Am I the only person who has a problem with ppl making juice in their homes?

[sub4me]

I might be addicted to caffeine, infact I probably am lol, however I use caffeine as a choice and I will Not explode or die if I choose not to use it. Same goes for nicotine doesn't matter if its from smoking or vaping it's a choice and you will not die if you don't use either.

Look, I'm not for insane regulation but I'm not for letting anyone flood the market with whatever they decide to bottle. I'm quite sure there will be a middle ground here that pleases most. I just don't agree with the extreme views from both sides.

 

[Tangaroav]

I detect a sleight of hand here. Where do you see "so many refusing self regualtion as proposes by AEMSA"? Refuse our own vendors choices to join whatever organization they choose? Not understanding what you are getting at. I can't remember seeing anyone say they actually oppose voluntary regulations from any of our own organizations. It would seem to me that there have been some (not saying you) that are calling for obligatory regulations, and I am saying who in the bejeezus do you think can make things obligatory? Certainly not AEMSA!

The rules of AEMSA are clear and I see respecting them as obligatory to maintain a membership: Here is, ( again), list of forbidden substances).

The following will not be added or used in the creation of e-liquids

(a) Including but not limited to:
(i) Diacetyl
(ii) WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids)
(iii) Medicinal - or prescription medicinal
(iv) Illegal or controlled substances
(v) Caffeine
(vi) Vitamins or Dietary supplements (other than for preservative purposes)
(vii) Acetyl Propionyl (2,3-‐Pentanedione)
(viii) Artifical Food Coloring
1) AEMSA members will not add any artificial coloring or dyes during the e-liquid manufacturing process. Non vendor
manufactured flavorings containing artificial food coloring will identify food coloring information to include coloring
number in advertising and product descriptions

(iv) AEMSA reserves the right to review, evaluate and deny/approve any potential substance used in the creation of e-liquids
at any given time

IMO we, the consumers, must do more than 'not oppose' we should ONLY buy from AEMSA certified sellers. Otherwise, talking about sefl regulation is just hot wind.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I might be addicted to caffeine, infact I probably am lol, however I use caffeine as a choice and I will Not explode or die if I choose not to use it. Same goes for nicotine doesn't matter if its from smoking or vaping it's a choice and you will not die if you don't use either.

Look, I'm not for insane regulation but I'm not for letting anyone flood the market with whatever they decide to bottle. I'm quite sure there will be a middle ground here that pleases most. I just don't agree with the extreme views from both sides.

The extreme view from one side is: keep it as is and separate the wheat from the chafe.

The extreme view on the other side: revamp the system and pray that we can keep the parts about it that we like.

It may help if people spent more time seeking the earnest vendors and less talking about vendors that they ought not purchase from. We have a middle ground right now -- the choice of a plethora of vendors. Choose according to your own standards. If they don't exist, you made your choice.

 

[Mr.Mann]

The rules of AEMSA are clear and I see respecting them as obligatory to maintain a membership: Here is, ( again), list of forbidden substances).

The following will not be added or used in the creation of e-liquids

(a) Including but not limited to:
(i) Diacetyl
(ii) WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids)
(iii) Medicinal - or prescription medicinal
(iv) Illegal or controlled substances
(v) Caffeine
(vi) Vitamins or Dietary supplements (other than for preservative purposes)
(vii) Acetyl Propionyl (2,3-‐Pentanedione)
(viii) Artifical Food Coloring
1) AEMSA members will not add any artificial coloring or dyes during the e-liquid manufacturing process. Non vendor
manufactured flavorings containing artificial food coloring will identify food coloring information to include coloring
number in advertising and product descriptions

(iv) AEMSA reserves the right to review, evaluate and deny/approve any potential substance used in the creation of e-liquids
at any given time

IMO we, the consumers, must do more than 'not oppose' we should ONLY buy from AEMSA certified sellers. Otherwise, talking about sefl regulation is just hot wind.

Only buy from AEMSA vendors? That is just absurd -- unless you have 100% faith in them that they are the only vendors who have those, and generally speaking, high standards -- trust me, they're not. That does not mean I have a problem with AMESA, just that what they do is what they do, and no indication necessarily of what all others are not doing. I am sure you know that. I get that you are being supportive for a good organization, but be careful not to make it seem that if a vendor ain't in that club that they are by default suspect.

 

[rondasherrill]

When did vaping become the mantra of quitting smoking?? If someone wants to quit they will they don't need to vape to do so and most probably wouldn't want to do so unless they thought there was at least some consumer protections to the products they are using.

No offense, but this statement shows a clear misunderstanding of the physiological and psychological affects of addiction. For reference, the success rate of quitting cold turkey is in the range of 3-6%. Depending on the source, the success rate of vaping to quit smoking is somewhere between 30-80%. Even assuming the lowest as true, it's still 5x more effective than the best case scenario of going cold turkey.

There's a lot of people who think vaping is safe or safer but that's not the case.

