To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.

[Boodle]

I agree with Hairball. I don't flaunt my PV but if they object when I vape I explain to them in a nice way that it is just vapor that doesn't bother anyone. No one has ever told me no yet and if they do I will leave and let them know I won't be back.

I vape almost everywhere. I'm discreet with low vapor juice and stealth methods in non-smoking areas. I don't want to offend anyone. I love vaping after dinner in a restaurant without the need to hurry for a nic fix. Golly, that's nice. I haven't been bothered about it so far. It's just a matter of time before we see no vaping signs. Some ding dongs are going to be blowing offensive plumes of thick vapor, leave empty nicliq bottles and old supplies where a child can get it and suck on it or whatever. We're in for a host of issues. I get Starbuck's reluctance. It's the Wild West in terms of vaping today. Members on ECF are being encouraged to banter with those opposing vaping in a non-constructive mud-slinging match. Some of the haters are coming here posing as fake vapers with dire medical issues from vaping. That's not new but more prevalent since the fight started.

It's ironic that I met the college student that sold me my first mods at a Starbucks. He spent an hour with me showing me how to vape, trying different liquids etc. in the middle of a busy store without incident. I've not posted on forums before because the topics weren't important enough to me to invest my time and the hate is destructive. Hope that kind of energy doesn't infest this forum. It's a wonderful refuge for those in desperate need of info, encouragement and acceptance.

 

[WyattDerp]

I vape almost everywhere. I'm discreet with low vapor juice and stealth methods in non-smoking areas. I don't want to offend anyone. I love vaping after dinner in a restaurant without the need to hurry for a nic fix. Golly, that's nice. I haven't been bothered about it so far. It's just a matter of time before we see no vaping signs. Some ding dongs are going to be blowing offensive plumes of thick vapor, leave empty nicliq bottles and old supplies where a child can get it and suck on it or whatever. We're in for a host of issues. I get Starbuck's reluctance. It's the Wild West in terms of vaping today. Members on ECF are being encouraged to banter with those opposing vaping in a non-constructive mud-slinging match. Some of the haters are coming here posing as fake vapers with dire medical issues from vaping. That's not new but more prevalent since the fight started.

It's ironic that I met the college student that sold me my first mods at a Starbucks. He spent an hour with me showing me how to vape, trying different liquids etc. in the middle of a busy store without incident. I've not posted on forums before because the topics weren't important enough to me to invest my time and the hate is destructive. Hope that kind of energy doesn't infest this forum. It's a wonderful refuge for those in desperate need of info, encouragement and acceptance.

Agreed. Cuz mud spelled backwards is dum.

 

[Valsacar]

Sorry, can't agree with the OP here. As others have stated, smoking bans are put in place because of harm (or possibility of harm) to non-smokers. This I can understand and back, even when I was a smoker. As all evidence so far is that e-cigs do not carry that risk.

I will respect any businesses decision on what they allow though, if Starbucks says no vaping then that is their choice. I will try and educate them, and fight for the right, but it is THEIR business. I probably would not boycott Starbucks because of it, just as I wouldn't if they told me I couldn't drink a beer or put whiskey in my coffee while I'm in their place of business.

I will boycott places for other things where they are just flat out wrong, for example I haven't stepped foot in a specific store for over 10 years. I tried to write a check there, they asked for ID. I provided them with my US Military ID (only one I had on me at the time), they refused to accept that, even after I explained to them that it is a valid US Government issued ID and that by law they must accept it. I will never go back in that store again.

I also refuse to patron any online store that does not accept APO/FPO/DPO addresses. These are addresses used by our (US) military and diplomatic personnel stationed overseas. While legally they have no requirement to accept those addresses, the fact that by not doing so they are refusing to support our (US) military is enough for me to never spend my money there. Yes, there are ways around it, but I'm not going out of my way to give money to someone that turns their back on those in the military (or diplomats).

So... after all my rambling... If a private business wants to ban it, I will accept it but still fight to educate them on why it is not needed. If the government tries, fight tooth and nail until the end!

 

[oldsoldier]

I once had a business refuse to accept my United States Passport as a valid government issued ID. That was pretty amusing since it was a large retail chain.

But to the topic at hand, I will respect the wishes of the business owner pretty much in the same way Valsacar stated.

 

[SimpleSins]

Testing has been done.

News Archive

Do you have the actual article? All that this is one physicians summary that it shows promise, clearly states he can't declare them absolutely safe. It does mention some of the carcinogens being lower level than in cigarettes, but it doesn't mention chemicals that can cause damage other than cancer. Unfortunately, the link in the article to the full study to get specific information is a pay site, so I'm hoping that if we vapers are going to point to this as our "smoking gun" of proof that it's safe, there is some place that this information is freely had.

 

[wv2win]

Well, I'm glad to hear that your doctor is spreading the information about ecigarettes to other people that will potentially benefit from them. However, that is one doctor out of tens of thousands that we have in this nation alone. I wish long term studies would be conducted and I would hope that we could agree that a study would benefit everyone, ecig users as well as the general public so they would be more tolerant or understanding regarding the ecigs we use.

