To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.

[wv2win]

I may have misinterpreted your stance based on earlier posts in this thread. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement that I bolded in the quote. Perhaps we are just using different words to describe the same idea

I think we agree on all the major points. The fact that you take the time to talk with the owner or manager of an establishment tells me you believe in respectfully advocating for vaping. And the fact that you don't just go to the smoking area is also completely in agreement with my position.

 

[Raynen]

I am the type of person that says please-and-thank you, opens doors, and all that stuff. I just honestly don't see the big deal in asking. To me, vaping indoors without asking is just... I don't know, it's pushy and almost showing off. Smoking analogs indoors used to be the NORM. Vaping is certainly not in the norm of main society, and trying to pressure those around us is honestly the worst way to go about it. The thing is that I would never teach someone about something without explaining it first. If they are intrigued and want to see more, than showing them is a-okay. I really dislike standing in the smoking area, for the record. I usually just vape anywhere outside and then do what I have to do indoors.

As for Starbucks, again... I boycott their COFFEE.

 

[bmwjen]

long term studies...........
Let's see, in the 1970's & 80's it was "cool" & acceptable to smoke cigarettes. Long term studies came out literally hundreds of years after people began smoking tobacco, labels were only then put on cigarette packs, voila. This "long term" research took hundreds of years to come into play. STILL cigarettes continue to be sold, regardless of the "known dangers".

If you are interested in the vaping in an indoor public place and research on it, you might look into the IVAQS Project.

If you'd like your "flavor" researched, you can contact Natures Flavors and pay them to do some research on the flavoring part of your e-liquid.

I'd like to add that i'm not a militant ecig user. I vape, just like I smoked, however & whenever. I vape at bars, restaurants, concerts, & coffee shops on the norm. Maybe it's because I don't "flaunt" it. Maybe it's because I walk in with my family and appear to be a respectable person. I think that the use of an electronic cigarette in an indoor public establishment has alot to do with how you carry yourself. AND, NO, I don't use a 510 battery when vaping, I've usually got a Reo or an Infinity with me, so i'm rather obvious.

I vape inside my Starbucks almost on the daily. They "know" me, I "know" them. They ask about my kids, I ask about theirs, we converse like old friends. I vape at the counter, and I vape at a table. I've never had a problem. I'm also part of my local Starbucks "pay it forward" thing. I buy my tea & the person behind me's stuff. Then the next person buys the next person's stuff, etc, etc. Yes, it's definitely a matter of how you carry yourself when using an electronic cigarette product.

I had an issue with Dave & Busters yesterday (another thread)........that's ok though. I've vaped there on at least 20 occasions with my family, just never part of a vape meet. Yeah, I'll continue to vape at Dave & Busters when i'm there with my family. I just won't reserve space to hold a vape meet there

Someone asked who I educate............
I educate anyone that asks. I've been asked at restaurants, waterparks, hospitals, coffee shops & bars about my mods. Here's how the conversation starts...........
him:: "I see you keep putting that thing in your mouth & this stuff is coming out, what is it?"

ding,ding,ding....................here's an opportunity to educate..........someone asked, someone is interested, someone obviously wants answers. This is a total "teaching moment" folks, grab it & run with it.

