Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Michael Friel]

My process is a bit different but I will first answer your main question.
I go by smell. Once I can no longer detect the smell of alcohol I'm good.

Genius! Why didn't I realize that! Of course! lol. It is so simple, and it was there right under my nose the whole damn time haha.
I appreciate your (AND ALL THE OTHER PREVIOUS REPLIERS!) reply, and I admire your patience to accomplish this at room temperature. I don't have that kind of patience, but I'm glad you remarked about the three day freezing time, because I was tempted to take my jar out of the freezer tomorrow, but now I'll likely leave it in for a couple more days just to get the sludge to freeze onto the sides and filter itself into a cleaner vape in the long run.
Much thanks for your sagacity and wisdom. There really needs to be a compilation video made of this process that covers the various methods and techniques. There's really nothing definitive out there. It's like this is secret knowledge, almost. Maybe it's best that way, after all, there IS a danger of flammability to this.
but anyways:
again I thank you all! Happy vaping.

 

[jonnydoe]

use PGA, sugars dont dissolve easily into PGA.

I am using ethanol but i want to kill more of the sweetness. I have tried bitter wizard but the taste is not what i want.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I am using ethanol but i want to kill more of the sweetness. I have tried bitter wizard but the taste is not what i want.

PGA= ethanol
maybe try finding a similar tobacco that hasnt been cased?? I find that the ones that are cased ( flavored) tend to be on the sweet side, but the non cased have more earthy flavors.... burleys and cavendish are more to my liking...

 

[jonnydoe]

I am extracting only rolling tobaccos without any adds. I have asked the same question in a chemical board and the answer was, that by freeze filtering we are separating glucose.

Str8 has had an super idea with this method !

I can choose a tobacco with less sugar as for example american spirit organic but i want to separate the fructose. This would be very interesting. Its not only the sweetness i want to separate. Without any sugar we would have an home made juice with less gunk. I am thinking that sugar is caramelizing by heating and that this could be reason for gunk.

 

[jonnydoe]

Have someone ever done a hot pg extraction with freeze filtering ?

 

[Boxster]

Have someone ever done a hot pg extraction with freeze filtering ?

I've tried to freeze filter (2um) a cold PG extraction. It takes a very long time. I was getting a drop every few of hours. I gave up after a couple of days. I think you would need to have a vacuum or pressure system to make it work.

 

[jonnydoe]

I have made some hot pg extractions and i have filtered them direct after the heating with a 2,5 um filterpaper. I has taken 3 days and i have changed the filters after one day. It works but it need time and more filter papers.

But i havent freezed them. I want to know if the sugars are declining to the ground of the jars as they do with pga. I am thinking that the sugars are the reason for gunk and i want to kill them.

 

[Michael Friel]

PROGRESS REPORT
A few days ago, I made a tobacco extract for eliquid using ethanol, first heated at low temperature, then put in the freezer for three days to filter out any gunk. I produced the three bottles shown here (30 ml+30 ml+25 ml).

The problem I have is taste. When I dilute them in VG and PG and use the extract at 20 percent,
I'm getting a strange problem that I'm not sure the cause of... after about ten minutes (or less) of vaping the eliquid, the sweetness goes away completely and I'm left with a PURE SMOKINESS that is most un-palatable.
I haven't figured out if this if from the dilution of 20 percent being too strong and it overwhelming the mix, or if it might be from sludge particulates actually wrecking the wick (as you can see, the liquid is pretty dark, and may be pretty hard on a wick) . It's hard to discern.
Has anybody ever experienced this particular problem? I'm thinking of making a bottle with 10 percent extract to see if it improves.

 

[Boxster]

How much did you reduce the alcohol from the extract after filtering?
Did you dilute (with PG) any after reduction?
Off hand I would say 20% i s way to high.

My typical extraction: I use 8oz jars
Remove the tobacco: filtering with coffee filter resulting with 6oz (180ml) of non-reduced extract
Freeze and filter with 2um filter.
Reduce 90% to 95% yielding ~15ml of super concentrated extract.
Dilute with about 45ml of PG resulting in 60ml of concentrated extract.
I use this extract at 6 to 15 percent of final mix.

