vaping in public keep it low to keep our rights

[DC2]

As I've said in other threads though, I do understand why these policies are in place. Take your stadium example. If they allowed vaping anywhere in the stadium, but not smoking, what do you think would happen? There'd be a ton of people stealth smoking.

You can't stealth smoke, because everyone will know you're doing it.

 

[DC2]

very nicely said

Hey there plutonium.


You really need to learn to use the "Reply With Quote" option.
Otherwise nobody knows what you are talking about much of the time.

 

[TrickyRicky71]

I'm not sitting in a crowded movie theatre blasting away, but I'll walk down the aisle of a store and vape. I also smoke in my shop at work as my boss doesn't care, it's a machine shop so there's more vapor coming from our press then my work area, but I generally fall in line of consideration of others, but only in public.

 

[Myk]

You don't stand up and fight by blatantly disregarding the current policies (if that's what you're suggesting).

If I was at one of those establishments you listed, I wouldn't vape while there. I would, however, write a letter (or similar) to the powers that be and try to get the rules changed.

As I've said in other threads though, I do understand why these policies are in place. Take your stadium example. If they allowed vaping anywhere in the stadium, but not smoking, what do you think would happen? There'd be a ton of people stealth smoking. Because the stadium doesn't have the manpower to go investigate every plume of smoke that they see in the stands or respond to every customer complaint about someone doing "something". It would be an enforcement nightmare.

Yes, vaping doesn't have the effects that smoking does (to the person doing it and bystanders), but it's not that simple. It still creates a cloud of vapor/smoke. That's our cross to bear as vapors. When most places place a ban on vaping, I doubt that it rarely has anything to do with the effects of vaping, it's a business decision based on perceptions and enforcement.

Everyone thinks we just need to educate people on the fact that vaping is harmless to others. perhaps they already know this. They just don't want people exhaling cloudes of vapor/smoke in their stadium or place of business or standing out in front of their doors. And I can understand why they wouldn't.

It's not that much different than places that ban alcohol (like colleges facilities, beaches, and parks) or firearms. They understand that it's legal for an adult to drink alcohol (and perhaps carry a gun), but they don't want to have to police everyone to see if they're drunk or not (or of age or with the right permits). Much more cost effective just to ban it altogether, and businesses are all about cost effectiveness.

What would happen is the bar or stadium sells ecigs, makes money, people vape more, more smokers quit smoking and vape instead, some smokers vape where they can't smoke.
The reason this doesn't happen is purely political. Someone with friends doesn't want people to quit smoking by switching to vaping because it still looks like smoking so they pressure their friends to make policy based on their wishes.

The gun issue is a perfect example. Banning lawful gun carriers from carrying isn't about enforcement, it's none of their business, it's not about safety, there's nothing to prove a danger. It's purely political because someone who doesn't like the act pressures someone else into making these stupid rules.

The sooner you realize this the sooner you realize vaping in public is a good thing because it exposes people to it so they aren't as easily swayed by someone with a political agenda.

 

[Uma]

I've smoked for well over 40 years and never once saw anyone smoking in a store. Restaurants, bars, theaters, concerts, games, events, picnics, parties, yes of course, but never in a store. But then, I live in Calif. it surprises me how different the states are/were. I almost moved to Oklahoma when I learned they can smoke and shop. OMG! I would love to do that!!! I need a smoke when I shop, I get so stressed out. But the rules changed right before I packed up. . That was just a few years ago.
When the Calif ANTZ hear people saying they smoke in stores, or, vape in stores, they go berserk. They have no clue you are in Texas or Timbuktu, they picture calif because that's where they are. I would so love to see the folks come out to gather, mingle, play, love, tolerate one another again, and hopefully the vaping will allow that to happen. But until everyone gets off the Big Bully wagon, it's going to remain a Netflix state.

 

[spartanstew]

I think there would be a drastic increase in vaping.

there is no such thing as stealth smoking... the second it is lit everyone within 20 feet knows it by the smell.

I am pretty damn sure no one would think i was smoking if I was vaping near them...

MY mod looks nothing like a cigarette and definitely doesn't smell like one. The act doesn't even look that similar. due in part to how you hold a mod.

The vapor dissipates, the smoke doesn't.
The vapor smells nice, or not at all, the smoke doesn't. (Well sometimes it does, depends on the brand or memory triggers)
The vapor doesn't constantly produce vapor when not vaped, the cigarette does with smoke though.
The vapor can be stealth vaped, the cigarettes can not. (Only kind of)
The vapor is life saving because it keeps us from lighting up a cigarette.
Anybody who can not tell the difference lacks the necessary intelligence to be a voter or councilman.

You can't stealth smoke, because everyone will know you're doing it.

I think that's being shortsighted.

Naturally, if I start smoking, the person next to me will know.