So, no, I don't stand on the mountain and preach the vape gospel.......I wait for the teaching moment to come to me and then I just go with it.

~~~~hairball, I <3 ya, let's go get some tea, hit some waterslides, then grab a pina colada afterwards (of course vaping the entire time) Don't forget to bring the Buzz with ya!

edited to add: One of the hospitals I work at allows electronic cigarettes for the patients. Of course they also offer the patch.

 

[txtumbleweed]

There are lots of hospitals that let the patients vape. I spent 14 days and nights in ICU with my brother as he was dying from a heart attack brought on from smoking for 50 years and I vaped the entire time and no one said a word to me. I didn't flaunt it but I didn't hide it either. I did demonstrate it to some of the nurses that were interested in them being as they smoked and wanted to quit. One of our members and suppliers, BillB, was recently in the hospital and they let him vape without any problems.

 

[Adrena]

Gonna push so button here but honestly...
The prob there is too many ppl/vendors/supporters are pushing E cig as a "smoke anywhere" device. And too many smokers switching to vaping to do just that! If I can get up from a movie to smoke (for 20 years) I can get up to vape. I will stand outside and put up with offensive orders to keep my PV. Or at the very least hold my breath (stealth vaping) till no cloud is produced for the one hit I just have to have (what they don't know/see wont kill them).
We're fighting a war yet ppl want to throw it in the face of ppl that are not educated. Most non smoking zealots not caring to learn. You can't force "light" to open ones eyes. We will not teach ppl in our own ignorance.
yeah for Starbucks and any other company that dose the same.

All my supplies come from vendors the don't tout the motto "smoke anywhere" that's how I win the battle.
Want to see just what action can do, open a vaping coffee house and the the vapor and bucks flow.Throw in a book store and I'm there.
We can whine or we can provide what we want for ourselves.
Stop asking the ignorant to change.... /END

 

[want to quit]

Gonna push so button here but honestly...
The prob there is too many ppl/vendors/supporters are pushing E cig as a "smoke anywhere" device. And too many smokers switching to vaping to do just that! If I can get up from a movie to smoke (for 20 years) I can get up to vape. I will stand outside and put up with offensive orders to keep my PV. Or at the very least hold my breath (stealth vaping) till no cloud is produced for the one hit I just have to have (what they don't know/see wont kill them).
We're fighting a war yet ppl want to throw it in the face of ppl that are not educated. Most non smoking zealots not caring to learn. You can't force "light" to open ones eyes. We will not teach ppl in our own ignorance.
yeah for Starbucks and any other company that dose the same.

All my supplies come from vendors the don't tout the motto "smoke anywhere" that's how I win the battle.
Want to see just what action can do, open a vaping coffee house and the the vapor and bucks flow.Throw in a book store and I'm there.
We can whine or we can provide what we want for ourselves.
Stop asking the ignorant to change.... /END

Amen to that

 

[Outre]

I haven't read through much of the forum, just for the record, but I did read the OP's post.

People will *ALWAYS* be ignorant. No matter what words come out of our mouths, if someone outright believes we're wrong about our PVs, then guess what: We are "wrong" because they think so. There is a LARGE difference between the UNinformed and the MISinformed, and it can make a world of a difference when explaining just what we do. With that said, I know that being pushy about something is never a good way to set any standards.

If I am ever in an establishment that normally would not allow smoking, I simply ask. Most common courtesy nowadays is as extinct as a dinosaur. I ask because my primary need is to be polite and my secondary is to set the fact that vaping isn't such a big deal. Yes, I'm trying to or have already quit and vaping is different in certain ways, but I can suck it up and wait until I go outside.

What I am NOT saying is to let the ignorance spread; it is extremely frustrating to read any major article about what we do, and not what we have accomplished. I am an independent individual that doesn't run exactly alongside the "norm" of society, but I've learned some things to get by without breaking down who I am. This has been applied to my PV and vaping because the last thing I need is to be shunned by my choice of quitting. I do educate as much as I can but educating about vaping should NOT be started by pushing and pressuring those who have NO idea what it is. We have to be smart but progressive and remember that information can either flow like water or spread like wildfire.

I was at the dentist, and my doctor asked me about my PV. After I kindly explained it, he had me show him right after because he was very intrigued. I'm sure he wouldn't have liked me walking in there and vaping without asking. Asking is easier than debating.

