Tuesday May 10th community events
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Which was the whole purpose for Tobacco Deeming of E-cigs. A Purpose written set of standards and test designed to Protect Current Big Tobacco and keep all other upstarts out of competition.
Ever wonder Who consulted on original Drafting of these regulations?
.......and which part of the Health industry is willing to Give up those Dollars?
It is, and it isn't, surprising. I'm surprised at how in depth they seemed to go, but remember, these are the people who will reject an SE application because your new cigarette paper has 74 rings instead of 72 rings, even if they're the same length(not an actual example). With cigarettes, they control EVERY last detail. It could be argued that vaping products would be more like RYO products, but I believe rolling papers, tubes and filters are also considered tobacco products.i didn't but what was surprising to me is the hardware being classified as a tobacco product also
Has anyone had any comments from their representatives about all this? I.E. how this wiping out of the US vaping industry is going to affect their State Unemployment numbers, and how it pulls the rug from their own State level desire to tax vaping?
Or are they assuming it's all OK, because everyone will go back to smoking, and who cares about unemployment?
Or are they assuming it's all OK, because everyone will go back to smoking, and who cares about unemployment?
When I brought this up before, and suggested fighting the deeming itself(and started a petition against it), I was told that the deeming was inevitable, that it would take congress to change the change the classification and there would be no support. It was said that it would be better to work within the tobacco control framework and try to mitigate the damage. Well, here we are.Which was the whole purpose for Tobacco Deeming of E-cigs. A Purpose written set of standards and test designed to Protect Current Big Tobacco and keep all other upstarts out of competition.
Ever wonder Who consulted on original Drafting of these regulations?
.......and which part of the Health industry is willing to Give up those Dollars?
Understand me, I am not criticizing the advocacy groups, they did what they thought was best, and they have worked incredibly hard for us. I just think it might be time to start nudging congress for that long shot re-classification, it may take decades of protest, but I'm not sure there IS another way. It's really not a science thing, it's a legal thing. FDA says it's tobacco, this is how tobacco is regulated, congress decided how tobacco would be regulated.
Actually, it gives the states the leverage to now tax vaping since ecigs have been officially deemed a tobacco product. Since the FDA has deemed them in the same category as cigarettes, I'm fairly sure they will get taxed like cigs.
Damn, I shouldn't say that too loudly. The states may hear
Actually, it gives the states the leverage to now tax vaping since ecigs have been officially deemed a tobacco product. Since the FDA has deemed them in the same category as cigarettes, I'm fairly sure they will get taxed like cigs.
Damn, I shouldn't say that too loudly. The states may hear
Yes, but do they realize this source will be extinct in 2 years and 85 days? Most State legislatures are done for this year. By May 2017, (1 year's time) States will tax the heck out of vaping with a commence date of …say….June 2017. (1 year, 1 month) The following May 2018, (2 years, 1 month) it's going to be a dead issue.
Agreed. That's why I was asking - because these Reps while dumb sure are cunning when it comes to lining their own pockets. So I'd assume we have to be the ones to tell them. (God! Yes, tax us! Please tax us!) Ugh.
doubtful - amazing as it is 2/3 of the vaping market comes from gas station/ convenience store sales through cigalikes. big tobacco will be the winner here to guarantee states can pay off the bonds they took out in anticipation of the tobacco settlement payments.
Not dumb.
They now own their competition.
They can do as they please.
The only option they dont own is quitting cold turkey.
Considering all their customers are addicts, they really have the entire landscape sewn up.
Government by Definition is not Science and Science should be a Separate entity tasked with bringing to Government Documented concerns leading to Regulation.
I Agree with you, the choice was not a good one, Wait and see rarely is.
Our Governing Body is working toward taking over every aspect and every decision in our lives. This is not the purpose of Governing(in the United States) and is Not in the best interest of the people.
Much of what is being done in the name of Public health and Public safety is in fact a removal of Freedom of Choice.
People continue to be injured and sickened at an alarming rate. The average child is less physically active than ever before in the history of this country - a Health negative.
Modern medicines and Prepared Food requirements seem to be weakening our immune systems at a Genetic level Breeding a more susceptible society relying on even more Drugs to control conditions.
There is no Regulation or Government intervention that can make Americans any Stronger or Healthier than our own common Sense.
The Brain is an App.......................Use it people..........and update often
Well stated and well explained. Thank you for the efforts of starting the petition!
In business, it is far better to be PRO-ACTIVE than to be Re-active.I/we are "new" to vaping (90 days +/-) and 100% tobacco free for as long.