I recommend starting at a low percentage and working up. You can always add more.

PROGRESS REPORT
A few days ago, I made a tobacco extract for eliquid using ethanol, first heated at low temperature, then put in the freezer for three days to filter out any gunk. I produced the three bottles shown here (30 ml+30 ml+25 ml).

View attachment 536779

The problem I have is taste. When I dilute them in VG and PG and use the extract at 20 percent,
I'm getting a strange problem that I'm not sure the cause of... after about ten minutes (or less) of vaping the eliquid, the sweetness goes away completely and I'm left with a PURE SMOKINESS that is most un-palatable.
I haven't figured out if this if from the dilution of 20 percent being too strong and it overwhelming the mix, or if it might be from sludge particulates actually wrecking the wick (as you can see, the liquid is pretty dark, and may be pretty hard on a wick) . It's hard to discern.
Has anybody ever experienced this particular problem? I'm thinking of making a bottle with 10 percent extract to see if it improves.

 

[Michael Friel]

I began with a 13 oz bag of pipe tobacco. I divided the tobacco between two sanitized Prego spaghetti jars and filled them both with ethanol (everclear -not the best proof'ed one; I can't obtain that here, but I still had the 75% alcohol version).
I put the tobacco/ethanol mix into a slow cooker and set it on low for a three-day period, stirring occassionally.
Then, I used a strainer and coffee filters to seperate the tobacco from the ethanol and when that was accomplished, I put one jar of remaining ethanol into the freezer.
After 48 hours of freezing, I filtered it again with a funnel and coffee filters and put the remainder in a metal bowl, which I then placed into a bigger pan full of water to begin the boiling off process.
I babied it for somewhere in the neighborhood of an hour and a half until all the alcohol smell had left the extract. It yielded about 30% of the original total I started with.
I was concerned about such a large remainder, but I double checked by smelling, and all of the alcohol had boiled off completely, I am sure of it.
Thanks for the explanation of your process. I'll try it at a lower ratio asap. I also gotta get some of that micro-filter paper stuff and see how it works.

 

[jonnydoe]

after about ten minutes (or less) of vaping the eliquid, the sweetness goes away completely and I'm left with a PURE SMOKINESS that is most un-palatable.

Is it a disgusting burning taste ? If yes, your vaporizer is dry because the juice can not flow undisturbed. This mistake comes if you are using too much vg or if your havent filtered your extract corectly or too much extract.

I am reducing my extract in the oven mixed with 20ml pg and after 5-6 hours of reducing i am filtering it through a 2,5 mycrometer paper. I am using 10% extract in all my juices.

 

[Boxster]

WOW! That's a lot of tobacco. I typically only extract less than 2oz at a time.
2oz of tobacco in a PG extraction yields about 120ml of extract.
Mixed at 15% yields almost 800ml of finished juice.

A 70% reduction makes sense since the alcohol you used is over 25% water.
You might consider a road trip to a neighboring state.

Did you monitor the temperature? My wife's slow cooker heats over 170 degrees F even at the "warm" setting. Bacteria begins to grow on food below 165 degrees F which is why most slow cookers don't have lower temperature settings.
Caramelization of sugar in cooking is around 320 degrees F, but scientist are finding sugars begin to chemically change at much lower temperatures.
"Now we know that you can caramelize low and very slow and get something different. Sugar breakdown even occurs at ambient storage temperatures, though it takes months for the discoloration and flavor change to become noticeable."

Caramelization: new science, new possibilities

This is one of the reasons I prefer to do cold extractions.

I began with a 13 oz bag of pipe tobacco. I divided the tobacco between two sanitized Prego spaghetti jars and filled them both with ethanol (everclear -not the best proof'ed one; I can't obtain that here, but I still had the 75% alcohol version).
I put the tobacco/ethanol mix into a slow cooker and set it on low for a three-day period, stirring occassionally.
Then, I used a strainer and coffee filters to seperate the tobacco from the ethanol and when that was accomplished, I put one jar of remaining ethanol into the freezer.
After 48 hours of freezing, I filtered it again with a funnel and coffee filters and put the remainder in a metal bowl, which I then placed into a bigger pan full of water to begin the boiling off process.
I babied it for somewhere in the neighborhood of an hour and a half until all the alcohol smell had left the extract. It yielded about 30% of the original total I started with.
I was concerned about such a large remainder, but I double checked by smelling, and all of the alcohol had boiled off completely, I am sure of it.
Thanks for the explanation of your process. I'll try it at a lower ratio asap. I also gotta get some of that micro-filter paper stuff and see how it works.

