To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.

[Colonel]

Your underwriter wasn't entirely truthful. They can tell the difference between someone that smokes and someone that uses just nicotine, just not using continine testing since that tests for nicotine. CO testing would test for smoke. There is a thread, I believe under news where a person was buying life insurance and they weren't considered smokers as users of E Cigs.

I believe the company was American Income life insurance company, I think. Perhaps a search would find it.

Underwriting is specific company to company. Mine uses the cotinine test for nicotine. They can not differentiate between delivery methods. Like chew and snus. Even nic gum and patches. They group them all together. Oh well. The medical screening was done at my office. HIV test, urine and blood pressure. That was it.

 

[Colonel]

Hmmm, now would a non-smoker, who lives in a house with a number of smokers, test positive for nicotine from the second-hand smoke?

Nope. Lol. First hand experience.

 

[Levitas]

Ok. So one someone doesn't agree. Let him vape at home. Done deal. that's great for them. I'm fine with that.

lol, I couldn't see this post you responded to, because of the nifty ignore feature.

Let me just clarify myself, I do not believe it's right to vape around people who have no desire to be around it, regardless of health issues. I will not vape in public establishments until we know 100% for how safe or not it is to do so. If the establishment allows vaping, I have no problem with that, go for the gold. I will most likely not vape in there, because I do not find the need to vape every second of every day, but that's just me.

I do not believe that vaping is at all as dangerous as smoking cigarettes. I never have said this, nor have I ever believed it. Any who would say that I do, is doing nothing but trying "stir the pot", or judge falsely. Why would anyone wish to do this? I dunno, it shows a severe lack of integrity and respect. Personally, I wouldn't want someone with these characteristics speaking for me.

You wish to vape in public, go ahead, I'm not saying stop. Do I feel that it is disrespectful in some aspects to vape in some indoor establishments, yep! But, why would anyone care if I feel that way? Would I vape in public? Only when we know 100% how safe it actually is or isn't. Does anyone disagree, and know 100% for sure how safe vaping is or isn't at this time? Anyone?

 

[Colonel]

That sounds like a serious need to ban perfume and peanuts, both proven to not be safe for everyone.

True true. Lol. We asked a woman wearing obscene amounts of perfume to wait outside our office once. The customer service girl was sneezing uncontrollably.

Ugh. In Disney, every time you sit down to eat a meal the wait staff goes through this 15 minute speech about peanuts and peanut oil and stuff. I sat next to a family once that had to have a completely custom meal made off site because the kid was so allergic to peanuts that they didn't even want his food in the same kitchen for fear of a single drop of peanut oil.

Lol. My cousin has a custom cooler and brings his own food everywhere he goes. He is deathly allergic to tomatoes, nuts, dairy. Almost everything. He eats meat (no fish) rice and veggies. That's about it.

Sounds like some places do take it that seriously.

 

[Colonel]

lol, I couldn't see this post you responded to, because of the nifty ignore feature.

Let me just clarify myself, I do not believe it's right to vape around people who have no desire to be around it, regardless of health issues. I will not vape in public establishments until we know 100% for how safe or not it is to do so. If the establishment allows vaping, I have no problem with that, go for the gold. I will most likely not vape in there, because I do not find the need to vape every second of every day, but that's just me.

I do not believe that vaping is at all as dangerous as smoking cigarettes. I never have said this, nor have I ever believed it. Any who would say that I do, is doing nothing but trying "stir the pot", or judge falsely. Why would anyone wish to do this? I dunno, it shows a severe lack of integrity and respect. Personally, I wouldn't want someone with these characteristics speaking for me.

You wish to vape in public, go ahead, I'm not saying stop. Do I feel that it is disrespectful in some aspects to vape in some indoor establishments, yep! But, why would anyone care if I feel that way? Would I vape in public? Only when we know 100% how safe it actually is or isn't. Does anyone disagree, and know 100% for sure how safe vaping is or isn't at this time? Anyone?

Good opinion. And of course because it doesn't effect me in the slightest, even better.

I think I look at this just about the same way. I don't mind not vaping in public. I can last hours without it.
Buy oh baby, when I do vape, haha. It's on! Drip drip drip drip. 3 carto's with me for the 20 minute commute home. For when I can't drip.

 

[Noodoggy]

this thread is going on so long...i am getting to this point...

all of yall take out your PV and vape your ash off! jeez...sounds like nobody is getting enough nicotine lol

(replays all the "quitting" days in my head and all the arguments with my wife over the stupidest stuff)

may your vaping be long lasting!