I was surprised (as soon as I was aware of the situation) that "The Industry" wasn't making more noise DURING the formulation process, purely from a capitalistic stand point, if nothing else. And where was the advertising/celebrity endorsements for product or the benefits of said product? I've heard the argument that "Vaping products can't be advertised because they're like tobacco products." I'm calling B.S. on that! "Blu" has been advertising for YEARS. (It's a crap product (IMHO) but still...)Dissatisfied with "commercial products" (Blu's) we had to do our own research on the internet to find modern product and local suppliers. My point is that a multi-billion dollar industry that provides the benefits that vaping does, SHOULD NOT be as inaccessible as it is. Vaping has been a back room, sub-culture, "underground" activity and industry all it's life and as such is being treated just that way. When the industry and community could and should have been making A LOT of NOISE, they kept quiet, trying to "fly below the radar", I suppose. (Although I have NO IDEA why.) As Lessifer said, "Well, here we are!" Now "we're" completely muzzled and it will literally take an act of congress to pull it off.
Please pardon my rant. I'm just feeling abandoned by BOTH my government that told us for decades that tobacco is bad and "They were looking out for our health and well being" AND the industry that provided the technological advances that made it possible for us to become tobacco free.
Since "we" ARE at this point, one of the points in the deeming is that the product has to be shown to be "significantly similar" to those products on the market (available) in 2007.
In a 2013 interview with Herbert A. Gilbert (as many of you already know, the Original Inventor of the "Smokeless - Non Tobacco Cigarette" - 1963!!!) he was asked, "How does your design differ from the current electronic cigarette?" His reply was, "There is no electronic cigarette today, that I have seen, that does not follow the basic road map set forth in my original patent. If you remove any part shown in my original patent from their electric cigarette it will not function. It may be positioned differently, sized differently, controlled differently…but…it still follows the road map set forth in my patent drawings."
My point is fairly obvious. There are differences in "design" and circuit boards etc. but even today, ALL vaping devices follow the same basic principal & "road map", as Mr. Gilbert called it. Doesn't this qualify even the most modern - high tech devices "substantially similar" to products available as far back as 1963 (!) ??? (actual patent publication date Aug. 17 1965 - Filing date April 17 1963)
There may be some hope in arguing from this standpoint. That's one of my hopes anyway. It would take a high powered, well spoken attorney to make this argument though.
As Craig Ferguson said on the latest episode of "Join Or Die", "Government shouldn't tell me how to feel, what to do or how to think. That's not their job. Their job is to pay the bills and keep the country running smoothly and THAT'S ALL." It would also be interesting to hear our Presidential candidates position on "The Deeming".
My
Von Vape 
Yes--Congress (and only Congress can now) has to change the grandfather date. We all knew it from day one. I think it's too late to undo the deeming power of the FDA, but it's not too late to move the grandfather date.
Please write to your representatives and ask them to vote for the Cole-Bishop Amendment to the Agricultural Appropriations Bill.
Just my opinion, but I don't think that's how Substantial Equivalence works. It's Equivalence, not Similar. With an SE application, you're basically proving that your new "product" is exactly the same as your old product.Well stated and well explained. Thank you for the efforts of starting the petition!
I/we are "new" to vaping (90 days +/-) and 100% tobacco free for as long.
Dissatisfied with "commercial products" (Blu's) we had to do our own research on the internet to find modern product and local suppliers. My point is that a multi-billion dollar industry that provides the benefits that vaping does, SHOULD NOT be as inaccessible as it is. Vaping has been a back room, sub-culture, "underground" activity and industry all it's life and as such is being treated just that way. When the industry and community could and should have been making A LOT of NOISE, they kept quiet, trying to "fly below the radar", I suppose. (Although I have NO IDEA why.) As Lessifer said, "Well, here we are!" Now "we're" completely muzzled and it will literally take an act of congress to pull it off.
Please pardon my rant. I'm just feeling abandoned by BOTH my government that told us for decades that tobacco is bad and "They were looking out for our health and well being" AND the industry that provided the technological advances that made it possible for us to become tobacco free.
Since "we" ARE at this point, one of the points in the deeming is that the product has to be shown to be "significantly similar" to those products on the market (available) in 2007.
In a 2013 interview with Herbert A. Gilbert (as many of you already know, the Original Inventor of the "Smokeless - Non Tobacco Cigarette" - 1963!!!) he was asked, "How does your design differ from the current electronic cigarette?" His reply was, "There is no electronic cigarette today, that I have seen, that does not follow the basic road map set forth in my original patent. If you remove any part shown in my original patent from their electric cigarette it will not function. It may be positioned differently, sized differently, controlled differently…but…it still follows the road map set forth in my patent drawings."
My point is fairly obvious. There are differences in "design" and circuit boards etc. but even today, ALL vaping devices follow the same basic principal & "road map", as Mr. Gilbert called it. Doesn't this qualify even the most modern - high tech devices "substantially similar" to products available as far back as 1963 (!) ??? (actual patent publication date Aug. 17 1965 - Filing date April 17 1963)
There may be some hope in arguing from this standpoint. That's one of my hopes anyway. It would take a high powered, well spoken attorney to make this argument though.
As Craig Ferguson said on the latest episode of "Join Or Die", "Government shouldn't tell me how to feel, what to do or how to think. That's not their job. Their job is to pay the bills and keep the country running smoothly and THAT'S ALL." It would also be interesting to hear our Presidential candidates position on "The Deeming".
My
Guess who gets to decide if the product raises different questions of public health.
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