Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[dannyv45]

Coagulated tobacco must be brown or not ?

Not in my case they were a greyish white. It happens with certain brands of whole leaf tobacco. They were done in PG. If you've ever done a PGA heat and freeze extraction it's the same material that sinks to the bottom after a 48 hour freeze process.

 

[jonnydoe]

Strange thing with the color. I will see what happens with ethanol pured glas bottle in some weeks. Perhaps it was no mold. I dont know, it was looking bad. I am not a specialist.

 

[brianc11111]

read this entire thread tonight and am going to try it on my next day off.
just completed a 2month cold pg extract the other day and it was great.
went out and bought 3oz of an English pipe mix today and im really excited..
all I need now is the everclear and im ready to go!!

 

[rolf]

read this entire thread tonight and am going to try it on my next day off.
just completed a 2month cold pg extract the other day and it was great.
went out and bought 3oz of an English pipe mix today and im really excited..
all I need now is the everclear and im ready to go!!

hi brianc
so which temp and time you are going to use ?
and for how long at that heat ?then how long steeping before freeze filtering ?
the times and temps seem to be of different oppinneons .
got an temp controller in for my crock pot .also working on a small distiller .

 

[brianc11111]

being my first heat extraction im open for suggestions, but i was
planning on 150-160 degrees and for 12 hours once i reach temperature.
i was going to freeze directly after heating is over, and will freeze for
24 hours and refreeze after filtering.
i dont have a temp controller, but have a good thermometer.
so i will have to do it on my next day off, which will be on the 27th.
i would like to get an aeropress and 2-5 micron filters in the meantime.
i plan on getting another type of pipe tobacco and do 2 samples.
im thinking on macbarens hh acadian perique.
i have an empty tin of it next to me and it still smells wonderfull!

 

[rolf]

being my first heat extraction im open for suggestions, but i was
planning on 150-160 degrees and for 12 hours once i reach temperature.
i was going to freeze directly after heating is over, and will freeze for
24 hours and refreeze after filtering.
i dont have a temp controller, but have a good thermometer.
so i will have to do it on my next day off, which will be on the 27th.
i would like to get an aeropress and 2-5 micron filters in the meantime.
i plan on getting another type of pipe tobacco and do 2 samples.
im thinking on macbarens hh acadian perique.
i have an empty tin of it next to me and it still smells wonderfull!

I was going to go with a little lower temp and longer times . but might change my mind.
going to look into filtering some more . was going to use a coffee filter , a layer of cotton and another coffee filter like a sandwich . but your idea might be better . until I finish my still I will have a hard time to get 190 proof pga .
also looking for a local source of different tobaccos . maybe have to drive to another state.

 

[Boxster]

@rolf
According to Wiki it is legal for liquor stores to sell PGA in Washington state.
Talk:Everclear (alcohol) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Apparently the problem is finding stores that stock PGA.
Try to see if a store owner can special order for you.

I don't thing trying to filter with cotton is a good idea. You won't really reduce the gunky much, and will only waste extract. You can get 2um filters for less than 22 cents each. The only issue is you have to buy by the 100, but really that's the price you would pay for ~45ml of retail juice. With one filter you can get enough extract to make hundreds of ml's of juice. These work great in an Aeropress.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006H8QXUK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01

I was going to go with a little lower temp and longer times . but might change my mind.
going to look into filtering some more . was going to use a coffee filter , a layer of cotton and another coffee filter like a sandwich . but your idea might be better . until I finish my still I will have a hard time to get 190 proof pga .
also looking for a local source of different tobaccos . maybe have to drive to another state.

 

[samarthshaw]

@Str8vision
after the alcohol extraction , after the whole freezing and filtration process, when i mix the extract at 5 to 7 % with pg/vg and nic do i need to heat the mixed e-liquid again to evaporate the alcohol before i steep for 3 months or shud i just steep the e-liquid with the alcohol in it.
thanks in advance

 

[Michael Friel]

Okay guys, I need your help here, because I THOUGHT I knew what I was doing, but now I am COMPLETELY CONFUSED about this process. Last week, I made my first tobacco extract of some Super Value Black Cavendish pipe tobacco I had laying around. I used 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, and mashed/mixed it together with the tobac, then heated it on a stovetop pan inside a pan full of water until the alcohol boiled off, giving me a small amount of extract and moderate success. I made three bottles of sloppily constructed e-juice with the stuff using VG, but it's sludgy (I DID filter it; but still...) and not as strong on taste as I think it could be.

