You can want to give up the bad in something without wanting to give the something up. Like say chocolate cake lots of people want to give up the calories but not as many want to give up the taste to lose the calories.
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You can want to give up the bad in something without wanting to give the something up. Like say chocolate cake lots of people want to give up the calories but not as many want to give up the taste to lose the calories.
If you are social smoker or party smoker who don't smoke much and only in few days a week, smoking isn't going to kill you. That kind of smokers enjoy smoking the same way they enjoy drinking alcohol. It's not the nicotine addiction. I mean even if you smoke every day, but only few cigs per day, most likely it's not going to affect your health. You get more .... into your lungs by living in the big city.
I started 'e-smoking' as an alternative way to continue "smoking" with 'benefits', so to speak; smoking was bad in the first place and it was becoming very 'politically incorrect'; you cannot do it anywhere nowadays, etc. I thought e-cigs could translate into a smarter choice. They did; and 'with brass knobs on', heee !
As for my quitting process, it wasnt that natural and easy, but I think that e-cigs can be very effective and a good quitting aid. Nowadays I'm enjoying them better...
When it comes to the fact that "smokers are in denial", I think that this is a very simplistic statement typical of "ignorant cows"... Mind you, I do not mean to offend anyone here... I DONT think you are ignorant in any way... But the statement is biased 'per se'...
Of course that the addiction does go a long way; conditioning possibly your whole view on the matter; cigarettes are 'designed' to be effective drugs, etc. And they COULD very well kill you. Having said that I would have chosen to go on smoking, and NOT because I was in denial or biased some how but simply because it was a personal choice which implied some sort of philosophy I think goes deeper than that of 'living healthy as a nazi-standard'... Many smart people have made valid points about 'smoking being a pleasure and worthy...' But HEY! What would they know? They were in denial... There are even many books in some social studies in connection with this issue. But some people will always try to force their 'simplistic' views on others by means of violent arguments as an attempt to make them look 'stupid', but they may be the ones ending up sounding as "nazis"... This is very common in this FORUM with many 'touchy topics'...
Once for instance, a guy started a thread for tips on 'dripping and driving'; his aim being that of dealing with or finding a 'safe' way to do it, if any; at traffic lights, etc. Guess what? He was treated like a Convicted Criminal... They even told him something very similar to some arguments here like "Who would like to kill a pedestrian? No one. So... How come we could even consider this?" The thread had to be closed.
I think it is enrooted deeply into our nature to 'feel' our point of view is 'the correct' and ONLY ONE being objective. So we might even feel 'violated' by having to consider others' opinions. Then again, this practice is also expected when we are part of a 'minority'... So, maybe we should know better and respect a bit more... This way WE will be more respected in return... And our arguments will be more effective...
"Why would you always pretend to know everything when you havent read a single book, DAD? I HATE YOU !!!!"
(Ooops... Sorry; dont consider that last line.... =)
As for my quitting process, it wasnt that natural and easy, but I think that e-cigs can be very effective and a good quitting aid. Nowadays I'm enjoying them better...
When it comes to the fact that "smokers are in denial", I think that this is a very simplistic statement typical of "ignorant cows"... Mind you, I do not mean to offend anyone here... I DONT think you are ignorant in any way... But the statement is biased 'per se'...
Of course that the addiction does go a long way; conditioning possibly your whole view on the matter; cigarettes are 'designed' to be effective drugs, etc. And they COULD very well kill you. Having said that I would have chosen to go on smoking, and NOT because I was in denial or biased some how but simply because it was a personal choice which implied some sort of philosophy I think goes deeper than that of 'living healthy as a nazi-standard'... Many smart people have made valid points about 'smoking being a pleasure and worthy...' But HEY! What would they know? They were in denial... There are even many books in some social studies in connection with this issue. But some people will always try to force their 'simplistic' views on others by means of violent arguments as an attempt to make them look 'stupid', but they may be the ones ending up sounding as "nazis"... This is very common in this FORUM with many 'touchy topics'...
