Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Boxster]

I usually get a "ring" when reducing, figure it's a combination of particulates, flavor and gunk. Some tobaccos leave a well defined ring while others are virtually ring-less. Never had (or at least noticed), sugars separating during the reduction, but certainly wouldn't mind if they did. I'm pretty sure the casings used on the aromatics I'm extracting are loaded with it.

I have been reducing at room temperature by replacing the mason jar lid with a disc of 5um felt. With the extended reduction time I am getting globules (oil?) congealing and sinking to the bottom of the jar. I am also getting an oily substance adhering to the sides of the jar. When I can no longer smell alcohol, I slowly transfer the extract to a beaker using a spatula to keep (most of) the oil in the extraction jar.

At this point, I add enough PG to result in a final volume that is equal to the volume that I would have ended up with doing a PG extraction. I am doing this for a few reasons. For one it enables me to do an apples-to-apples comparison to my PG extractions (gunk factor, flavor, extract %'s, etc.). I think PG will act as a preservative and keep longer. I think it also reduces steeping (aging) time of final mix. The last reason (which may be overkill) is I am doing a final filtration after adding PG, and I would rather lose a few ml of diluted extract rather than concentrated extract.

 

[Exchaner]

I have been reducing at room temperature by replacing the mason jar lid with a disc of 5um felt. With the extended reduction time I am getting globules (oil?) congealing and sinking to the bottom of the jar. I am also getting an oily substance adhering to the sides of the jar. When I can no longer smell alcohol, I slowly transfer the extract to a beaker using a spatula to keep (most of) the oil in the extraction jar.

Just curious how many ml's is your mason jar. I personally like to use a small container narrower on the bottom to help concentrate the residue on the bottom.

 

[jonnydoe]

I am thinking about to take my ethanol tobacco jars out of the freezer and first letting them steep before freezing again and heating. Waiting kills me...

 

[Boxster]

Just curious how many ml's is your mason jar. I personally like to use a small container narrower on the bottom to help concentrate the residue on the bottom.

I start with the same 8oz mason jar that I used for the extraction. Once the extract has reduced to less than 4oz I transfer to a 4oz jar.I found that having less head space in the jar speeds up the reduction.I continue the reduction until I have about 3/8 to 1/4 inch of liquid left or until I can no longer smell alcohol.
What kind of jar are you using that tapers at the bottom? My 4oz jars taper slightly but not enough concentrate the residue.

 

[Exchaner]

I am not using a jar, just a brandy glass - the kind you can swirl your drink inside. It holds approximately 2.5 oz - too small for your purpose, but you can probably go with a regular wine glass for larger amounts.

 

[aceswired]

Oh no, what have i done. Hope i can reduce the 120ml ethanol/pg mixture to perhaps 30ml. I am so stupid, damnd. I have to learn better english. Thanks a lot. Next time i will do it right. Ohoh....

It will still reduce. Just slowly. Take a coffee filter or a paper towel. Place it tightly over the jar. Let it sit for a week. Should reduce slowly.

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[misterD]

I only finished one of my extractions and did the reduction on my ultrasonic starting of with some warm water. it was quite quick maybe 2 30 minutes cycle

 

[jonnydoe]

I only finished one of my extractions and did the reduction on my ultrasonic starting of with some warm water. it was quite quick maybe 2 30 minutes cycle

2 30 =60 min only for reducing. It seems to be too fast. What temperature ? I am reducing usually 70-80ml to 15-20ml and it takes a few hours in the oven in my 250ml jars at 60°Celsius. The reducing after mixing with PG takes longer. 4 from 11 extracts are ready now and i have mixed them with PG, VG and nicotine with 10, 15 and 25% extract. I will wait a week to try them the first time. It takes a lot of time. Next i want to steep the tobacco ethanol mixture for a week before the extraction like Str8 have done it.

I am searching good cigars and fire cured tobaccos now.

 

[Str8vision]

I always filter extract prior to reducing it to minimize loss. I much prefer filtering ethanol rather than PG, it's 100 times faster when gravity filtering. For reducing extract I use a Pyrex baking dish that's wide and shallow allowing maximum surface exposure to expedite evaporation.

I currently heat the extract to 140F in an electric convection oven, takes about 45 minutes on average to achieve a 75% reduction. Hot dry air circulating over the shallow, wide dish provides quick results.

When I tried reducing extract @ 140F in an old electric toaster oven (non-convection), using a canning jar, a 75% reduction would take 6-8 hours. Using the Pyrex baking dish instead of a canning jar cut the time in half but it still took several hours to achieve. Wish I could rig up air circulation inside this small oven.....

I've also just set the wide, shallow Pyrex baking dish in front of a fan, a 75% reduction took 6-8 hours @ room temperature.

Reducing extract at room temperature in a canning jar covered by a coffee filter took several days (3 - 4), to achieve a 75% reduction. I've not tried unassisted "open air" evaporation using the Pyrex dish but I'm sure it would it would be much quicker.

 

[Str8vision]

2 30 =60 min only for reducing. It seems to be too fast.

