Awful. I'd go through double the smokes, maybe more. It can happen on the phone too.

I agree with Jazz. Talk to her and tell her this is causing problems for you and see if she wouldn't mind vaping around you instead. My guess is your missing the cigarette experience and not the nicotine so much, maybe a cigalike would be more comfortable or something like an ERoll? Just a guess.

 

[AndriaD]

For me, WTA first thing in the morning is not an option. It is a must have and right up there with going through stress. I also hold the vapor in my mouth and nose because I feel that's where I get maximum effect.

I've been trying out the Aroma Virginia WTA, but it's 12mg so I can't do it "straight", have to mix in some of my 6mg to get it to a strength I can handle, which is just as well as it seems to have that "green" "grassy" sort of taste that I dislike intensely. I'm thinking seriously of trying out the unflavored WTA from wholecigs; but the weakest they offer is 17mg, so I'd have to dilute it even more. Not sure it will really be worth it for me, since I'm beginning to get my tastebuds back in line and my regular Virginia is tasting more and more normal to me. But, for the 3wk/3mo points, the WTA make might it easier to get thru those "depression" phases -- and the unflavored could be added to the sweet flavors, so it would be a better investment, IMO.

I managed to hold my smoking to 8 cigs yesterday, and doing well today too; maybe I can keep it down to 6 or 7 today.

Andria

 

[darksparkle13]

Hey everyone! I've identified a trigger, however that does me absolutely no good, because I can't avoid this trigger forever.

My sister.

Every time I'm around her I immediately start smoking every time she does. When I'm planning on going over to her house for a visit I just automatically buy a pack of Newport 100's in preparation. When I go home I leave the remnants of the pack with her (she smokes the same ones) because I won't want one again until I see her again. If she comes to my house (even for a few brief minutes to pick up or drop off kids) I'll go outside and at least have a couple drags off her cigarette, unless she just gives me a whole one.

What sucks is I've gotten past all my other triggers except this one. I can go and vape in the smoking gazebo, smell them, be around them, and never want one while I'm working. But if I'm in her presence, smoke 'em if you got 'em. But what really really sucks is I was around her a million times when I first quit and didn't give in. Only from Thanksgiving to now I'm "weak" in this situation.

Aside from cutting off all contact with her, which ain't gonna happen, any advice or ideas welcome. Thanks in advance!!

I might be late to the party here but what about getting her into vaping?
Is that even possible? I got my BFF into vaping and we now vape when we visit... And sometimes smoke?...but it's better than smoking the whole time!

 

[darksparkle13]

Aik I think you are spot on! I know it was hard on my vacation because dad and I would have the best talks while we were outside smoking! I visited mt dads resting place and sure enough I lite up...

Ugh. I know that problem well. On several of my quit attempts I've had to limit smoking friends or I'd be right back at it. I always smoked more around them too even if I wasn't trying to quit. There's a weird thing that happens. One lights up, the other does to and then the first one has finished so they light up again and by that time the other one has finished, and lights up again. Awful. I'd go through double the smokes, maybe more. It can happen on the phone too.

I agree with Jazz. Talk to her and tell her this is causing problems for you and see if she wouldn't mind vaping around you instead. My guess is your missing the cigarette experience and not the nicotine so much, maybe a cigalike would be more comfortable or something like an ERoll? Just a guess.

 

[darksparkle13]

Wow what a great start! That is awesome! Yesterday I was at four, then today I had five already! Biggest triggers, first thing in the am, driving to work, eatting, stress from the job. I used to smoke four cigarettes before I even got to work! Hubby drinking is another stressor

I've been trying out the Aroma Virginia WTA, but it's 12mg so I can't do it "straight", have to mix in some of my 6mg to get it to a strength I can handle, which is just as well as it seems to have that "green" "grassy" sort of taste that I dislike intensely. I'm thinking seriously of trying out the unflavored WTA from wholecigs; but the weakest they offer is 17mg, so I'd have to dilute it even more. Not sure it will really be worth it for me, since I'm beginning to get my tastebuds back in line and my regular Virginia is tasting more and more normal to me. But, for the 3wk/3mo points, the WTA make might it easier to get thru those "depression" phases -- and the unflavored could be added to the sweet flavors, so it would be a better investment, IMO.