 

[Colonel]

this thread is going on so long...i am getting to this point...

all of yall take out your PV and vape your ash off! jeez...sounds like nobody is getting enough nicotine lol

(replays all the "quitting" days in my head and all the arguments with my wife over the stupidest stuff)

may your vaping be long lasting!

Haha. My wife hated my smoking. Now I quit and started vaping, she gives me grief about where I buy my liquid.."how do you know it's not some guy mixing the stuff in his basement?!". Lmao. Um. It probably is. And I love it. Lol. She didn't think that was funny.

Ps. Hitting the dekang hard right now.

 

[swedishfish]

lol, I couldn't see this post you responded to, because of the nifty ignore feature.

Let me just clarify myself, I do not believe it's right to vape around people who have no desire to be around it, regardless of health issues. I will not vape in public establishments until we know 100% for how safe or not it is to do so. If the establishment allows vaping, I have no problem with that, go for the gold. I will most likely not vape in there, because I do not find the need to vape every second of every day, but that's just me.

I do not believe that vaping is at all as dangerous as smoking cigarettes. I never have said this, nor have I ever believed it. Any who would say that I do, is doing nothing but trying "stir the pot", or judge falsely. Why would anyone wish to do this? I dunno, it shows a severe lack of integrity and respect. Personally, I wouldn't want someone with these characteristics speaking for me.

You wish to vape in public, go ahead, I'm not saying stop. Do I feel that it is disrespectful in some aspects to vape in some indoor establishments, yep! But, why would anyone care if I feel that way? Would I vape in public? Only when we know 100% how safe it actually is or isn't. Does anyone disagree, and know 100% for sure how safe vaping is or isn't at this time? Anyone?

I agree with your post for the most part. I'm not going to get into the whole 'is it safe' issue because that makes me a little crazy.

Regarding the topic of this thread- and that's what I'm posting about. No, I don't think vaping should be part of the blanket smoking ban. The smoking ban was put into place not because of annoyance of odors or whatever, it was put into place because of second hand smoke. Except for trace amounts of nicotine as far as I know, none of the ingredients are in ecigs as are in cigarettes that caused the ban.

 

[rothenbj]

Oh my god, call the FDA!

ZeroToys.com - FAQ

And get them outside and out of the hands of the children!

 

[Colonel]

Just passing by PG on wiki and found this interesting:

"Exposure to mists may cause eye irritation, as well as upper respiratory tract irritation. Inhalation of the propylene glycol vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of propylene glycol mists could be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided. Some research has suggested that propylene glycol not be used in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations."

I don't think Wikipedia is a really official site. So I'll let everyone decide what they want. I just thought it was interesting. That was the only mention of inhalation. The rest is about ingestion (no risk) and possibility of skin irritation (I'm guessing the same possibility of any lotion containing it to irritate the skin) of course I don't think that applies to PV conversation.

 

[Colonel]

Oh my god, call the FDA!

ZeroToys.com - FAQ

And get them outside and out of the hands of the children!

Priceless. Don't call the FDA. Call a modder and get me a 510 adapter for that thing!

I'm stealing that link for future reference.

 

[wv2win]

Why would anyone assume that vaping is not safe for others? Has it been proven that it is not safe? Is there any evidence that it is not safe? From every test conducted, even by the FDA, there are no carcinogenetic substances in eliquid that is considered "not safe" for humans and none at all in the vapor. So because it looks similar to a supposedly (second-hand) unsafe activity for others, that is the reason it must be considered unsafe, even though all studies conducted state otherwise?

Who has the professional credentials to state that the studies done by the FDA, UV, AAPHA and NZ, are all faulty and incorrect in their conclusions?

 

[Colonel]

Why would anyone assume that vaping is not safe for others? Has it been proven that it is not safe? Is there any evidence that it is not safe? From every test conducted, even by the FDA, there are no carcinogenetic substances in eliquid that is considered "not safe" for humans and none at all in the vapor. So because it looks similar to a supposedly (second-hand) unsafe activity for others, that is the reason it must be considered unsafe, even though all studies conducted state otherwise?

Who has the professional credentials to state that the studies done by the FDA, UV and in NZ by a doctor who is quite anti smoking, are all faulty and incorrect in their conclusions?

Dude. Thats exactly right. The reason people assume it is unsafe is because it looks like smoking. And they don't believe the reports because they have never seen them.

The question is the opposite. Why would a non smoker who has never seen a PV or read an article on it think it is safe?

I think it's obvious that anyone who is a non smoker who does not like smoking will absolutely assume vaping is not safe.

