Do you walk all day inhaling rat poison, iso alcohol or insecticides? Common you know that it isn't the same.
Why certain regulations and bans make perfect sense
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Do you walk all day inhaling rat poison, iso alcohol or insecticides? Common you know that it isn't the same.
This.
The tobacco Directive that is being discussed in the EU initially stated: no refillable atomizers, only sealed, child-proof atomizers containing no more than 20 mg/ml nicotine, and no more than 10 mg nicotine in a single atomizer (that would be 0.5 ml of a 20 mg/ml e-juice)... 'because of the children'...
So, why not ban cleaning products also, that are sold in 5 liter bottles, with no child-proof caps?
Isn't that much more dangerous to children than a single 15 ml juice bottle?
Are we going to start buying bleach in 0.5 ml bottles also ??
Above all, what happened to the concept of parents being responsible for taking care of their own children?
nawwwww... no time or nerves for any "BAN anything" proponents....
I am in the same boat as jpargana at the moment. And we have more .. pressing.. matters to attend to.
Anyone in the States who wants to advocate bans on e-cigs .. regulations.. whatever you call them.. may well get their wish pretty soon.
If Europe falls, the US will be next.
The FDA is watching closely.
So are its buddies at Big Tobacco and Big Pharma.
Mark my words.
.. and now I will leave you to your ban advocacy... bye.....
I am in the same boat as jpargana at the moment. And we have more .. pressing.. matters to attend to.
Anyone in the States who wants to advocate bans on e-cigs .. regulations.. whatever you call them.. may well get their wish pretty soon.
If Europe falls, the US will be next.
The FDA is watching closely.
So are its buddies at Big Tobacco and Big Pharma.
Mark my words.
.. and now I will leave you to your ban advocacy... bye.....
If you seriously thought that vaping would be permitted in public places while smoking is being banned, you are living in a dream world. While I do not agree with with overall bans, I firmly believe the proprietor of the business should be allowed to set their rules in regards to vaping...and smoking. (whether the business bans it, restricts it or allows it)
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. It seems the food of choice on ECF these days is vinegar.
Sorry, but I believe you are being unfair... nobody said they wanted unlimited freedom... but on the other hand, we surelly do not want unlimited prohibition !! Particularly when that prohibition does not arise from legitimate and proper health concerns, but rather from ideology and economic concerns... revenue above the well-being of real people out there!
If the e-cig ended up banned in Europe, I would not buy my liquid in the black market. Because, of course, then there would be no regulations at all about safety and quality. I would have to start buying the ingredients at pharmacies and such, and start DIY.
I also agree that e-cig, as well as tobacco, should not be sold to minors. See? No 'unlimited freedom' there... BUT, if there are laws already to regulate selling tobacco to minors, and laws to ensure the safety and quality of consumer products, I believe that is enough... there's no health-related need to over-regulate the e-cig! In the EU, it is the second time in just a month and an half that the lobbies have tried a de-facto ban... first, they tried the 'medicalization' route, which failed. Now, they're trying to lump the e-cig with tobacco. As if the two products were equally hazardous.
No, I do not think so. Trouble is, we are discerning adults, who do not want our right to vape be taken away because of supposed concerns about 'child safety'... no refillable atomizers, only sealed, child-proof atomizers containing no more than 10 mg nicotine (that would be 0.5 ml of 20 mg/ml juice, which would also be the maximum concentration allowed) is just ridiculous, when you think that you can buy a bottle containing 5 liters of bleach in the supermarket... with no 'child-proof' cover!
Parents should be responsible for taking care of their children, and storing cleaning products and e-juice out of their reach - as clearly stated on both product's label. What I cannot stand is lobbies using the "parent's alleged irresponsability to take care of their children" excuse to convince governments to treat me as if I was a child myself!
I'm amazed to the point of skepticism that there hasn't been any reports of a bad product causing some sort of dust up. From the food industry to the makers of baby cribs there's been some product error or negligence at one point or another. I just find it odd that I haven't come across anything of the sort in this industry. Guess it doesn't happen...
In a perfect world, you know what would stop the insanity....................
If everyone just stopped for one day. No work buying
doing not a darn thing.
The system doesn't exist if we don't participate.
If everyone just stopped for one day. No work buying
doing not a darn thing.
The system doesn't exist if we don't participate.
Jman types into google search "Caffeine AND pesticide" and of the many hits finds this one
Slugging It Out With Caffeine | ScienceNews
Quote from the article
Bold emphasis by Jman
The main debate here seems to be about a ban for children. There is more than one way to approach this so I am going to bring this up again.
Would a ban on sales to minors include a ban on them vaping?
What if their parents bought it for them?
How about a ban on advertizing to minors?
What age should the ban start at 21, 18, 16?
Any other ideas?
Would a ban on sales to minors include a ban on them vaping?
What if their parents bought it for them?
How about a ban on advertizing to minors?
What age should the ban start at 21, 18, 16?
Any other ideas?
Then I am currently living in a dream world. Which, philosophically speaking, I don't dispute, but I'm thinking you weren't making a philosophical assertion and instead thinking there aren't places that will permit open vaping. Currently, there are. Hence the Golden Era that I'll reference in my posts from time to time.
Yet, if the fear mongers amongst us get their way, vaping and smoking will always be linked and both will be kept in the column of always bad, and very likely dangerous to children and those who inhale the secondhand stuff.