While no one can diffinitively state the long term affects of vaping, studies have been done and they all(aside from false/broken studies funded by anti-vaping organizations) agree that while it might not be perfectly safe, it is overwhelmingly safer than smoking cigarettes.
Clinical Research: Electronic Cigarettes
Lab Reports: ecigarettes
Scientific Opinon: Electronic cigarettes

As far as contaminants in e-liquids... I am going to fall back on the same point others have. Our market has fairly successfully regulated itself this far. Compared to the regulated market, we have had a fairly low incidence of issues in the last 5 years.

 

[JoppaRoadCruiser]

I might be addicted to caffeine, infact I probably am lol, however I use caffeine as a choice and I will Not explode or die if I choose not to use it. Same goes for nicotine doesn't matter if its from smoking or vaping it's a choice and you will not die if you don't use either.

Look, I'm not for insane regulation but I'm not for letting anyone flood the market with whatever they decide to bottle. I'm quite sure there will be a middle ground here that pleases most. I just don't agree with the extreme views from both sides.

Yet you are ok with telling other individuals what standards they should adhere to when buying their liquids? Find a vendor that meets your standards and buy from them. If I want to buy liquid from some guy making it in his basement I should be free to make that decision. The fact that you feel the need to tell me what my standards should be when buying e-liquid seems quite extreme.

 

[Tangaroav]

The extreme view from one side is: keep it as is and separate the wheat from the chafe.

The extreme view on the other side: revamp the system and pray that we can keep the parts about it that we like.

It may help if people spent more time seeking the earnest vendors and less talking about vendors that they ought not purchase from. We have a middle ground right now -- the choice of a plethora of vendors. Choose according to your own standards. If they don't exist, you made your choice.

No need to revamp anything. Just agree and support minimal standards that offer safe products including proper labeling . This is self regulation.

The free-for-all market will not last, that's for sure and we all know it. Too many incompetent, negligent and for-profit-at-all-cost vendors around.

It is not realistic to expect the average e-liquid consumer to research this complex product and make an informed choice. This is simply not acceptable and will not work. Only a very small proportion of vapers are making this a hobby, frequent ecf and are educated enough on e-liquid to do so.

I don't see any other alternative being proposed to self regulation except the status quo and the caveat emptor that you propose. IMO, only self-regulation is acceptable and can prevent the worst from happening. But, I am not too optimistic of the outcome.

 

[Mr.Mann]

No need to revamp anything. Just agree and support minimal standards that offer safe products including proper labeling . This is self regulation.

The free-for-all market will not last, that's for sure and we all know it. Too many incompetent, negligent and for-profit-at-all-cost vendors around.

It is not realistic to expect the average e-liquid consumer to research this complex product and make an informed choice. This is simply not acceptable and will not work. Only a very small proportion of vapers are making this a hobby, frequent ecf and are educated enough on e-liquid to do so.

I don't see any other alternative being proposed to self regulation except the status quo and caveat emptor that you propose. IMO, only self-regulation is acceptable and can prevent the worst from happening. But, I am not too optimistic of the outcome.

I propose to find what it is you want, after determining what matters, as opposed to having someone lay it out in front of you with a seal of safety. No seal of safety will keep you safe, but maybe it's the impression of safety that is key? And, once again, I am all for standards to be met by those that want to meet them. "Self-regulation" (in my mind) implies volunteerism, but it looks to me that you are calling for forced regulation, or regulations that have to be enforced by a governing body for the entire market. That ain't self-regulation.

 

[Tangaroav]

Mr.Mann,

I understand, to my volontary acceptance standards by manufaturers actively supported by the consumers, you propose the status quo with a caveat emptor .

I understand your position. I could live with it as I consider myself educated in the matter, (although minimaly I should add). IMO it is not good enough for the average e-liquid consumers. It is a recipe for imposed regulations by our govts to protect them. That is why I don't agree with it.

I will only buy, (including my DIY ingredients), from vendors that have the AEMSA logo on their sites/store. This will assure me, amongst other things, that avoidable contaminants are not in my e-liquids. That is a good start as I accept the non-avoidable risks of vaping.

That is MY way of contributing to self regulation and maybe help minimize govt interventions. ... although it is probably too late, it is better than doing nothing,

 

[Mr.Mann]

Mr.Mann,

I understand, to my voluntary acceptance standards by manufacturers actively supported by the consumers, you propose the status quo with a caveat emptor .

I understand your position. I could live with it as I consider myself educated in the matter, (although minimaly I should add). IMO it is not good enough for the average e-liquid consumers. It is a recipe for imposed regulations by our govts to protect them. That is why I don't agree with it.

I will only buy, (including my DIY ingredients), from vendors that have the AEMSA logo on their sites/store. This will assure me, amongst other things, that avoidable contaminants are not in my e-liquids. That is a good start as I accept the non-avoidable risks of vaping.