 

[rothenbj]

Take those candles outside, they are toxic-

Could scented candles kill you? They're many women's favourite indulgence | Mail Online

BBC NEWS | Health | Church air is 'threat to health'

 

[Colonel]

Yeah. I found hundreds of articles regarding PG or as they called it, antifreeze. Lol

Don't forget your butter creme cake. Most cake flavors are made with alcohol, but the butters are usually PG carried.

I wonder what's in those pastries under the sneeze guard at Starbucks?

 

[swedishfish]

Dude. Thats exactly right. The reason people assume it is unsafe is because it looks like smoking. And they don't believe the reports because they have never seen them.

The question is the opposite. Why would a non smoker who has never seen a PV or read an article on it think it is safe?

I think it's obvious that anyone who is a non smoker who does not like smoking will absolutely assume vaping is not safe.

People in this very thread, people vaping are saying it. Or not proven to be safe. So, what's the issue. It's not the nicotine-

Read Placebo Effect's post-

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ent-advocacy-casaa-members-7.html#post3621166

 

[rothenbj]

And lets not forget the dangers, both inside and out, that risk not only our lives but the lives of our children-

Breathe Healthy Air: What's In That Wood Smoke?

Breathe Healthy Air

Done having fun for the night........I think

 

[WAC_Vet]

Nope. Lol. First hand experience.

Well that answers one question, seems the majority of the nicotine is absorbed by the person inhaling it. So, now we need to find out if VG vapor causes a problem. We already know PG is used safely in fog machines. Oh wait, VG can also be safely used in fog machines...duh. Ok, so now we have to find out about the flavors. Many people use these flavors in hot items that may actually steam.....are they dropping dead from the "first hand" vaporized flavoring? How many Chefs have shown signs of serious medical conditions from vaporized flavoring? I honestly don't have the answer, but I'm sure we would see something about it, if it's happening.

Let's get back to teas.... that's an interesting subject, produces a vapor, that many of us inhale. I love smelling my mango, cinnamon apple, nana, teas....they all produce a vapor, and I just love smelling them. The cinnamon apple contains cinnamon, hibiscus flowers, chamomile flowers, roasted chicory root, allspice, orange peel, roasted carob, apple flavor and other flavors. Oh wait, I use splenda, so that would also be in the vapor that comes off my teas. My mango tea contains rosehips, hibiscus flowers, orange peel, roasted chicory root, licorice root, natural mango flavoring, with other "natural flavoring"... and soy lecithin.

What about hot chocolate. I don't know many people who don't inhale that wonderful hot vapor!! Let's see what's in some hot chocolate mixes....Sugar, corn syrup, cocoa (process with ALKALI), hydronated coconut oil, nonfat dry milk, natural flavor, carrageen, salt, dipotassium phosphate, mono and diglycerides. We start inhaling that as little children! Oh, let's not even mention the whipped cream we put in it...yep, becomes part of the vapor.

None of the above teas, or hot chocolate have warnings against inhalation of the vapor, first hand vapor at that, not vapor that went through a human's lungs and was exhaled.

The more I check into it, the more I am convinced that our second-hand vapor is safe. I may not be as sure that our first hand vapor is completely safe, but the only negatives I've found were E-Cigarettes Cause Acute Health Risks | Tobacco Facts. which had me in stitches laughing, and one death, from lipoid pneumonia, which is a result of lipid aspiration (fats/oils) Wardley man's death linked to using e-cigarettes - Today's News - News - JournalLive You would think, in 8 years since PVs have been out, the smoke Nazis would have found something more than what I've found!

Here's an interesting article from 2009 Electronic Cigarette Interview with Dr Joel Nitzkin — TobaccoToday

 

[Colonel]

People in this very thread, people vaping are saying it. Or not proven to be safe. So, what's the issue. It's not the nicotine-

Read Placebo Effect's post-

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ent-advocacy-casaa-members-7.html#post3621166

Just ran through that whole thread. It's great. A bit discouraging. But great. Thanks for posting that.

 

[wv2win]

Dude. Thats exactly right. The reason people assume it is unsafe is because it looks like smoking. And they don't believe the reports because they have never seen them.

The question is the opposite. Why would a non smoker who has never seen a PV or read an article on it think it is safe?

I think it's obvious that anyone who is a non smoker who does not like smoking will absolutely assume vaping is not safe.

Thanks for providing the perfect set-up. They ".../u/me" and we know what that means. Never read an article that shows safety although they are there. So what have we been saying? Advocate and educate. Quite simple and the course of action needed to bring vaping into the main stream in a positive light. Thanks again for leading us to the right conclusion.