 

[Michael Friel]

How do you use these filter papers, exactly? Do you put it in a device or just use it over a funnel (seems clumsy) or what?

 

[aceswired]

Some do elaborate. I do clumsy. It still gets the job done.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[usr/]

How do you use these filter papers, exactly? Do you put it in a device or just use it over a funnel (seems clumsy) or what?

It's basically a high tech coffee filter. Some way to hold the filter is all. Some use an Aeropress with the filters cut to fit. They could be crammed into a jar with the edges folded over the top of the jar to hold it. All purpose funnels will work. I use one of these with 15 cm dia. for the 2.5 micron paper and 18.5 cm dia. with 1.5 micron paper. The larger diameter paper allows me to get all or most of the extract in it in one pour. Plus it makes a great cup o' joe!
Cover and gravity (except with the Aeropress) does the rest.

 

[Boxster]

I like the Aeropress since it enables me to use a much smaller (7cm) filter.
Also the press makes it easy to squeeze out the last few ml of extract from the tobacco. I don't trim the filter. I just press-fit the filter into 63mm basket.

It's basically a high tech coffee filter. Some way to hold the filter is all. Some use an Aeropress with the filters cut to fit. They could be crammed into a jar with the edges folded over the top of the jar to hold it. All purpose funnels will work. I use one of these with 15 cm dia. for the 2.5 micron paper and 18.5 cm dia. with 1.5 micron paper. The larger diameter paper allows me to get all or most of the extract in it in one pour. Plus it makes a great cup o' joe!
Cover and gravity (except with the Aeropress) does the rest.

 

[jonnydoe]

Was it a disgusting burning taste or not ?

I am folding a round 2-3 mycrometer paperfilter and put the folded filter directly in the neck of an empty jar.

 

[Michael Friel]

I did a little test that c.f. onfirms for me that my problem is lack of good filtering: I took a q-tip and cleaned the top of my wick where the little metal grating is, and after giving it a cursory wiping, the sweet flavor returned again, briefly. Proof enough that my problem is the need of gpod filtering.
I wanna thank all of you guys for replying! You've been an excellent and prompt resource for helping this newb understand the tools & tech for bettering my product. I couldn't have done this without your guidance and experiential wisdom.
You guys rock. I'll keep ya posted when I go to filter this extract again and attempt to improve upon it.... thanks again.

 

[Michael Friel]

. I use one of these with 15 cm dia. for the 2.5 micron paper and 18.5 cm dia. with 1.5 micron paper. The larger diameter paper allows me to get all or most of the extract in it in one pour. Plus it makes a great cup o' joe!
Cover and gravity (except with the Aeropress) does the rest.

You're using two filters, the 2.5 micron first, then the 1.5 micron at the end? Why the bigger filter? Can you explain your process little better?
The filters are a little more expensive than I'd hoped and I can only see them in quantities of 100 or more, which sucks. Is there a way to get them in lesser quantities than 100?

 

[usr/]

You're using two filters, the 2.5 micron first, then the 1.5 micron at the end? Why the bigger filter? Can you explain your process little better?
The filters are a little more expensive than I'd hoped and I can only see them in quantities of 100 or more, which sucks. Is there a way to get them in lesser quantities than 100?

I just bought the bigger size so that I can pour all the extract in at one time. Yeah they're pricy now. I paid 15 bucks for the 2.5 Ahlstrom filters back in early 2014 and they're 47 bucks now! Ouch! I started using the 1.5 filters last year just to see if a finer filter helped with gunking any. I think it did, some, but I think mixing at lower percentages, spaced coil and now using Rayon helped more than anything.