However, if vaping were allowed in a stadium (for example), there'd be hundreds of people vaping and hundreds (or more) people sneaking smokes too. All around the stadium there's be little puffs of smoke/vap. The powers that be would have no idea which of those plumes belonged to a smoker and which belonged to a vapor. A "smart" smoker would just carry an e-cig too. Security comes up, "are you smoking?". "Nope, vaping" and shows them his e-cig. They leave and a few minutes later he lights up another smoke. It would happen. And it would happen with regularity.

To deny that, is not see the big picture.

As I also mentioned in another thread, I'm very involved in Little League Baseball and we've always had a no smoking policy on the grounds. We also have a no vaping policy, even though several of us vape. It's just logical. We don't want the stands full of what may or may not be smoking. We don't want someone standing off by themselves blowing smoke/vapor and have to send someone to investigate on what it is. We don't want parents of kids to potentially get offended by someone vaping next to them or their kids when it's something that only those +18 can do. I'm sure many of you would disagree with that decision, and a few of you would say "screw it, I'm vaping in the stands while I watch my 7 year old regardless of policy". But, at this time, it was the right decision to make and creates the fewest headaches and issues for a bunch of volunteers donating their time.

 

[ClippinWings]

out of site out of mind...........

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[DC2]

However, if vaping were allowed in a stadium (for example), there'd be hundreds of people vaping and hundreds (or more) people sneaking smokes too. All around the stadium there's be little puffs of smoke/vap. The powers that be would have no idea which of those plumes belonged to a smoker and which belonged to a vapor. A "smart" smoker would just carry an e-cig too. Security comes up, "are you smoking?". "Nope, vaping" and shows them his e-cig. They leave and a few minutes later he lights up another smoke. It would happen. And it would happen with regularity.

To deny that, is not see the big picture.

I am very good at seeing the big picture, and I deny that completely.


The people around a smoker will police that smoker themselves.
I absolutely guarantee that.

 

[ClippinWings]

I think that's being shortsighted.

Naturally, if I start smoking, the person next to me will know.

However, if vaping were allowed in a stadium (for example), there'd be hundreds of people vaping and hundreds (or more) people sneaking smokes too. All around the stadium there's be little puffs of smoke/vap. The powers that be would have no idea which of those plumes belonged to a smoker and which belonged to a vapor. A "smart" smoker would just carry an e-cig too. Security comes up, "are you smoking?". "Nope, vaping" and shows them his e-cig. They leave and a few minutes later he lights up another smoke. It would happen. And it would happen with regularity.

To deny that, is not see the big picture.

That's what you're missing....

I've seen it... i've seen 17,164 seat honda center jam packed with fans... I've seen people walking through the halls vaping... I used to vape in my seat...

Then it was outlawed.

not once did I ever see anyone smoke and in talking to security(of which I know several), they didn't either... aside from concerts where it happens regardless of it's legality or what is being smoked.

So, no... you THINK it would happen... but it doesn't... or didn't as the case may be.

 

[ClippinWings]

As I also mentioned in another thread, I'm very involved in Little League Baseball and we've always had a no smoking policy on the grounds. We also have a no vaping policy, even though several of us vape. It's just logical. We don't want the stands full of what may or may not be smoking. We don't want someone standing off by themselves blowing smoke/vapor and have to send someone to investigate on what it is. We don't want parents of kids to potentially get offended by someone vaping next to them or their kids when it's something that only those +18 can do. I'm sure many of you would disagree with that decision, and a few of you would say "screw it, I'm vaping in the stands while I watch my 7 year old regardless of policy". But, at this time, it was the right decision to make and creates the fewest headaches and issues for a bunch of volunteers donating their time.

Glad my son plays hockey.

Then again as a general rule... Hockey parents aren't like parents in other sports, We still believe losers don't get trophies, mercy rules don't help anyone and losing build character, sometimes more than winning... Its a very old school "common sense" kind of atmosphere.

No one would consider smoking in or around the arena, so it's obvious that someone vaping isn't smoking.

And again, the smell and the visual act of smoking is very distinct and obvious. Someone smoking in the arena would get confronted and not so politely asked to leave.

That said, those of us that vape generally do so outside... but that has more to do with it being cold inside than anything else

 

[ClippinWings]

I am very good at seeing the big picture, and I deny that completely.


The people around a smoker will police that smoker themselves.
I absolutely guarantee that.

exactly... the assumption that smokers would smoke because vapers vape is insulting to the intelligence and integrity of the public at large.

Because it requires the assumption that the public is too stupid to be able to smell smoke.

 

[spartanstew]

I am very good at seeing the big picture, and I deny that completely.


The people around a smoker will police that smoker themselves.
I absolutely guarantee that.

1. There might not be anyone around (standing off by themselves, for example)
2. The people around might not care (college students in a section of the stadium)
3. There might be a few people smoking and a few vaping, so the people around might not necessarily know who's doing what.

That's what you're missing....

I've seen it... i've seen 17,164 seat honda center jam packed with fans... I've seen people walking through the halls vaping... I used to vape in my seat...

Then it was outlawed.

not once did I ever see anyone smoke and in talking to security(of which OI know several), they didn't either... aside from concerts where it happens regardless of it's legality or what is being smoked.