Bans, policies, and laws are mostly out of our hands, but if we are not on focus, we could easily tip the scale against our favor. We need to stand our ground from ignorance, but we also need to remember being confident and polite about what we do.

+Raynen+

This

Or, one of my favorite quotes;

“Tart words make no friends; a spoonful of honey will catch more flies than a gallon of vinegar”
~ Benjamin Franklin

 

[Winkos]

If I see you exhaling anything, smoke or vaper I do not want to inhale it. It is just gross. So I vape out of the way of others. If I am vaping anywhere close enough for you to inhale it then I would feel I have crossed the line. Do unto others.....

 

[fray]

Ban on vaping inside Starbucks = reasonable and understandable

Ban on vaping outside Starbucks = ridiculous.

I dont go to Starbucks often and when I do it's through the drive thru.

 

[Noodoggy]

What I object to with the Starbucks ban .... on cigs as well as e-cigs....is that they banned them OUTSIDE of their coffee shop. The local Starbucks to me is in a small strip mall with a CVS, a Ralphs, and a TJ Max as the anchors. Starbucks is one of several shops; florist, bagel, clothing, etc. that make up the rest of the strip mall. All of the eating establishments have chairs and tables in front of them bordering the walkway that runs the length of the mall. I can vape at all of them EXCEPT in front of the Starbucks. However if I were to sit at a table in front of Starbucks, I would be enveloped in the fumes of analogs from all of the other sidewalk tables.
I still believe that the outdoors is for everyone....EVERYONE

if that starbucks does not allow you to vape outside, then they are probably in violation of company policy. policy is that inside starbucks is smoke-free. not outside.

 

[WyattDerp]

Ban on vaping inside Starbucks = reasonable and understandable

Ban on vaping outside Starbucks = ridiculous.

I dont go to Starbucks often and when I do it's through the drive thru.

I understand what you're saying. My original response was directed toward a forum member upset that they couldn't use their PV in the store, outside was not mentioned. I know here in my town, almost all the Starbucks here have outside eating and drinking areas and were tired of kids getting hit with lit cigarettes and butts litter and junk like that to where they banned smoking outside in any form.

So the main point I meant to make is that when we have ecig users who are boycotting and petitioning for the WRONG reasons, we ultimately don't win. We make ourselves look like idiots and then no one will want to accommodate us. I give people MY opinion and information I do have on the subjects of ecig use and health issues with it and allow them to make their own decision on the matter. I respect the beliefs of others most definitely, but what I mean to say is how are ecig users who cause a ruckus or get into an argument or bombard a company with emails about them banning the use of ecigs in THEIR stores helping us make any strides?

 

[wv2win]

I understand what you're saying. My original response was directed toward a forum member upset that they couldn't use their PV in the store, outside was not mentioned. I know here in my town, almost all the Starbucks here have outside eating and drinking areas and were tired of kids getting hit with lit cigarettes and butts litter and junk like that to where they banned smoking outside in any form.

So the main point I meant to make is that when we have ecig users who are boycotting and petitioning for the WRONG reasons, we ultimately don't win. We make ourselves look like idiots and then no one will want to accommodate us. I give people MY opinion and information I do have on the subjects of ecig use and health issues with it and allow them to make their own decision on the matter. I respect the beliefs of others most definitely, but what I mean to say is how are ecig users who cause a ruckus or get into an argument or bombard a company with emails about them banning the use of ecigs in THEIR stores helping us make any strides?

Characterizing our belief, that making a clear distinction between vaping and smoking as causing a "ruckus", is completely misinterpreting what most of us have stated we do. Advocating repectfully for the "common sense" position that vaping is NOT the same as smoking, is the only sensible option to change people's uninformed perceptions that lead to "knee-jerk" actions like the bans imposed by Starbucks. Doing nothing, vaping only with smokers and acting like vaping is the same as smoking as you have inferred, will definitely reconfirm to the general public, that vaping is dangerours and needs to be banned.

 

[WyattDerp]