I never really considered if the speed of a reduction could have an effect on flavor. I suppose it could. The things that have concerned me were heat and oxidation. Excess heat can certainly harm/modify flavor. Oxidation is detrimental to long term storage viability, not a concern for most people but an area of great interest for me. I'm already older than dirt and don't see myself extracting tobacco in my eighties, would rather have an ample stock of well aged extracts at my disposal. Liquid nic isn't the only thing being stored at -10F, another grand experiment!

 

[Str8vision]

I've sampled the control from my double extraction experiment and it's certainly twice as strong in flavor strength. This may seem like a success but I had to mix it at half the normal ratio to achieve optimum flavor so I actually gained nothing in the flavor department but a more condensed extract. Tasted exactly the same. Double extraction did reduce the amount of ethanol required to extract 1 ounce of tobacco by 30 - 40% which could be important to those with limited access to inexpensive 95% ethanol (190 proof PGA). For those folks I might even suggest a triple extraction using the same solvent. At that concentration of flavor, reducing the extract wouldn't be needed. I currently have easy access to inexpensive ethanol so the cost savings ($0.75 in my case), isn't worth the extra trouble.

While double extraction yielded no additional flavor advantages when extracting with ethanol, it might for those using PG as the extraction solvent. Since PG can't be reduced or freeze filtered having a double (or triple), strength extract would allow the use of much smaller mix ratios to achieve the same flavor strength. Less extract in a mix should equate to increased coil/wick performance, (less gunk)..... Just a thought.

I've also been experimenting with soaking the tobacco for three days (72 hours), at room temperature while under a moderate vacuum prior to performing the heated extraction. The only benefit vacuum provides is in quickly saturating the tobacco with solvent, pulling the solvent into the tobacco. Ethanol can do this fairly quickly without vacuum so I'm not really impressed, not worth the trouble IMO. Pre-soaking the tobacco at room temperature for 72 hours I feel is beneficial in preparing the tobacco for the hot extraction. I'll continue doing so but as with all things NET, YMMV.

 

[Exchaner]

I've also been experimenting with soaking the tobacco for three days (72 hours), Pre-soaking the tobacco at room temperature for 72 hours I feel is beneficial in preparing the tobacco for the hot extraction. I'll continue doing so but as with all things NET, YMMV.

That is just what I have done, and waiting for results.

 

[jonnydoe]

Pyrex baking dish

Cool, but it seems to be very large. Its good for one reducing but i have almost 4 jars in the oven. It could be a little bit difficult. The ethanol reducing takes perhaps 2 hours to 20-25%. The PG / ethanol reducing takes longer.

Perhaps i will try one extract without PG with your new 3 days steeping at room temperature method. I really dont know, if i can smell the ethanol in the later juice and if i cant smell it, why mixing and reducing with PG ?

 

[Exchaner]

if i cant smell it, why mixing and reducing with PG ?

I mix my final extract with an equal amount of pg just to get better distribution of particles. They otherwise may settle down in pga alone.

 

[Str8vision]

.............
I really dont know, if i can smell the ethanol in the later juice and if i cant smell it, why mixing and reducing with PG ?

That's why I don't transfer the flavor over to PG, once reduced and mixed with nic, PG and VG I personally can't taste or smell the 3 - 5% ethanol that's in it. Could just be that my smeller and taster are out of whack/worn out after four and a half decades of smoking......

 

[jonnydoe]

I am smoking for 30 years now and perhaps i dont smell it too ? 2 packages a day and since i began vaping nets 3 months ago i only smoke 5 or 6 packages a week. I hope to find or make a perfect net to quit smoking. The tobacco flavours from nets are better than smoking tobacco flavours but i am still missing the burning smokiness of cigarettes in the juices. Cigarettes have too less tobacco flavours, but all the smokiness. Therefore i am searching now for fire cured tobaccos. Perhaps i will find a tobacco which is more similar to smoking. A juice with the tobacco flavours of a good net AND the burning taste of cigarettes would be perfect.

I have now 8 extracts and 3 in the freezer. I have bought today online 3 liters of PG VG base, its empty. Next time i will make one extract without PG for trying. The extractions takes a lot of time but its very funny and i hope that they will be better than the good nets from net.com. Ohoh ?

What do you think referring water in the base ? I have bought bases with 55 PG, 35 VG and 10 percent water.

 

[Str8vision]

You will never find a NET that replicates the smoke of a burning cigarette, only the flavor of the tobacco. This is what people usually miss about smoking, not the nicotine or flavor it's the tar and resin carried by the smoke. When I discovered vaping and NET, I was a pipe smoker which is different than cigarettes.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I tried a partially smoked cigar extract.... very nasty, like licking an ashtray... defiately dont advise extracting smoked cigars

the "smokey flavor" isnt what one would expect... very bitter, musty, almost rancid...

 

[aceswired]

Anyone who has ever smelled a "dead cigar" knows ... steer clear!

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[jonnydoe]

I tried a partially smoked cigar extract.... very nasty, like licking an ashtray... defiately dont advise extracting smoked cigars

the "smokey flavor" isnt what one would expect... very bitter, musty, almost rancid...

The bitterness is one of the thinks a am missing.