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eclypse..I don't see Scottbee wanting to make money. IN Fact he says quit the opposite. Perhaps- a little more diplomacy will go a long way. Your obviously seeing red first, before actually reading and comprehending his words.
eclypse..you want to create the ultimate cart mod and should try to take advantage of every little bit of info you can. Instead of harping on what doesn't work to your satisfaction. Maybe since he didn't address the air flow through the tube, you could take a small strip of sheet metal and weld it in then add two smaller adapters to each cart that would slide in and out. A little welding but sounds like the ticket to address the point you don't like. If my words are confusing..I could do a hand drawing if you like? But you have to send me one and give me credit ; ) It's my idea now ..You've been warned! (hehehehe)
Scottbee Thank You for a clear answer to my question. And, sorry I used the red flag
eclypse..you want to create the ultimate cart mod and should try to take advantage of every little bit of info you can. Instead of harping on what doesn't work to your satisfaction. Maybe since he didn't address the air flow through the tube, you could take a small strip of sheet metal and weld it in then add two smaller adapters to each cart that would slide in and out. A little welding but sounds like the ticket to address the point you don't like. If my words are confusing..I could do a hand drawing if you like? But you have to send me one and give me credit ; ) It's my idea now ..You've been warned! (hehehehe)
Scottbee Thank You for a clear answer to my question. And, sorry I used the red flag
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The very first thing that we need to keep in mind is that Eclypse had the very first original thought in the entire universe. All subsequent thoughts were simply permutations of his original thought.. and he deserves credit for everything. From toilet paper to rubber tires.. it's all Eclypse.. all the time. Thank you Eclypse. We are forever in your debt. We should all send you the money that we owe you so you don't have to play Mr. Mom all day while your wife goes out and works.
Now, onto the topic at hand. The concept of partial pressure being generated on the "backside" of the fluid reservoir is neither new or unique. It was discussed many, many months ago.. long before Eclypse or I were even members of the forum. And, of course, for many of us it was discussed back in science class when we were playing with pipettes. 40 years ago.
None the less. Mods like the original "straw mod" made attempts to address this issue. Not only did they allow more liquid to be pulled from the cartridge, they also helped with refilling since they vented the air bubble trapped at the bottom of the cartridge. I don't know or remember who came up with the original straw mod.. but absentee kudos are in order.
Partial pressure (vacuum) on the back side of the fluid became a more pronounced issue when modders started playing with reservoir and plug configurations. The cartridge would vape well for a little bit, the bridge would pull liquid out of the cartridge and a vacuum would be generated on the "back side" of the liquid reservoir pool. Finally the vacuum force would meet or exceed the film tension and capillary forces (wicking) and the flow would stop. Not exactly rocket science.
I machined the basic guts of this mod back in November of 2009.. albeit for a different purpose. I personally observed the magnitude of the vacuum effect here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/cartridge-mods/46916-reservoir-straw-plug-mod-rsp-mod-37.html
And that's what got me thinking about a controlled release of the vacuum in order to create a feeding mechanism. I already had the base unit designed and built, so all I had to do was come up with the "ball bearing burper". Also not rocket science. As with many things, the building and empirical analysis was substantially more difficult than having the "initial thought".
Since I design multi-million dollar equipment for a living... and have a crapload of patents, I guess I don't consider this to be that big of a thing. *shrug*
For others it would appear that maybe this constitutes the best idea that they ever had.. or will ever have in their entire life. And they're pretty p*ssed that they didn't act on it. Or didn't/don't have the ability to act on it.
How sad.
Now, onto the topic at hand. The concept of partial pressure being generated on the "backside" of the fluid reservoir is neither new or unique. It was discussed many, many months ago.. long before Eclypse or I were even members of the forum. And, of course, for many of us it was discussed back in science class when we were playing with pipettes. 40 years ago.
None the less. Mods like the original "straw mod" made attempts to address this issue. Not only did they allow more liquid to be pulled from the cartridge, they also helped with refilling since they vented the air bubble trapped at the bottom of the cartridge. I don't know or remember who came up with the original straw mod.. but absentee kudos are in order.
Partial pressure (vacuum) on the back side of the fluid became a more pronounced issue when modders started playing with reservoir and plug configurations. The cartridge would vape well for a little bit, the bridge would pull liquid out of the cartridge and a vacuum would be generated on the "back side" of the liquid reservoir pool. Finally the vacuum force would meet or exceed the film tension and capillary forces (wicking) and the flow would stop. Not exactly rocket science.
