Am I the only person who has a problem with ppl making juice in their homes?

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I heard from a FOAF that an ejuice vender was ...... off at a customer for some reason and so thats what he did right in the bottle.



I have a sick sense of humore



I believe industry thrives and customers benefit with no regulation. Just a list of ingredients should be on the bottle thats all we need.

I wasn't mad at the customer....that's just my "secret sauce".
I keep it in a bucket in the bathroom next to the toilet plunger/stir stick the previous occupant left, beside my cleaning supplies and rat trap (One day I'll finally nail that little poop machine).
I had to move it there cause the roof AC unit kept leaking freon on my prep table. (I only have so many rags to clean things you know)and the only sink that works is in the loo.

I put it in ALL my eliquids for added "kick".
I even found a way to increase my GM a bit by diluting down my nicotine while selling it as 24mg.

Stuff's just flying off the shelves.

I'm really excited cause we're getting ready to premiere a new flavor that me and my new employee from Liberia have been working on:
We're gonna call it "E-boláh" (Accent on the AHHHHH)

Sorry I'd love to tell you more but I gotta go because I gotta "GO"
Waste not, want not.

 

[Tangaroav]

OMG stupid dumbphone messed up my grammar

Sent from my Droid Maxx via Tapatalk

Yes, no wonder, it was quite a long post to type on a phone.....

 

[dragonflie]

Yes, no wonder, it was quite a long post to type on a phone.....

Heh, yes I knew it was a risk . But the question is, why do I feel the need to point out that I found errors and is because I'm on a phone, when the very reason I have my sig is to avoid apologizing for auto correct!

Sent from my Droid Maxx via Tapatalk

 

[Tangaroav]

I wasn't mad at the customer....that's just my "secret sauce".
I keep it in a bucket in the bathroom next to the toilet plunger/stir stick the previous occupant left, beside my cleaning supplies and rat trap (One day I'll finally nail that little poop machine).
I had to move it there cause the roof AC unit kept leaking freon on my prep table. (I only have so many rags to clean things you know)and the only sink that works is in the loo.

I put it in ALL my eliquids for added "kick".
I even found a way to increase my GM a bit by diluting down my nicotine while selling it as 24mg.

Stuff's just flying off the shelves.

I'm really excited cause we're getting ready to premiere a new flavor that me and my new employee from Liberia have been working on:
We're gonna call it "E-boláh" (Accent on the AHHHHH)

Sorry I'd love to tell you more but I gotta go because I gotta "GO"
Waste not, want not.

LOL, that WAS a good interlude. The E-bolah will be hot .

 

[EddardinWinter]

At best:

We should have some accepted standards, and the label could confirm certified compliance to those.

AEMSA's standards is a good start, although their membership costs are too high for a mon&pop or garage type business.

At least:

Some commonly used ingredients have been indentified as potentialy dangerous and avoidable in the production of e-liquids. They should be listed if present.

Does AEMSA still refuse to endorse any e-liquid with artificial coloring? Did you know that is because one of their leaders (I forget which one) has allergies to food coloring? They also will not endorse liquids that contain WTAs, which are critical to many ex-smokers early in their vaping experience. Sorry, that organization lost support from me when I discovered why and how the regulations were written. I have no issue with requiring full disclosure, but the requirements (as written the last time I looked at them) were arbitrary and capricious, IMHO.

That said, there is some good stuff in the AEMSA regulations, and much of it is good practice.

 

[Tangaroav]

Does AEMSA still refuse to endorse any e-liquid with artificial coloring? Did you know that is because one of their leaders (I forget which one) has allergies to food coloring? They also will not endorse liquids that contain WTAs, which are critical to many ex-smokers early in their vaping experience. Sorry, that organization lost support from me when I discovered why and how the regulations were written. I have no issue with requiring full disclosure, but the requirements (as written the last time I looked at them) were arbitrary and capricious, IMHO.

That said, there is some good stuff in the AEMSA regulations, and much of it is good practice.

Yes they still forbid artificial coloring and WTA :

We all know artificial coloring has been associated with increased risks of cancer since many years. Why would anyone want it, in their food or their e-liquid ?

WTA has been debated since a few years. Rolygate's post explains the risks and value for vapers : http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/230570-wta-e-liquid-issues.html . I understand your position on this.

I can only thrust that it was excluded from AEMSA standards was based on facts. I dont expect that e-liquid manufacturers would agree to any exclusions based on whims .

Are there other standards alternatives to AEMSA ?

 

[DC2]

Civil damages won't cut it. Criminal punishment will prevent vendors from supplying these types of liquids and will detour most from considering it as an option. Of course you may have a criminal market for it but at least those substances would not be on a store shelf like they are now. This isnt' hard to understand.

Can anyone link to anything about where such products have been on store shelves?

 

[Sirius]

I had a heated debate this week with a local vendor who makes his juice that he sells in his "lab" which is just his living room. I tried to explain to him that his living room is NOT a sterile lab....and that the possiblilties for contamination are rampant. Air born pathogens, dust, dirt etc can easily get into this juice and then be inhaled (vaped)

I further explained that the need to sterile work space with stainless steel counters, sterile containers etc are a MUST.

I find it rather disgusting, although not surprising, that so many "juice makers" are popping up everywhere making juice in their homes and selling to unwitting newbies and even experienced vapers alike. Now with all this talk of Diacetyl (see Suicide Bunny for example) being found in our juices....and no disclosure from these guys...it's alarming to say the least.