That is MY way of contributing to self regulation and maybe help minimize govt interventions. ... although it is probably too late, it is better than doing nothing,

That's fine. And you are fine with me. But know that there is never a situation when dealing with any product that has risks where the buyer ought not beware. I have seen this industry get better in so many ways in the 4 years I've been vaping, so I would like to see it continue. Oh, and I and others do my/our part, and have done so, by taking issues direct to the vendors -- and have seen several change their ways. I am happy that AEMSA makes you feel that you know exactly what's not in your liquid, but you know what the caveat is.

 

[sub4me]

Maybe we should do away with regulations for everything food, medicine, water, health, safety. People will just self regulate, lol, extremism.

 

[sub4me]

Let's say all the doom you guys think will happen does happen. You say that the cig a likes will still around so there you go vape away cause your so addicted to it, you need it, you can't live without it. Or perhaps start your stockpile now, fill your garage with DIY stuff, stack it to the ceiling if your so worried the vaping police are coming.

 

[sub4me]

I still have access to tobacco, alcohol, guns, food, medicine, the list goes on. All those are regulated for health and safety, that's common sense, and nobody has come knocking to take those things away even though there's proposals to do so all the time. But it never happens. There's proposals to make tobacco illegal, so what, it never gets anywhere. Extremist are everywhere.

 

[WillyZee]

Let's say all the doom you guys think will happen does happen. You say that the cig a likes will still around so there you go vape away cause your so addicted to it, you need it, you can't live without it. Or perhaps start your stockpile now, fill your garage with DIY stuff, stack it to the ceiling if your so worried the vaping police are coming.

seriously dude ... why do you always post as if it's you against everyone else? ... and what's with the "you guys" comments?

 

[rondasherrill]

Let's say all the doom you guys think will happen does happen. You say that the cig a likes will still around so there you go vape away cause your so addicted to it, you need it, you can't live without it. Or perhaps start your stockpile now, fill your garage with DIY stuff, stack it to the ceiling if your so worried the vaping police are coming.

I am 100% positive beyond the shadow of a doubt that we don't have to worry about it going away like that. Reason being: Taxes. Even if they pass laws saying it can't be taxed as a tobacco product(like here in Missouri), just give it time. Vaping is a potential untapped by the govt as of yet billion dollar industry, and you can GUARANTEE they want their slice of that.

The liquids will manage to stick around because they are the huge money-maker. That having been said, I foresee the prices on e-liquid going UP UP UP(Taxes, testing, etc...). This WILL happen. We just aren't there yet. When it does happen, 95% of the GOOD vendors will go away for not having the funds to deal with the governments requirements.

That having been said, I vape unflavored, and have like a gallon of Nic base, so I'm good for at least a couple years, during which time I will wean myself off.

The hardware... OFFICIALLY I see the hardware being narrowed down to the cig-a-likes and eGo types. Outside the bubble of this forum, those are what is popular and looked at by big tobacco and well known, and most bigger types won't have the funding to pass government "muster". UNOFFICIALLY I foresee that the hardware will continue on its merry course, with the addendum that it will be called something else for sales purposes. "This Provari isn't an e-cigarette. It's a flash light with a detachable head. See the LED attachment here..." (READ: Obvious long cut dry tobacco being sold as "pipe tobacco" currently)

seriously dude ... why do you always post as if it's you against everyone else? ... and what's with the "you guys" comments?

No offense to sub4me, but given post history I highly doubt they are a vaper at all. Just showed up here to try to see the viewpoint here.

 

[sub4me]

I'm not against everyone else and you guys, those guys, us guys, are just spoken or in this case writtern terms not terms to offended anyone in particular.

I am against extremist.

 

[WillyZee]

I'm not against everyone else and you guys, those guys, us guys, are just spoken or in this case writtern terms not terms to offended anyone in particular.

I am against extremist.

it's not the first time I've seen you post your trollish style comments.

 

[JoppaRoadCruiser]

I still have access to tobacco, alcohol, guns, food, medicine, the list goes on. All those are regulated for health and safety, that's common sense, and nobody has come knocking to take those things away even though there's proposals to do so all the time. But it never happens. There's proposals to make tobacco illegal, so what, it never gets anywhere. Extremist are everywhere.

Uhhh actually it has happened and continues to happen. Have you not heard about some of the raids on farmers markets?

Raw Foods Raid - The Fight For the Right To Eat What You Want - YouTube

Raw Milk Raid on Amish Farmer Highlights Stupid FDA Tactics - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Might want to do a little research before making such claims.

 

[sub4me]

Nope, I'm a vaper also not here to offend. I came here cause there's some great reading here. I have never attacked anyone or been rude.

 

[sub4me]

Uhhh actually it has happened and continues to happen. Have you not heard about some of the raids on farmers markets?

Raw Foods Raid - The Fight For the Right To Eat What You Want - YouTube

Raw Milk Raid on Amish Farmer Highlights Stupid FDA Tactics - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Again extremist, not living within the rules. Is you grocery store being shut down, how about your tobacco shop, or party store?? No, cause they operate under the rules and laws.
Might want to do a little research before making such claims.