Once for instance, a guy started a thread for tips on 'dripping and driving'; his aim being that of dealing with or finding a 'safe' way to do it, if any; at traffic lights, etc. Guess what? He was treated like a Convicted Criminal... They even told him something very similar to some arguments here like "Who would like to kill a pedestrian? No one. So... How come we could even consider this?" The thread had to be closed.
I think it is enrooted deeply into our nature to 'feel' our point of view is 'the correct' and ONLY ONE being objective. So we might even feel 'violated' by having to consider others' opinions. Then again, this practice is also expected when we are part of a 'minority'... So, maybe we should know better and respect a bit more... This way WE will be more respected in return... And our arguments will be more effective...
"Why would you always pretend to know everything when you havent read a single book, DAD? I HATE YOU !!!!"
(Ooops... Sorry; dont consider that last line.... =)
I quit 3 weeks or so ago as well. I haven't run into this issue yet, but I'm sure someone will mention it to me. Well said OP. Keep on vaping!
There are many things that will kill you.
I've tried quite a few of em over my life.
Are you fat ( was overweight somewhat and lost 40#)?
Do you take chances in the way you drive( I was a daredevil on a motorcycle and came out ok (go figure))?
Do you drink (had a friend drink himself to death).
Name for yourself what will kill you. Some things fast, and others not so fast, if at all.
No cigs are not a wise choice, but don't zero in on it as the main killer. Actually it's flipping to obesity related issues.
That's not making excuses, it's putting things into perspective. If you do multiple things of a dangerous nature, there is a good chance you will go down from the combo rather than an individual thing.
Example:
You are fat, never get off of the couch and drink heavy as well as smoke. Add to it that you have a high stress level....Yer going down. Chances are it will be before a cig will off you.
I've tried quite a few of em over my life.
Are you fat ( was overweight somewhat and lost 40#)?
Do you take chances in the way you drive( I was a daredevil on a motorcycle and came out ok (go figure))?
Do you drink (had a friend drink himself to death).
Name for yourself what will kill you. Some things fast, and others not so fast, if at all.
No cigs are not a wise choice, but don't zero in on it as the main killer. Actually it's flipping to obesity related issues.
That's not making excuses, it's putting things into perspective. If you do multiple things of a dangerous nature, there is a good chance you will go down from the combo rather than an individual thing.
Example:
You are fat, never get off of the couch and drink heavy as well as smoke. Add to it that you have a high stress level....Yer going down. Chances are it will be before a cig will off you.
Definitely... Many of us agree... ... And some may not. But then there's this certain group who would always disagree and show their disagreement in a very agressive way as if it was stupid or even criminal not to 'be able' to see things their way... And, generally they would also happen to be very lousy as for their rhetorical logics and arguments...
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I know this is rhetorical, but… I VAPE.
Again rhetorical, but: You would be wrong…
In my case money was not a problem when I quit ‘tobacco cigarettes’… And when it comes to health-factor… Well I DO see this is a MAYOR POINT, nevertheless I happen to believe (It is because of my very culture; which I guess is as ‘objective’ as any other…) that the fact something may kill you is not ‘per se’ a reason for you to dismiss going for it ‘sine qua non’… Driving may kill you… Actually, “The Car Industry” has killed more human beings in history than any other war, disease, or whatever agent…
You may say: But we drive because it has become a NEED. True, but again: Many of us DO enjoy the PLEASURE of driving and go for it out of pure enjoyment… Are we in denial??
Actually I would neither recommend cigarettes to a non-smoker nor prevent him from trying them any way. This is simply because “who am I to determine what people should/ shouldn’t do…
Maybe the ‘cultural background’ tells us that CIGARETTES are not to be recommended… While this may sound as Politically correct and ‘common sense’, we could very well think differently… And make valid points…
I would not recommend alcoholic drinks to a teetotaller… Same case… Would this imply the fact that “there is no way anyone wants to” have alcoholic drinks, or am I missing something here?
No… Not that way; OF COURSE not… But…
Haven’t you been to SCHOOL? Come on… Not everyone starts off out of ‘personal commitment’, right?
Ok… Wait…
Maybe….
Mmmm….