We are foolish if we think we should just sit on our hands, vape with the smokers and do not actively advocate for vaping rights. Wishing someone else will "do some studies" while we do nothing to promote vaping seems naive and irresponsible. My doctor is quite anti-smoking. Why do you think he went to the trouble to research vaping? Because I strongly encouraged him to do so and vaped in his waiting room and in the examining room.

 

[SimpleSins]

We are foolish if we think we should just sit on our hands, vape with the smokers and do not actively advocate for vaping rights. Wishing someone else will "do some studies" while we do nothing to promote vaping seems naive and irresponsible. My doctor is quite anti-smoking. Why do you think he went to the trouble to research vaping? Because I strongly encouraged him to do so and vaped in his waiting room and in the examining room.

My pulmonologist had a completely different reaction, so I don't know if it's a matter of battling specialists. Mine took issue specifically with some of the ingredients in the flavoring, and took even more issue in the fact that there were a lot more in them that I did not know of. Unfortunately, I'm one of the people who actually got worse when I started vaping, despite trying PG, VG, and varying ratios. It was then that I was referred to the pulmonologist and after doing his research, he did not feel they were a product he could recommend for long-term use in his patients. He did, though, feel they might be of some benefit in short-term use, <6 month use if it helped quit smoking, although he still would not recommend it and suggested that if it was used that the flavoring being kept to a minimum.

 

[hairball]

Do you have the actual article? All that this is one physicians summary that it shows promise, clearly states he can't declare them absolutely safe. It does mention some of the carcinogens being lower level than in cigarettes, but it doesn't mention chemicals that can cause damage other than cancer. Unfortunately, the link in the article to the full study to get specific information is a pay site, so I'm hoping that if we vapers are going to point to this as our "smoking gun" of proof that it's safe, there is some place that this information is freely had.

Sorry it took a tad to find these again.

I think the first one is the one you're wanting to know about.
Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/156651-useful-pdfs.html

CASAA.org

You can also do more reading in the research thread.
Medical Research

 

[Mr.BeSoBeautiful]

I'm gonna vape & at the same time I'm gonna educate. Any questions? I'd be happy to answer them from a professional medical point of view. I'll also back my answers up with facts, literature & sources with credibility.

As far as education goes, who is it that you want to educate? I would rather answer questions from smokers who are interested in vaping to try to convert them then defend myself from pig headed non smokers. We all found a safer (so far) alternative to smoking and owe it to the smoking world to educate them. From a business stand point would you rather allow the 1% of the population that vapes to vape in your store or alienate the 10% of customers who are uptight about just about anything?

 

[Raynen]

I haven't read through much of the forum, just for the record, but I did read the OP's post.

People will *ALWAYS* be ignorant. No matter what words come out of our mouths, if someone outright believes we're wrong about our PVs, then guess what: We are "wrong" because they think so. There is a LARGE difference between the UNinformed and the MISinformed, and it can make a world of a difference when explaining just what we do. With that said, I know that being pushy about something is never a good way to set any standards.

If I am ever in an establishment that normally would not allow smoking, I simply ask. Most common courtesy nowadays is as extinct as a dinosaur. I ask because my primary need is to be polite and my secondary is to set the fact that vaping isn't such a big deal. Yes, I'm trying to or have already quit and vaping is different in certain ways, but I can suck it up and wait until I go outside.

What I am NOT saying is to let the ignorance spread; it is extremely frustrating to read any major article about what we do, and not what we have accomplished. I am an independent individual that doesn't run exactly alongside the "norm" of society, but I've learned some things to get by without breaking down who I am. This has been applied to my PV and vaping because the last thing I need is to be shunned by my choice of quitting. I do educate as much as I can but educating about vaping should NOT be started by pushing and pressuring those who have NO idea what it is. We have to be smart but progressive and remember that information can either flow like water or spread like wildfire.

I was at the dentist, and my doctor asked me about my PV. After I kindly explained it, he had me show him right after because he was very intrigued. I'm sure he wouldn't have liked me walking in there and vaping without asking. Asking is easier than debating.

Bans, policies, and laws are mostly out of our hands, but if we are not on focus, we could easily tip the scale against our favor. We need to stand our ground from ignorance, but we also need to remember being confident and polite about what we do.

+Raynen+

 

[Mr.BeSoBeautiful]

I doubt you are a doctor. I asked my doctor to research it and tell me what he thinks. Several months later he told me that based on his research, including talking to several pulminary doctors, he believes it is as safe as any NRT products on the market and completely endorses me vaping. In fact he is recommending it to his other patients who smoke.

I agree that it's a lot safer than smoking too but there aren't many long term studies as of yet. The opinion of one or two doctors is very small compared to the number of doctors they're are in the world. At one point doctors used ... to treat alcoholism and ecstacy was used by psychiatrists in therapy sessions.