Cut to NOW: I have at present; two spaghetti sauce jars filled with a mixture of Black Cavendish pipe tobacco and Everclear (151 proof, 75% alcohol, unfortunately) sitting in a crock pot that is filled with water to the level of the contents of the said jars. They are on low heat. I am only warming the jars to aid in the extraction process, not ready yet to turn up the heat and finally evaporate off the alcohol. I plan on having them on heat for about 3 days.

My problem is two-fold:
1. The Everclear is not the strongest brand they make, and I mistook it for such. What can I do to alleviate that problem? Will the water present in the alcohol cause me problems? What should I do about this?
2. After I slow-cook this mixture for three days (or however long my patience lasts!) and I then filter out the tobacco from the ethanol using a strainer and coffee filters, how do I know when the evaporation of the alcohol is OVER? At what point is the process FINISHED? is there a way of knowing this?

Any help you can give me regarding these two questions is much appreciated, because I'd love to be able to get as much extract as possible and negate any undue losses due to over-evaporation. Thanks!

 

[Bunnykiller]

hmmm ok, get a crockpot first off... when soaking the tobacco in everclear ( PGA) dont agitate the mixture, let it soak quietly. Agitation creates gunk... try to keep the temp at 150F, above 170 during the soak causes bitterness to appear. Once heated for how ever long you wish ( I find 18-24 hrs plenty) filter the PGA from the tobacco. Freeze extract for several hours to allow for solids to drop out and also to remove oils/waxes, refilter. Place extract into a bowl ( SS) and place/float bowl on top of water in crockpot, try to keep water temp around 160F to evap off 75% or so of PGA, this concentrates the extract.... it will darken and become somewhat thicker... this is what is added to the VG/PG/Nic. Experiment with the % of extract to the base for your flavor preference ( I like 10-20% depending on the tobacco)

 

[Michael Friel]

hmmm ok, get a crockpot first off... when soaking the tobacco in everclear ( PGA) dont agitate the mixture, let it soak quietly. Agitation creates gunk... try to keep the temp at 150F, above 170 during the soak causes bitterness to appear. Once heated for how ever long you wish ( I find 18-24 hrs plenty) filter the PGA from the tobacco. Freeze extract for several hours to allow for solids to drop out and also to remove oils/waxes, refilter. Place extract into a bowl ( SS) and place/float bowl on top of water in crockpot, try to keep water temp around 160F to evap off 75% or so of PGA, this concentrates the extract.... it will darken and become somewhat thicker... this is what is added to the VG/PG/Nic. Experiment with the % of extract to the base for your flavor preference ( I like 10-20% depending on the tobacco)

Thank you VERY much for the clarification. This is exactly what I plan to do. The only thing I'm unsure of is:
How do I know when the alcohol is sufficiently evaporated and that I am not evaporating extract? In other words, should I expect that the alcohol burns off and then whatever is left after the main evaporation can be reasonably considered extract? Is there a benchmark test for this? How does one know the difference between the ethanol and the extract that's left? Anybody?

 

[jonnydoe]

I like the hot ethanol extraction because of the freeze filtering. This is a very clever idea from str8 and i am thinking often about it.

What is on the ground of the jars after freezing ? I think it could be glucose from the tobacco. I have read that Glucose is easier to crystallize as fructose. I want to separate the fructose too because i want no sugars in the extract.

Do somebody has an idea how to separate more sugars ?

 

[jonnydoe]

Isopropyl Alcohol,

You should google Isopropyl Alcohol referring healthy. Its better to try the hot or the cold pg extraction if you dont want to spent money for a good ethanol. Sorry, its only my opinion.