Ok…
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Just to make it clear, I don´t have a point. And what I have said up so far made no sense at all. I was unaware that all smokers wanted to quit no matter how many of them choose to smoke and think they are “making a choice”.
Your Latest argument REALLY made me change my mind…
=)
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I quit smoking Cigarettes... plain and simple...
I always tell people that I used e-cigs to do it... adn STILL use them... of course, the response to that is "well, when are you going to quite using THOSE things?!"... as they sip their caffeine laden coffee that they find nothing wrong with...
Hypocrites... ask them when they are going to give up THAT?! and see what THEY say...
I always tell people that I used e-cigs to do it... adn STILL use them... of course, the response to that is "well, when are you going to quite using THOSE things?!"... as they sip their caffeine laden coffee that they find nothing wrong with...
Hypocrites... ask them when they are going to give up THAT?! and see what THEY say...
I do not think they are hypocrites... They are simply 'confused' as they do 'see' this as an 'extension' to a bad habit. And, mind you, it could very well be seen this way. As for the caffeine, you are RIGHT 100 %... Kind of the same thing... But it is 'politically correct' or generally accepted, in a way... So they are, say, 'blind' to make the connection... Many times we take some things for granted... The fact they are NOT in our position prevents them from seeing the true nature of an addictive behavior (caffeine) which is basically the same thing.... But, then again, since WE are in this position maybe we EXPECT them to 'see' what we see... Or focus to much on 'our truth'... We should also consider that they 'cannot' make this type of connection and are not being "bad people"... And this way maybe would put us in an even better position from where we could 'enlighten' them further, thus being more constructive.
I think that THIS ANGER you and many of us have towards the 'anti' has to stop, because otherwise we would be acting the same way... I mean...
Most former smokers become 'ANTI-smokers' as in the totally nazi way... When 'seconds' before they were complaining about the Antis themselves...
See my point...?
I mean, I also kind of hate this attitude but... I think we should find 'a balance'... And not be so fundamentalistic about it.
They are wrong, just maybe not 100 % and dont deserve to burn in hell...
If we took their lack of courage as something which translates into the fact 'we are responsible to inform', then, we could try to make them change their minds or respect us in a more effective way...
I mean... Your saying 'hypocrites' reflects anger, and this is to be understood... Same with their 'position'... From this type of comprehensive approach we could see in a more natural light the way to reach some sort of 'raising-awareness ground'...
=)
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So... I think, from now on we should cut down on the "HOW BAD MOTHERS" only-type of posts and start to think on 'mods' to 'enlighten' or "brainwash" or 'de-program' them... Meaning... Lets stop this 'I-hate-the-world-punk-rock-attitude' and let's get real...
We already know the FACTS: THEY ARE THE DEVIL AND WE HATE THEM...
Lets MOVE ON... Onto the SOLUTIONS now...
How could we 'fix' this...?
Any thoughts?
Maybe we could share what we do other than hating them...
We already know the FACTS: THEY ARE THE DEVIL AND WE HATE THEM...
Lets MOVE ON... Onto the SOLUTIONS now...
How could we 'fix' this...?
Any thoughts?
Maybe we could share what we do other than hating them...
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The definition of "quit" is both blurry and subjective to the person. Since I still use a PV, maybe I haven't quit as far as you are concerned. What I have quit however, is killing myself with cigarettes. And that is enough for me. Whether or not that satisfies your requirements for "quit" is honestly of no importance. Pointing and saying "you haven't really quit" serves no useful purpose whatsoever. It may be technically accurate. It still accomplishes nothing other than to make you sound like a jerk for belittling the achievements we have all attained, or are striving for.
I don't mean this as an attack on those of you who feel that way, I just don't see the need to sugar-coat things. If I come across as a jerk for saying it, it is because I am a jerk. But I will gladly own up to it.
I don't mean this as an attack on those of you who feel that way, I just don't see the need to sugar-coat things. If I come across as a jerk for saying it, it is because I am a jerk. But I will gladly own up to it.
I was being sarcastic. This isn't something you can analyze or pick apart piece by piece.
Who doesn't want to quit smoking cigarettes? They bring you down.