I machined the basic guts of this mod back in November of 2009.. albeit for a different purpose. I personally observed the magnitude of the vacuum effect here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/cartridge-mods/46916-reservoir-straw-plug-mod-rsp-mod-37.html
And that's what got me thinking about a controlled release of the vacuum in order to create a feeding mechanism. I already had the base unit designed and built, so all I had to do was come up with the "ball bearing burper". Also not rocket science. As with many things, the building and empirical analysis was substantially more difficult than having the "initial thought".
Since I design multi-million dollar equipment for a living... and have a crapload of patents, I guess I don't consider this to be that big of a thing. *shrug*
For others it would appear that maybe this constitutes the best idea that they ever had.. or will ever have in their entire life. And they're pretty p*ssed that they didn't act on it. Or didn't/don't have the ability to act on it.
How sad.
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(Queue the soft music)
A lovely parable:
Ugg: "Ugg notice that square rock not roll. Ugg bummed."
Ogg: "Ogg notice that square rock not roll too. Ogg make round rock. Ogg put hole in middle and stick tree through hole. Roll good. Ogg call it WHEEL"
Ugg: "Ogg THIEF! Ugg first to notice that square rock not roll. Ugg deserve credit for WHEEL!"
Ogg: "Ugg narcissistic .........."
A lovely parable:
Ugg: "Ugg notice that square rock not roll. Ugg bummed."
Ogg: "Ogg notice that square rock not roll too. Ogg make round rock. Ogg put hole in middle and stick tree through hole. Roll good. Ogg call it WHEEL"
Ugg: "Ogg THIEF! Ugg first to notice that square rock not roll. Ugg deserve credit for WHEEL!"
Ogg: "Ugg narcissistic .........."
Hey Brother,
Was wondering if ya talked to Sis today? I dont know who started it BUT this looks very promissing....
BTW I went to Micheals craft shop yesterday and walked around for an hour before asking the Manager for that candy mold stuff...They didnt have any??? The search goes on...However I fell a trip to Home depot coming on for some other stuff now!!! L8r Bro
Betchya scared the living snot outa all the old ladies that were there looking for quilting supplies.... ;-)
Supplier huh, didnt know u did that Bro. What will 5 premade 510 plugs get me in trade? Maybe 10 plugs? 20?
Listen....
Since I honestly don't care if this gets "knocked-off" or copied or whatever (I'd prefer to buy them than make them!).... I'll gladly tell you the direction that I am going to go on my next unit.
In order to make life easier ON ME... I am going to start with the TW Mega cartridge and either their Mega atty.... or a 510 atty with a longer sleeve (I can do that easily). This gets me out of splicing two cartridges together, which is the hard part.. even with my lathe and mill.
Secondly, I am not going to use the ball-bearing on the next one. I had to invoke a "trick" in order to get the ball to seal reliably on the backside of the hole.... and that too was a pain (it involves controlled, localized heat). So I am going to use a silicone seal. Specifically, I am going to use the center-hole "nib" from a KR808D-1 cartomizer condom system. I will feed that up into the cartridge reservoir and then pull the long stem out through the hole. Then I'll install my stainless spring.. and trim off the long piece of the "nib". That will leave a nice silicone button that you can press. Looks good on paper.
If.. and only if.... I get around to making that (I haven't ordered the Mega cartridges yet)... and if... and only if.. it is as easy as I think it will be... maybe I'll make a few spares.
But I honestly hope somebody beats me to it.
Since I honestly don't care if this gets "knocked-off" or copied or whatever (I'd prefer to buy them than make them!).... I'll gladly tell you the direction that I am going to go on my next unit.
In order to make life easier ON ME... I am going to start with the TW Mega cartridge and either their Mega atty.... or a 510 atty with a longer sleeve (I can do that easily). This gets me out of splicing two cartridges together, which is the hard part.. even with my lathe and mill.
Secondly, I am not going to use the ball-bearing on the next one. I had to invoke a "trick" in order to get the ball to seal reliably on the backside of the hole.... and that too was a pain (it involves controlled, localized heat). So I am going to use a silicone seal. Specifically, I am going to use the center-hole "nib" from a KR808D-1 cartomizer condom system. I will feed that up into the cartridge reservoir and then pull the long stem out through the hole. Then I'll install my stainless spring.. and trim off the long piece of the "nib". That will leave a nice silicone button that you can press. Looks good on paper.
If.. and only if.... I get around to making that (I haven't ordered the Mega cartridges yet)... and if... and only if.. it is as easy as I think it will be... maybe I'll make a few spares.
But I honestly hope somebody beats me to it.
Neither can we... It is either use my BFM or your wrong.. or the way you come across everytime.. even in post that you have never been seen in prior.. That you thought of the concept or recommended the concept that the person was working on .. by the person I mean the OP.... and that credit to you must be warranted. It is the general rule of thumb among the members of this forum that you always overstep your welcome when it comes to these matters because nobody wants a person that cannot share.... It is simply crazy that you need so much attention, no wonder your wife doesn't listen to you anymore.