There was once, long before I ever heard of ecigs. Type in Box Elder in the search. The community did an awesome job of catching that problem and warning vapers. Also, not long ago, there was a yellow box warning at the top of ECF regarding a faulty PV(?). I think either Thrasher or Baditude had a hand in that discovery. That one resulted in a recall of the faulty product and it was very quick between the time of discovery to the recall. I think less than a week.
The Vaping community does an excellent job of watching out for each other. And this is without gov interference. How many gov recalls have happened years and years after the first incident of an occurrence? Too many to count.
There have been instances but they get taken care of in a very short time.
If a parent wants to buy them for their kids, it's up to the parents. That's how I feel. It just goes along with Parental Responsibility. Who are we to say? I'm all about parents being parents. Not the government being parents.
Advertising....with TV's you can block channels you don't want your kids to see. But then it goes back to parents doing what they feel is best.
Agreed. Many of us see other vapers who tell us in big bold letters "vape only with smokers" when we advocate vaping openly but respectfully, as doing exactly what you don't want to "encounter......within the vaping community".
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I actually agree with the ban in places where smoking is not allowed, I didn't smoke in the grocery store, movie theater, etc. why should I vape there. I visited a vape shop where people were blowing clouds and I was not comfortable in there, for me it has nothing to do with whether the vapor is harmful to others or not it bothered my eyes. I also agree with regulation of both the quality of the liquid and the hardware, it should meet some standards of safety.
I actually think cigarettes should be banned completely since they kill so many people, but that's just me. I don't think it is a good idea to be vaping around children because they do what they see adults doing and I don't think vaping is something they need to be doing, I see vaping as a way to stop smoking, even though I enjoy it very much and hope I don't ever have to quit.
Not everyone enjoys or can even tolerate clouds of vapor that does have an odor to many if not most people. I can't smell what I am vaping but others can and forcing others to smell what I am vaping is inconsiderate, whether it is harmful or not.
I also think there should be some regulation of perfume and cologne in public places, too many people must bathe in the stuff and it is more offensive to me that cigarette smoke, which I find very offensive.
I actually think cigarettes should be banned completely since they kill so many people, but that's just me. I don't think it is a good idea to be vaping around children because they do what they see adults doing and I don't think vaping is something they need to be doing, I see vaping as a way to stop smoking, even though I enjoy it very much and hope I don't ever have to quit.
Not everyone enjoys or can even tolerate clouds of vapor that does have an odor to many if not most people. I can't smell what I am vaping but others can and forcing others to smell what I am vaping is inconsiderate, whether it is harmful or not.
I also think there should be some regulation of perfume and cologne in public places, too many people must bathe in the stuff and it is more offensive to me that cigarette smoke, which I find very offensive.
Unlike.
My cigalike doesn't do clouds of vapor.
Been around enough non-vapers in 2 years of vaping to realize my stuff don't stink / smell. Or stinks in same way person who had food for lunch now has something on their breath that smells. I'm thinking I could make bold claim that says when they enter room, I can smell exactly what they had for lunch, just from their exhaling.
Hmmm, maybe we need to ban public exhaling? Yeah, that's the ticket.
I had a discussion with a long time (4 years) kisok seller on this topic. He doesn't sell to minors and cards everyone who looks younger than 30. But, he has had several parents come to him and want to buy a kit for their 16 & 17 year old children who smoke. The parents were desperate to help their children break free from smoking, based on what they told the kiosk operator.
Should the kiosk seller be prosecuted for selling to the parents when he knows the reason they are buying the kit?
Should the parents be prosecuted for trying to help their children break free from smoking by giving them a vaping kit?
Should the children be prosecuted for using a vaping kit in their efforts to stop smoking?
I think there is a significant amount of "grey" in this issue.
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I'm pretty sure we disagree, just not sure how much yet.DC2, I didn't name them specifically but I tend to lean towards "community" being comprised of both the people in the community and those that govern said community. But you're right, no disagreement there.
Unless you were being sarcastic, then I do disagree
I despise the Nanny State, and I'm not sure I'm all that fond of the whole "it takes a village" idea.
But I guess you could consider things like a police force to be "community" or maybe teachers who report suspected child abuse.
There is a line somewhere in there, and I doubt we would draw it in the same place.
Not all vapers are the same. Any public vaping ban will have to be unilateral - they aren't going to try and enforce a ban against cloud chasers, but let the guy with a cigalike do as he pleases. And this is a big issue for vapers who are respectful of others and vape discreetly, to the point of not even being noticed. Take that same juice that doesn't smell in your cigalike and now put it in a subohm dripper with a 30A MNKE battery MOD being vaped at 35 watts. It's going to have a smell simply because there is more of it, lots more most likely. But you'll be lumped in with the folks who do become fog machines in public, it's not something you can help except to not use that type of setup in public, yet people do it.
And if parents want to purchase a kit for their minor - a minor who smokes or does not smoke - that is their choice. They should limit the sale, but not the use of said devices, kind of like video games. Kids can't buy 17+ games, but they can play them in their own homes if a parent buys it for them.
Truthfully, I've kind of lost track of what we're even debating at this point.
Caffeine is produced in plants for the same reason nicotine is produced in plants, to act as a natural insecticide.
I don't know if I can produce any documented use of caffeine as an pesticide, but I can produce this...
CAFFEINE IS NATURAL INSECTICIDE, SCIENTIST SAYS - NYTimes.com
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