I'm not talking about the nicotine aspect, i'm talking about the actually cigarette, the one that contains tar and 4000 chemicals.
I have no idea why you wouldn't want to quit. Did you enjoy smelling like an ashtray? or making people cough around you? did you enjoy littering with your dirty cig butts? because I sure as hell didn't.
Some people want to drink soy milk instead of regular milk.
If you didn't want to quit nicotine i'm all for it. I'm vaping aren't I? Do I love it? hell yes!
But did I want to quit cigarettes? YES! Was I a pack a day smoker? NO
I was tired of having my lungs hurt, and worrying about cancer. I was tired of smelling like crap. I was tired of flicking my butts out the window, or smoking in the car. I was tired of everyone else breathing in my cigarette smoke.
Who doesn't want to quit smoking cigarettes? They bring you down.
I'm not talking about the nicotine aspect, i'm talking about the actually cigarette, the one that contains tar and 4000 chemicals.
I have no idea why you wouldn't want to quit. Did you enjoy smelling like an ashtray? or making people cough around you? did you enjoy littering with your dirty cig butts? because I sure as hell didn't.
Some people want to drink soy milk instead of regular milk.
If you didn't want to quit nicotine i'm all for it. I'm vaping aren't I? Do I love it? hell yes!
But did I want to quit cigarettes? YES! Was I a pack a day smoker? NO
I was tired of having my lungs hurt, and worrying about cancer. I was tired of smelling like crap. I was tired of flicking my butts out the window, or smoking in the car. I was tired of everyone else breathing in my cigarette smoke.
I received the same response at first (not by my doctor or my kids, mind you.. my old fashioned dad)
He responded with "icks" and "gross" and "that thing smells"... I finally got so mad, I told him "FINE! Would you rather I smoke?! I"ll go back to smoking!" I've never seen someone actually drop their jaw before.. And I promptly lit 2 cigs and smoked them.
We were traveling at the time, and I still smoked the occasional cigarette. After the completely shocked look on his face, and then he had to sit next to "smelly me".. I never heard another bad word from him.. only encouragement.
Yes, it wasn't the most mature thing I could have done... but sometimes I just get fed up listening to ignorance
He responded with "icks" and "gross" and "that thing smells"... I finally got so mad, I told him "FINE! Would you rather I smoke?! I"ll go back to smoking!" I've never seen someone actually drop their jaw before.. And I promptly lit 2 cigs and smoked them.
We were traveling at the time, and I still smoked the occasional cigarette. After the completely shocked look on his face, and then he had to sit next to "smelly me".. I never heard another bad word from him.. only encouragement.
Yes, it wasn't the most mature thing I could have done... but sometimes I just get fed up listening to ignorance
lol @ leanne
my family has been very encouraging. i personally don't really think of myself as a quitter, though. i'm still inhaling something. to me, that makes it different from just chewing the gum or using a patch. they always say "congrats, how long has it been now?" and i keep reminding them that i'm not the same as my sister who quit 10 years ago completely cold turkey. i guess i feel i don't deserve the same recognition as someone who doesn't need any nicotine products, especially one that simulates smoking. the odd thing about PV's is that unlike using gum or cold turkey, i can have a cig now and then and it doesn't put me back to square one or make me desire more cigs. i still prefer the PV. my mother would love to quit and i feel especially bad when she's praising me and telling me i have so much more determination than she has, etc. i keep telling her switching to the ecig wasn't difficult and she should try one. it didn't take a ton of willpower and determination for me. not to diminish the OP's success, i just mean for me i don't feel it's correct for me to tell people i'm a non-smoker, even though if you want to get technical about it i'm not "smoke"ing.
my family has been very encouraging. i personally don't really think of myself as a quitter, though. i'm still inhaling something. to me, that makes it different from just chewing the gum or using a patch. they always say "congrats, how long has it been now?" and i keep reminding them that i'm not the same as my sister who quit 10 years ago completely cold turkey. i guess i feel i don't deserve the same recognition as someone who doesn't need any nicotine products, especially one that simulates smoking. the odd thing about PV's is that unlike using gum or cold turkey, i can have a cig now and then and it doesn't put me back to square one or make me desire more cigs. i still prefer the PV. my mother would love to quit and i feel especially bad when she's praising me and telling me i have so much more determination than she has, etc. i keep telling her switching to the ecig wasn't difficult and she should try one. it didn't take a ton of willpower and determination for me. not to diminish the OP's success, i just mean for me i don't feel it's correct for me to tell people i'm a non-smoker, even though if you want to get technical about it i'm not "smoke"ing.