BTW, great job Scott and Happy Vaping.
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What an "amazing" contraption Scott !!......
Thank you from, all of us I'm sure, for the viewing, description, and "tease", lol..
Hopefully someone will come along with the desire to market or sideline this very interesting and needed mod, and I'd be amongst the firsts in line to get one because I just don't have the skill or ability to work with tiny pieces anymore !!
I'd also like to personally thank you for your contributions (et all), to the community by sharing with us publicly.
And Eclypse.... As much as I appreciate your input and contributions as well with your blue foam mod (which I still use today), I have lost pretty much "any" respect for you with your constant attempts at glory hogging.
Grow up & participate in further development of a "new" discovery, or stay out of other member's threads.
If I had chose to remain a mod here on ECF, I would be handing you your .... for inciting !!
VapeOn,
Greg
Thank you from, all of us I'm sure, for the viewing, description, and "tease", lol..
Hopefully someone will come along with the desire to market or sideline this very interesting and needed mod, and I'd be amongst the firsts in line to get one because I just don't have the skill or ability to work with tiny pieces anymore !!
I'd also like to personally thank you for your contributions (et all), to the community by sharing with us publicly.
And Eclypse.... As much as I appreciate your input and contributions as well with your blue foam mod (which I still use today), I have lost pretty much "any" respect for you with your constant attempts at glory hogging.
Grow up & participate in further development of a "new" discovery, or stay out of other member's threads.
If I had chose to remain a mod here on ECF, I would be handing you your .... for inciting !!
VapeOn,
Greg
Please keep your response on point. If you disagree with information from another member, that is fine. Do not attack anyone personally.
Further violations of this rule will not be tolerated and infractions will be issued if necessary.
ECF Moderation Team
Further violations of this rule will not be tolerated and infractions will be issued if necessary.
ECF Moderation Team
yea infractions are no fun... I couldn't access my PM's or profile for three days. nah if I disagree with something Ill just walk away. Unless the thread was meant for debating.
Anyway back on subject I think the larger mega carts will work easier and may eliminate splicing. Now about using the silicone piece instead of the bead, how exactly will you go about doing that? Can you explain how you refill the cart and how do you create that seal to allow air in to make the cart drip. I am still confused on exactly what you did.
Anyway back on subject I think the larger mega carts will work easier and may eliminate splicing. Now about using the silicone piece instead of the bead, how exactly will you go about doing that? Can you explain how you refill the cart and how do you create that seal to allow air in to make the cart drip. I am still confused on exactly what you did.
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Oh man.. I just hate it when I hammer out a long response and then do something completely STUPID to lose it! *grumble*
OK.. first off, are you familiar with the "plug nib" that they use with the cartomizers for the KR808D-1's? If not, I can post a pic later. The new configuration check valve will make much more sense if you can visualize the silicone part.
Refilling the cart is no big deal if you have the right bottle. A small clear bottle with a broad tip is the best. Narrow tips like the ones on the 30ml ECOpure bottles don't work.. while the tips on the smaller bottles from Dawn and Drew and most of the others will work well. To refill, you simply invert the PV so the battery is pointing "up", press the tip of the bottle against the check valve ball (that simultaneously compressed the check valve and makes a seal between the bottle tip and the side of the cart) and then squeeze the bottle until the cartridge is "near full". The cartridge holds just about .75ml.. compared to about .4ml for a standard 510 flat cartridge. A small clear bottle with graduations helps. You interrupt the refilling process a couple of times to check and see how much you have put in. A clear cartridge would certainly make this a lot easier and would eliminate the "dead reckoning" aspect of the refilling process. Also, a bottle nipple with a small silicone sleeve around it allows you to refill with a bit less mess.
The seal in the check valve is made by a .125" stainless steel ball being pressed into a .113" hole in the side of the cart by a spring from the inside. If you can make a nice round hole with few internal burrs you will get a pretty good seal, and the thick juice on the ball helps. But... I had a problem with my hole and I had the slightest leak. It would flood the atty if I left the PV unattended for very long periods of time with the cartridge end facing "up". To solve this problem I needed to "clean up" the inside of the hole. To do this I did some localized heating of the ball from the inside of the cart.. up to about 450 degrees F. That softened the plastic and allowed it to conform to the ball, making a dern-near perfect seal. Had I gone hotter, or pressed too hard I would have pushed the ball right through the hole.
Does any of the make sense.. or help?