I at work have to go outside to use my PV with analog users. I personally asked why I had to go outside, not in a disrespectful way at all just out of inquiry as I knew there were other PV users on another floor in our company who used them at their desks. Simply stated,they do not allow dip or cigarette use on the floor either so it would not be fair for me to use my PV in our production areas if they were not allowed to. They stated that in all fairness, they respect and are glad to hear about my decision to switch to a PV but cannot justify use of an ecig on company production areas as it is NOT a smoking cessation like nicotine gum or a patch of which it's use is not visible and it would look unprofessional for Big Brother to see big plumes of vapor hanging in the air. I respect their decision, I'm not blowing up manager email everyday asking for Change or emailing my corporate offices demanding that I not have to go outside with the analog users. Besides, even if my company said it was okay, there is still the landlord for the building we rent that are not happy that nicotine is being used around their building at all. So just goes to show, even if you think you might be doing the right thing, there may be more reasons behind a decision to ban smoking or ecigs other than just to tee you off.

 

[WyattDerp]

Characterizing our belief, that making a clear distinction between vaping and smoking as causing a "ruckus", is completely misinterpreting what most of us have stated we do. Advocating repectfully for the "common sense" position that vaping is NOT the same as smoking, is the only sensible option to change people's uninformed perceptions that lead to "knee-jerk" actions like the bans imposed by Starbucks. Doing nothing, vaping only with smokers and acting like vaping is the same as smoking as you have inferred, will definitely reconfirm to the general public, that vaping is dangerours and needs to be banned.

Even if there weren't PV users that make ecigs look bad by semi-obnoxious behavior, there are still companies that will. A local chain of gas stations here and smoke shops have started carrying PV's that are disposable at a very high markup with very bad taste that they have admitted to carrying to 1)make a quick buck and 2)make sure that people are sticking with analog purchases that they will benefit from. It's not really fair to say that people who don't say anything are the reason more people categorize ecigs and smoking together. Shady retail stores as well as price gouging ecig sites I have seen are doing a whole lot more damage. Again all I'm saying, more flies with honey.

So, I have seen each and every post and I don't feel I've misinterpreted any one of them at all. I respect and value the view of each person. All I am saying is if you have a beef, ask why respectfully instead of taking to the forums and your emails to corporate offices of each of those locations you have a problem with and stating that you are only boycotting them of an issue with ecig use, not their product. Besides, in reference to my paragraph above, if some people didn't honestly believe that ecigs were better for you than smoking, why discourage people from buying them instead of offering replacement parts and eliquids at gas stations at a high markup which would be even more lucrative for some of them? We've already made our point clear in a lot of places, a lot of venues, a lot of newstories. We aren't standing back doing nothing, but Rome wasn't built in a day either. I'm not putting my head in the sand but I'm not going to act with anything less than respect when it comes to accepting someone or some company's decision.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

To a business, only way to get the message across is to speak with your wallet. If Starbucks management looks across the street at a different coffee shop full of vapers while they are having a slow day, people will take note.

 

[SimpleSins]

if that starbucks does not allow you to vape outside, then they are probably in violation of company policy. policy is that inside starbucks is smoke-free. not outside.

That would depend on where the Starbucks is and where their tables are set up. I believe all of California does not allow smoking within 25 feet of a doorway. And Starbucks as a company apparently includes vaping in the same category as smoking, so whatever rules they choose to apply- and they can indeed forbid its use on their property, be it indoors or outdoors.

 

[wv2win]

Even if there weren't PV users that make ecigs look bad by semi-obnoxious behavior, there are still companies that will. A local chain of gas stations here and smoke shops have started carrying PV's that are disposable at a very high markup with very bad taste that they have admitted to carrying to 1)make a quick buck and 2)make sure that people are sticking with analog purchases that they will benefit from. It's not really fair to say that people who don't say anything are the reason more people categorize ecigs and smoking together. Shady retail stores as well as price gouging ecig sites I have seen are doing a whole lot more damage. Again all I'm saying, more flies with honey.