If an alcoholic was sitting next to you idly sipping a glass of ice water, would you even be tempted you say, "yes, but you're still drinking?" Or a person trying to control their weight eating a carrot stick, "yes, but you're still eating?" It amazes me how so many people who can't help but understand what an addiction is, still don't seem to.
For myself, I live life with a lot of empathy for people. When I hear things, I try to put myself in their position before I say anything or make a judgement about them. Unfortunately, it seems like that is not the norm. Yes, I disappoint myself often in dealing with people....
I call them hypocrites because they make a judgement about my addiction to nicotine while completely ignoring their own addiction to caffeine... that's all...
Of course, my addiction to nicotine came through smoking which is very detrimental to my general health due to the way I had to get my fix and publically very visible and olfactorily repugnant.
Their's, on the other hand, is satisfied by standing in line and shelling out $4 for a cup of caffeine laced coffee... or dragging themselves in first thing in the morning and waving everyone off until they get their first cup of caffeine laced coffee... all completely and totally socially acceptable...
Though I never thought about it, in some part of my mind, I recognized the wisdom of earnestly telling the first person who asked, "this is my anti smoking device" (which it truly is). They all knew I smoked and have been quite proud of "how hard I'm trying to quit". If they ask when I'm going to be able to stop using it, I honestly tell them "I don't quite know".
I leave it at that. I like the positive feedback and goodwill and privately celebrate the months without cigarettes. I don't personally think about whether I've 'quit' but now that I do think on it, I don't feel quite like I have. It doesn't turn out to bother me.
I will say the person who always gave me the hardest time about smoking was one of the fattest people I know so maybe their attitude says more about them than about our habits.
I leave it at that. I like the positive feedback and goodwill and privately celebrate the months without cigarettes. I don't personally think about whether I've 'quit' but now that I do think on it, I don't feel quite like I have. It doesn't turn out to bother me.
I will say the person who always gave me the hardest time about smoking was one of the fattest people I know so maybe their attitude says more about them than about our habits.
If they are fat, tell em, "Don't go there, if you want to talk about addictions!!!" If they say "You shouldn't smoke.", and they are overweight 50+ lbs, you can be as rude and reply, "You shouldn't eat!"
We take on a new, safe and better habit in place of a old and risky one. How is that a bad thing?
Everyone...I mean everyone,,, has habits, good and bad. Nobody is flawless.
We take on a new, safe and better habit in place of a old and risky one. How is that a bad thing?
Everyone...I mean everyone,,, has habits, good and bad. Nobody is flawless.
Haaa. Good... We may be 'up to something' here... But this may be a bit harsh and you may come across as an 'enemy' to them, which in turn could translate into more rivalry... So, maybe we could point this out but 'diplomatically' as in pseudo-blackmailing them to shut up, which might demonstrate our 'power' of being able to defend our position in a more convenient way...
I think this is a good way to go... Finding their 'weak points' in connection with bad habits and pointing them out at the moment of their 'attack'... But in a 'nice'/ ironic... civilized way...
EG...
-When are you going to QUIT that then?
-Actually, I do not think that quitting would pay off... The way I see it is that the possibility of enjoying my 'addiction' this healthier cancer-free way totally outweights the benefits of quitting... This is a personal criteria; same as yours with food, coffee, etc. etc...
Maybe listing their 'pervertion' (heee) within some larger list could be very 'diplomatic' and at the same time effective...
And then... As they pull any face, no matter what the outcome... We move onto another topic, making a statement: This conversation is DONE...
What do you think?
I was going for something along these lines and it has kind of worked for me with many many people... I wouldnt know if it is 'the ultimate reply', but...
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