So, no... you THINK it would happen... but it doesn't... or didn't as the case may be.

I've seen it too - exactly the opposite. So, I know it would happen. The fact that you've never seen it, doesn't mean it won't happen.

I've never seen a polar bear either, but I don't doubt their existence.

 

[spartanstew]

exactly... the assumption that smokers would smoke because vapers vape is insulting to the intelligence and integrity of the public at large.

Because it requires the assumption that the public is too stupid to be able to smell smoke.

False. I've been at many events where I could smell pot. I knew someone around was smoking pot, but wasn't sure who (because they did it with some stealth). Smoking can be the same way. When I was younger, I would sneak smokes myself at places you weren't supposed to smoke (disneyland, college sporting events, etc.). People could smell it, but weren't sure who was doing it. If a bunch of people around me would have been vaping, it would have been even easier. Not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

You can't even admit that it's possible. In a stadium full of 50,000 people, you really don't think a smoker in a group of vapors might light up?? Because it would be harder for people in the next section to know who's doing it? That's unbelievable.

 

[spartanstew]

No one would consider smoking in or around the arena, so it's obvious that someone vaping isn't smoking.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but hockey is mostly indoors, while baseball is outdoors. That might be a factor, eh?

You don't think a single hockey person would even consider smoking at an outdoor hockey rink or game? Not a single one? Anywhere? Really?

 

[Jack Pappas]

If everybody hides their vaping and does not talk about it. Then you have no one to blame but yourselves when your local legislators listen to those who DO talk about it and move to restrict it because ALL THEY HEARD WAS BAD THINGS.

I'm not going to vape in a restaurant because the truth is that the smell is not always a good smell and it CAN be offensive.
But I vape in public places all the time and literally EVERY PERSON I have ever spoken to about it found it interesting, and no longer offensive, once they knew what it really was and how safe it was.

EDUCATE. If you want to keep this legal.

 

[spartanstew]

My other sons Dojo doesn't allow food or drink in it. How dare they!! There's no second had side effects to Doritos and Diet Coke. They have it in for people that snack and drink soda. I will fight them. I will take my grape nehi in there and drink with abandon. I will show them. I will educate them on the fact that me eating doritos doesn't effect others near me. They must not realize this. I have my rights.

Now, I'll leave you all to your "kill em all, let god sort em out" mentality, and the believe that everything is a conspiracy against vapors. Best of Luck to you in your the sun revolves around me world.

 

[spartanstew]

If everybody hides their vaping and does not talk about it. Then you have no one to blame but yourselves when your local legislators listen to those who DO talk about it and move to restrict it because ALL THEY HEARD WAS BAD THINGS.

I don't believe anyone in this thread has said not to talk about it other than you.

 

[DC2]

False. I've been at many events where I could smell pot. I knew someone around was smoking pot, but wasn't sure who (because they did it with some stealth). Smoking can be the same way.

If they can do it with herbal substances, why aren't they doing it with cigarettes?

Because when surrounded by people in normal life situations they can't get away with it.
Just like they couldn't get away with smoking herbal substances in those situations either.

 

[DC2]

1. There might not be anyone around (standing off by themselves, for example)

If they are off by themselves then it doesn't matter if they are smoking or vaping.

2. The people around might not care (college students in a section of the stadium)

There is no way there would be an entire section of students that wouldn't care.
There wouldn't even be an entire row of students that wouldn't care.

In fact, the odds are that in just the eight seats immediately surrounding you someone would care.

3. There might be a few people smoking and a few vaping, so the people around might not necessarily know who's doing what.

At this point things become very situation dependent...

Taking your stadium example, I still disagree completely that a smoker could get away with it.
There are people all around that will know who is smoking.

Your Disneyland example is better because it is a large place and the people can be quite dispersed in some areas.
I'm going to post the rest of this reply now and give this example some more thought.

 

[rico942]

Its interesting how conditions can change in such a short distance. I visit Tijuana from San Diego about twice a month, to visit retired friends who live there, see my dentist and doctor, and enjoy a great dinner for under $10 ...

Just a few yards from the US across the border, you can smoke virtually anywhere. There was a national smoking ban in Mexico a few years ago. It lasted exactly 17 days in Tijuana, from the enactment of the law until the ashtrays came back in bars and restaurants. That law is now thoroughly unenforced and ignored ...

But walk down the street with an open beer and you will be scooped up by one of the dozen or so types of policia, and tossed in the back of a pickup truck to be bounced around for the next couple of hours. Urinating in public is also treated as a capitol offense. Crazy stuff ...

I stealth vape in the US because it has become acceptable and politically correct to verbally assualt smokers, and the people who do so are just too plain dumb to ever understand the difference. My Dad called them the "willfully ignorant" of the world, bound and determined to ignore the facts and embrace fallacy ...

In Mexico, the vapor attracts no attention whatsoever. The worst problem I have had with vaping in Mexico is waiters courteously trying to light my cigalike ...