I managed to hold my smoking to 8 cigs yesterday, and doing well today too; maybe I can keep it down to 6 or 7 today.

Andria

 

[aikanae1]

I've been trying out the Aroma Virginia WTA, but it's 12mg so I can't do it "straight", have to mix in some of my 6mg to get it to a strength I can handle, which is just as well as it seems to have that "green" "grassy" sort of taste that I dislike intensely. I'm thinking seriously of trying out the unflavored WTA from wholecigs; but the weakest they offer is 17mg, so I'd have to dilute it even more. Not sure it will really be worth it for me, since I'm beginning to get my tastebuds back in line and my regular Virginia is tasting more and more normal to me. But, for the 3wk/3mo points, the WTA make might it easier to get thru those "depression" phases -- and the unflavored could be added to the sweet flavors, so it would be a better investment, IMO.

I managed to hold my smoking to 8 cigs yesterday, and doing well today too; maybe I can keep it down to 6 or 7 today.

Andria

It helped me to pay more attention to the ones I don't smoke than the ones I do. Focusing on smoking tended to make me want to smoke - even talking about it in here at times. I think everyone has to find the balance that works for them.

With unflavored WTA (both Aroma and WC) I think you are getting the alkaloids, meaning you can add some drops to your fav eliquid and get the full effect. Notice that Aroma calls their pre-mixed "WTA infused" - well when you buy the unflavored, you are getting the "infused" part with no flavorings. I'm not sure what WC is offerring lately. I know the two are very different product lines. I've used both. WC is a newer company and they have changed their products so you might want to double check with them directly and see what they reccomend. You might also ask at Aroma's thread too. But my hunch is that you might be successful just adding it to what you've already got.

I started out at 12mg, even got dizzy at first (chain vaping) and had problems making the transition. Someone suggested upping my nic level and I tried it, worked like a charm. I still float between a variety of nic levels during the day.

 

[Timothy Moore]

Tim,
I have to agree with you! It's hard when we do slip up! But a slip up none the less! You found a great group for support, no judgment, no booing, no negativity. Only positive encouragement!
And a killer bunch people to boot! So you mentioned about going thru the myriad of i devices do you still have all o them?

Well, I still have my cigalikes (Halo G6 system).

From there I went to an Ego battery. With that I tried cartomizers, atomizers (with and without drippers), the Ego-C system and the vivi-nova tank. Finally I found out about RBA and I got an IGO-L. That was also my bridge into mods.
The Ego batteries I PIF'd. One to a friend and one to my dad. I still have the ego-c stuff somewhere. About to PIF my vivi nova tank to my dad too, since he is new and liking tanks like that.

My next step was into mods and furthered my rebuilding tools and techniques. First was a Zmax. Then I found out about the wonderful world of sub-ohming and got a Nemesis hcigar mod. Then it was a King clone. Then an M16 clone. Then a black nemmy mod. I still have all of these and two or three igo-ls which I build for different stuff. (One set up is super low ohm for clouds. One kinda mid range for some cloud but also retain some flavor. Couple builds around 1 ohm.)
Also got a kayfun, taifun, couple other RDA, a AGA T3. All built different for different purposes.
My preferred setup now is my taifun built around one ohm on my m16.

I have slowly PIFd stuff I don't use, but everything else I continue to use (when I am vaping lol).

 

[Timothy Moore]

Well, God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.

New breakthru in my battle with cigarettes.
Two things happened today that pushed me back into more vaping.

One, and the lesser one, was that I finally got some brasso for my brass mods.
Now, for me, the more I tinker with my ecig stuff, the more mindful and desirous to vape I become. I already have all my juice made and all my rebuildables set up the way I want. This diminishes my tinkering time
But with brasso, I have spent over a couple hours today polishing my brass mods. (they were in pretty bad shape. One had started to show green.)

The other, greater thing that happened was a dual tooth extraction I had today. Of course, smoking after an extraction leads to dry socket. So smoking is a bad bad thing right now. Plus the tar makes for slower healing.
But I already had one of my IGO-L drilled out. Two 1/8 holes. This means I don't have to draw hard at all. This gives me extra incentive to vape.
As long as I don't break down, I should have at least three days of just vaping under my belt. This could lead to full-time vaping.

So if you need an incentive to jump back into vaping, get a tooth pulled and a very airy setup.