So, I have seen each and every post and I don't feel I've misinterpreted any one of them at all. I respect and value the view of each person. All I am saying is if you have a beef, ask why respectfully instead of taking to the forums and your emails to corporate offices of each of those locations you have a problem with and stating that you are only boycotting them of an issue with ecig use, not their product. Besides, in reference to my paragraph above, if some people didn't honestly believe that ecigs were better for you than smoking, why discourage people from buying them instead of offering replacement parts and eliquids at gas stations at a high markup which would be even more lucrative for some of them? We've already made our point clear in a lot of places, a lot of venues, a lot of newstories. We aren't standing back doing nothing, but Rome wasn't built in a day either. I'm not putting my head in the sand but I'm not going to act with anything less than respect when it comes to accepting someone or some company's decision.

This is the most convoluted, hard to follow post, I have read in quite a while. I have no idea what gas stations selling poor quality PV's has to do with Starbucks banning the use of PV's or us as vapers, advocating respectfully for vaping rights. And no one is suggesting that anyone argue with their employer over the use of PV's in their workplace. They are almost assuredly misguided in blanketly banning their use, (unless there is a safety reason based on the type of job) but it is not an issue that anyone should lose their job over, so discretion is wise. (how could one buy more vaping supplies if they are out of work?)

But the more of us who challenge respectfully "knee-jerk" bans on vaping in public establishments by talking to management, sending letters/emails and explaining the benefits/differences of vaping in comparison to smoking, is the only way to slowly change the uninformed person(s) perception. In the Starbucks example, your position is to do nothing AND to continue to support Starbucks by buying their products. That will do nothing but confirm to Starbucks that they were correct to ban vaping inside and OUTSIDE of their locations.

 

[Linden]

I think that if we don't speak up and differentiate vaping from smoking, it will become status quo to lump the two together. I would like to see more people switch to vaping but they won't if they continually recieve messages (due to these bans) that it is somehow just as bad as smoking.
It will take increased pressure and advocation on our part as these bans become more popular at the government and corporate level. THAT is where we need to focus our attention. Openly vaping where there is already an e-cig ban does nothing but make some poor manager have a bad day (although if we are lucky we will catch the attention of a possible convert and save a life!)
I think the starbucks campaign is GREAT because it addresses things at a corporate level which is just what we need to be doing. Change the policy at the level that the policy is made.

 

[wv2win]

I think that if we don't speak up and differentiate vaping from smoking, it will become status quo to lump the two together. I would like to see more people switch to vaping but they won't if they continually recieve messages (due to these bans) that it is somehow just as bad as smoking.
It will take increased pressure and advocation on our part as these bans become more popular at the government and corporate level. THAT is where we need to focus our attention. Openly vaping where there is already an e-cig ban does nothing but make some poor manager have a bad day (although if we are lucky we will catch the attention of a possible convert and save a life!)
I think the starbucks campaign is GREAT because it addresses things at a corporate level which is just what we need to be doing. Change the policy at the level that the policy is made.

Well stated, good points.

 

[Levitas]

<snip> Doing nothing, vaping only with smokers and acting like vaping is the same as smoking as you have inferred, will definitely reconfirm to the general public, that vaping is dangerours and needs to be banned.

First off, are you claiming that vaping is perfectly safe? How does doing nothing about a ban of using your pv at Starbucks reconfirm to anyone at all that vaping is dangerous and needs to be banned? How does that make any sense?

Why is it such a big deal to have to have the ability to vape in every establishment we visit? I have no problem vaping in my home, outside, in my car... I do not need to vape while in Starbucks, a Gas station, or even a restaurant, I can wait that extra 10 minutes to an hour to vape.

In time, when more detailed studies have been conducted on the effects of vaping on ourselves and those around us (long term), then protesting to your local Starbucks will not be necassary. You claim that we need to inform those who do not wish to be informed, to protect our right to have the ability to vape in an establishment in which some of the patrons there do not wish to be around it, and if we do not do this, this will inform everyone that vaping is dangerous and deserves to be banned?