 

[jonnydoe]

Place extract into a bowl ( SS) and place/float bowl on top of water in crockpot, try to keep water temp around 160F to evap off 75% or so of PGA, this concentrates the extract.... it will darken and become somewhat thicker... this is what is added to the VG/PG/Nic. Experiment with the % of extract to the base for your flavor preference ( I like 10-20% depending on the tobacco)

Try your oven to evaporate the ethanol. Its easier and you have no problems referring water because your jars must be open.

 

[jonnydoe]

Is there a benchmark test for this? How does one know the difference between the ethanol and the extract that's left? Anybody?

I think that you evaporate ethanol with a little bit extract perhaps. We have no analysis of it. The reason of the evaporating is to concentrate the extract. If we would not concentrate the extract we would have a lot of ethanol in the later made juice and i dont want to vape a juice with 20 percent ethanol.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I like the hot ethanol extraction because of the freeze filtering. This is a very clever idea from str8 and i am thinking often about it.

What is on the ground of the jars after freezing ? I think it could be glucose from the tobacco. I have read that Glucose is easier to crystallize as fructose. I want to separate the fructose too because i want no sugars in the extract.

Do somebody has an idea how to separate more sugars ?

use PGA, sugars dont dissolve easily into PGA.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Try your oven to evaporate the ethanol. Its easier and you have no problems referring water because your jars must be open.

if you choose the oven... make sure it is an electric oven set on warm mode... NO Open flames when evaporating PGA...

 

[Bunnykiller]

Thank you VERY much for the clarification. This is exactly what I plan to do. The only thing I'm unsure of is:
How do I know when the alcohol is sufficiently evaporated and that I am not evaporating extract? In other words, should I expect that the alcohol burns off and then whatever is left after the main evaporation can be reasonably considered extract? Is there a benchmark test for this? How does one know the difference between the ethanol and the extract that's left? Anybody?

Everclear ( PGA) has about 5-9% water in it... when reducing an alcohol based mixture with a tad bit of water in it, the alcohol will evap off first ( 170F) leaving the 5-9% water content ( basically means you will loose 90% volume of original volume). I prefer to stop the evap process at about 60% volume loss... and yes there is some alcohol still left in the extract base. but by the time you add that to a mix of VG/PG/Nic the alcohol volume drops to about 5% per volume mixed and that pretty much evaps off as you vape it... very little ever gets into your system to cause any issues...

 

[aceswired]

You should google Isopropyl Alcohol referring healthy. Its better to try the hot or the cold pg extraction if you dont want to spent money for a good ethanol. Sorry, its only my opinion.

I agree.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[Boxster]

Thank you VERY much for the clarification. This is exactly what I plan to do. The only thing I'm unsure of is:
How do I know when the alcohol is sufficiently evaporated and that I am not evaporating extract? In other words, should I expect that the alcohol burns off and then whatever is left after the main evaporation can be reasonably considered extract? Is there a benchmark test for this? How does one know the difference between the ethanol and the extract that's left? Anybody?

My process is a bit different but I will first answer your main question.
I go by smell. Once I can no longer detect the smell of alcohol I'm good.
A bit of alcohol in your juice won't hurt, in fact it's a DIY trick to give a juice
more throat hit. To much alcohol can make a juice harsh and color the flavor.

I mostly do a room temperature (RT) extraction/ freeze filter/ RT reduction.
I have so many extracts at this point I'm in no hurry. Occasionally when I start
an extract I will put it in a crock-pot @ ~140 degrees for a couple of hours to kick
start the process, but for the most part I just let time do the work.

After I have filtered the tobacco from the extract I leave it in the freezer for three
days. I have found that less time is not long enough for all of the waxes/pulp
to fall out of the extract. I freeze filter at 2um in the freezer.

For reduction I just replace the lid on the mason jar with a disk of coffee filter.
RT reduction can take a couple of weeks depending on the amount/temperature/humidity etc. This can give time for oils to coagulate and stick to the bottom of the jar. This won't happen with a heat reduction. At this point I pour the extract
into a beaker leaving most of the oil in the jar, mix with PG and do a final 2um
filter, bottle, label and done.

It's a long process but it works with my schedule and the results are worth it.