OK.. first off, are you familiar with the "plug nib" that they use with the cartomizers for the KR808D-1's? If not, I can post a pic later. The new configuration check valve will make much more sense if you can visualize the silicone part.
Refilling the cart is no big deal if you have the right bottle. A small clear bottle with a broad tip is the best. Narrow tips like the ones on the 30ml ECOpure bottles don't work.. while the tips on the smaller bottles from Dawn and Drew and most of the others will work well. To refill, you simply invert the PV so the battery is pointing "up", press the tip of the bottle against the check valve ball (that simultaneously compressed the check valve and makes a seal between the bottle tip and the side of the cart) and then squeeze the bottle until the cartridge is "near full". The cartridge holds just about .75ml.. compared to about .4ml for a standard 510 flat cartridge. A small clear bottle with graduations helps. You interrupt the refilling process a couple of times to check and see how much you have put in. A clear cartridge would certainly make this a lot easier and would eliminate the "dead reckoning" aspect of the refilling process. Also, a bottle nipple with a small silicone sleeve around it allows you to refill with a bit less mess.
The seal in the check valve is made by a .125" stainless steel ball being pressed into a .113" hole in the side of the cart by a spring from the inside. If you can make a nice round hole with few internal burrs you will get a pretty good seal, and the thick juice on the ball helps. But... I had a problem with my hole and I had the slightest leak. It would flood the atty if I left the PV unattended for very long periods of time with the cartridge end facing "up". To solve this problem I needed to "clean up" the inside of the hole. To do this I did some localized heating of the ball from the inside of the cart.. up to about 450 degrees F. That softened the plastic and allowed it to conform to the ball, making a dern-near perfect seal. Had I gone hotter, or pressed too hard I would have pushed the ball right through the hole.
Does any of the make sense.. or help?
I'm new to all this Forum stuff, so I appoligize ahead of time for any poor Forum edicate.
I used the cut out top of the 510 cartridge condom with small hole, like someone else had in this forum. It's exactly the same as theirs (I think it was ZFM Mod?), but no straw.
It had the vacuum effect as well. Just 4 taps on the top of the cartridge (not hard), and it's just like dripping with out removing the cartridge.
I used the cut out top of the 510 cartridge condom with small hole, like someone else had in this forum. It's exactly the same as theirs (I think it was ZFM Mod?), but no straw.
It had the vacuum effect as well. Just 4 taps on the top of the cartridge (not hard), and it's just like dripping with out removing the cartridge.
No worries Wetstick.. you're not ruffling any feathers.
The effect that you are describing is almost exactly what this unit is designed for (that and increased capacity). The "tapping" may work in some situations, but I didn't find it to be rock-solid reliable for all attys with all of the liquids that I use. Thicker liquids with higher film tensions wouldn't "break the seal" and "burp" when I tapped or inverted the cartridge. I figured an actual "pressure relief valve" would be more reliable, controllable, and robust.
Awesome cart mod. I just have one question or maybe two. Do you have to hold the VP verticle when you depress the button to get it to burp? Second, the way the seal/p;ug is, it looks like to get all the juice to be used you'd have to hold it verticle(since there is no wick I take it).
Last question.
How easy is it to flood the atty while burbing the cart? How long do you depress the button to get enough drops roughly?
Awesome ideal...just awesome.
Last question.
How easy is it to flood the atty while burbing the cart? How long do you depress the button to get enough drops roughly?
Awesome ideal...just awesome.
Awesome cart mod. I just have one question or maybe two. Do you have to hold the VP verticle when you depress the button to get it to burp? Second, the way the seal/p;ug is, it looks like to get all the juice to be used you'd have to hold it verticle(since there is no wick I take it).
Last question.
How easy is it to flood the atty while burbing the cart? How long do you depress the button to get enough drops roughly?
Awesome ideal...just awesome.
You don't "burp" it while you're vaping.. you burp in-between sessions (just like dripping). And yes, you hold the PV vertical when you burp it. It's a pretty natural motion for me, but I realize that people hold and use PVs in different ways.
And just like dripping.. there is a wick that "takes in" the fluid. It's the nickel mesh of the bridge and material surrounding the coil pot. That material holds more liquid than a lot of people think (about .2ml when completely dry). And on the 510 there is also the supplemental wick that runs from the bridge to the coil.
I can certainly flood the atty with this cart, but it takes a bit of time holding the button to do it (the viscosity of your liquid is of course a factor here). Generally speaking, a burp is about 2 seconds. If I burp for about 4 seconds the vape will get very "wet". That will be a "near flooded" condition where the atty body temperature goes up and the vapor production goes down. But a couple of good draws and that will clear. Anything over 5 seconds (and that's a long time) and I will get a legitimate flood.
Hope that helps.
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