 

[hairball]

My pulmonologist had a completely different reaction, so I don't know if it's a matter of battling specialists. Mine took issue specifically with some of the ingredients in the flavoring, and took even more issue in the fact that there were a lot more in them that I did not know of. Unfortunately, I'm one of the people who actually got worse when I started vaping, despite trying PG, VG, and varying ratios. It was then that I was referred to the pulmonologist and after doing his research, he did not feel they were a product he could recommend for long-term use in his patients. He did, though, feel they might be of some benefit in short-term use, <6 month use if it helped quit smoking, although he still would not recommend it and suggested that if it was used that the flavoring being kept to a minimum.

What was found in the flavorings that he was against? I know of 2 chemicals but most of the vendors make sure they aren't used anymore.

 

[SimpleSins]

I notice that the Boston study does not make any mention of the flavorings, and I think that's where the danger is going to lie. But it is a good start; hopefully someone will eventually take it that step further and look at everything.

 

[oettinger]

At a open air ball stadium they can kiss my ...
And they still can.

But your right, if you "shouldn't" you probably shouldn't.

I go to Ray's games, which are inside. Last time I went they would not let me take my PV into the stadium. They felt it looked too much like a bomb. (Maxi rough stack so I can see their point.)

I believe there is too much entitlement going on in this thread. The owners of these establishments have the right to make any choices they want. There is no LAW about discriminating against Vapers.

Here in Tampa they allow them in Tampa General Hospital, but that does not mean they allow them in Tropicana field. The fact is that the owner or manager needs to make the decision whether or not the people vaping are a detriment to THEIR business. Even if they just have to field questions and concerns. The manager has better things to do then explain to the self riteous in the corner that you are vaping and not smoking.

If I feel the need to vape while in a store then I will ask. The fact is for the short amount of time that I am in one I do not have the need. I can wait until I am outside or in the car.

Since the devices are legally classified as tobacco products instead of medical devices they are covered by non-smoking bans anyway.

Self absorbed entitled people are the bane to us all, whether they are the people that do not like the vaping because they think it is smoking or it is the person that fights about vaping because it is not smoking. If you want to boycott EVERY place that will not let you vape then you will have a hard road to follow. If you feel you need to whip it out in every location just because you can then you are just looking for a confrontation.

If you cannot go to a coffee shop and drink a coffee without vaping then you might want to either take the coffee to go or drink coffee at home.

 

[AttyPops]

I can only hope for the day when I walk into a restaurant and the hostess asks me "Vaping or non-vaping?". Until then, I don't (yet) vape where smoking isn't allowed simply because the "rules" are not well defined. There's a state-wide set of smoking laws in my state, so it's not a local decision with regard to smoking. IDK about vaping.....but I may change my mind when it gets colder. I agree with being polite and asking 1st.

I also agree that the outside bans are complete crap.... I've seen local sports stadiums allow charcoal grills and such for the vendors and ban smokers! The reverse ...."self-absorbed-entitled businesses" should not be able to ban vaping outdoors, in a parking lot, your car, etc.! I respect their right to refuse it inside, however, they should work on that "nasty perfume/after-shave not allowed inside" set of rules too. Where do we draw the line? I'd say at minimum, outside is fair game!

 

[ricks]

I will never go to the SMOKING section of any establishment to vape. I vape because I dont want to smoke. All my Doctors say vaping is safe so far. I vape everywhere I go and not one person has said I could not do it.

 

[intriqken]

What I object to with the Starbucks ban .... on cigs as well as e-cigs....is that they banned them OUTSIDE of their coffee shop. The local Starbucks to me is in a small strip mall with a CVS, a Ralphs, and a TJ Max as the anchors. Starbucks is one of several shops; florist, bagel, clothing, etc. that make up the rest of the strip mall. All of the eating establishments have chairs and tables in front of them bordering the walkway that runs the length of the mall. I can vape at all of them EXCEPT in front of the Starbucks. However if I were to sit at a table in front of Starbucks, I would be enveloped in the fumes of analogs from all of the other sidewalk tables.
I still believe that the outdoors is for everyone....EVERYONE

 

[Raynen]

Yes, I do agree that the ban of outside vaping is ridiculous. I must have not registered this. As long as there is smoking allowed outside of the establishment, then vaping should NOT be considered an issue. I'll vape outside of a Starbucks no problem- but wait, I don't even LIKE Starbucks

 

[want to quit]

If I was a non smoker and some guy next to me pulls out his Reo Grand or Provari when I try to enjoy my dinner in a restaurant I am sure I would not like it either so I just use my Pv's the same way I used cigarettes.

 

[oldsoldier]

If I was a non smoker and some guy next to me pulls out his Reo Grand or Provari when I try to enjoy my dinner in a restaurant I am sure I would not like it either so I just use my Pv's the same way I used cigarettes.

Common sense and common courtesy go a long way in advancing the cause. People seem to forget this in their zeal to promote vaping and lose sight that being militant tends to hurt more than help. Educate, yes - Antagonize, NO!