We all quite smoking because we didn't want to die...slowly and painfully. Without any type of regulation we are at the mercy of these juice makers and their word about their products.

I personally will only buy juice from trusted vendors with test results to show that their juices are clean. I also always ask to see their labs. Any vendor who refuses to show me their lab and test results are discarded immediately.


am I alone here?

I haven't read through all the posts but I do agree with you. I only buy from two vendors for the same reasons. They have clean labs and only use the best ingredients.
Those two vendors are well tested ones. Ahlusion and The Plume Room. I have been asked why I pay so much for my vape, when there are cheaper juice vendors out there. I tell them that because when I was a newbie, I went through a lot of cheap juices that tasted like ..... I would imagine because they were made with about as much care as one would if making it in a bathroom. Ikr? Gross but it's true.

 

[Sirius]

Do you check the health inspection reports of every fast food joint and restraunt you eat at? Probably not. I am pretty sure you would be appalled at the findings. If it tastes good then vape it and enjoy. If your that concerned then buy your own DIY from a Certified lab, create your own pressurized over oxygenated sterile containment mixing lab and make your own juice. Until all that happens, Id stop nit picking.

Actually yes I for one do. Any restaurant with a below A rating gets no business from me.

 

[Sirius]

Gosh..some of you really might just consider going back to smoking. Ya'll are gonna kill ya selves with stress!
Simple folks, just use common sense and buy from reputable juice vendors. Proven and well respected. Ask those vendors for photos of their labs and what flavors they use. AHL uses their own extracts that have been proven safe. TPR also.

 

[Tangaroav]

I haven't read through all the posts but I do agree with you. I only buy from two vendors for the same reasons. They have clean labs and only use the best ingredients.
There two vendors are well tested ones. Ahlusion and The Plume Room. I have been asked why I pay so much for my vape, when there are cheaper juice vendors out there. I tell them that because when I was a newbie, I went through a lot of cheap juices that tasted like ..... I would imagine because they were made with about as much care as one would if making it in a bathroom. Ikr? Gross but it's true.

On Ahlusion web site:
We strive to keep our mixes as clean, and clear as possible. Our e-liquids do not contain artificial colors, gum acacia, xantham gum, Citric Acid (CAS: 77-92-9), Diacetyl (CAS: 431-03-8), Acetoin (CAS: 513-86-0), Acetyl Propionyl (CAS: 600-14-6) , or Caffeine (CAS: 58-08-2).

Looks good.

 

[Sirius]

I really don't understand how people can believe e-liquid will remain un regulated, or should remain un regulated. We live in a regulated society. Short of living in a cabin out in the middle of nowhere, off the grid and being self sufficient, there's no avoiding it...

Anyone that's aware of the current situation with the FDA know's that's not the case. EC's and e-liquids will be regulated.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Yes they still forbid artificial coloring and WTA :

We all know artificial coloring has been associated with increased risks of cancer since many years. Why would anyone want it, in their food or their e-liquid ?

WTA has been debated since a few years. Rolygate's post explains the risks and value for vapers : http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/230570-wta-e-liquid-issues.html . I understand your position on this.

I can only thrust that it was excluded from AEMSA standards was based on facts. I dont expect that e-liquid manufacturers would agree to any exclusions based on whims .

Are there other standards alternatives to AEMSA ?

I know that SOME colorings are associated with increased risks of cancer....but not all. I don't want it forbidden for an arbitrary reason, like X person has allergies...that is a BS reason to refuse to permit an endorsement. I would expect a regulating agency to do the research and provide studies backing up such a requirement/prohibition for each type that has an established hazard associated with it. Do I expect too much?

 

[Sirius]

On Ahlusion web site:
We strive to keep our mixes as clean, and clear as possible. Our e-liquids do not contain artificial colors, gum acacia, xantham gum, Citric Acid (CAS: 77-92-9), Diacetyl (CAS: 431-03-8), Acetoin (CAS: 513-86-0), Acetyl Propionyl (CAS: 600-14-6) , or Caffeine (CAS: 58-08-2).

Looks good.

It took awhile to find one, but yeah AHL is very clean and good e-liquid. 50 or more flavors to choose from too. They have a Fb page.

 

[Sirius]

Let me say this and please feel free to look it up yourself. There are many e liquids being sold as legal products which contain very bad substances ( the names of these substances or likeness of them are not allowed to be posted by name, so I won't) these liquids have labels on them, sealed caps, and can techinally be sold legally as e liquids. Why is that you may ask?? Because along with the nicotine, pg, and vg they also contain other substances which have not yet been deemed illegal but are extremely dangerous and because there is no oversight on e liquids anything one can bottle can be added and sold as a e liquid.

To me its about safety for everyone, including you, and myself. I'm in no way against vaping or smoking, or tobacco, or organic food either. I'm against abosolute no regulations and the danger that goes along with it. Please just think about it.

Ikr? The ones that really get me are the labels that just say, POISON KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN and ANIMALS...lol

 

[skoony]

i have a question.
when one says made in our clean labs,do they mean clean labs? or, their labs are clean?
there is a difference.
just asking.
mike

 

[AndriaD]

I know that SOME colorings are associated with increased risks of cancer....but not all. I don't want it forbidden for an arbitrary reason, like X person has allergies...that is a BS reason to refuse to permit an endorsement. I would expect a regulating agency to do the research and provide studies backing up such a requirement/prohibition for each type that has an established hazard associated with it. Do I expect too much?

In theory, I agree; arbitrary rules are BS. But here's the thing: why put artificial colors in ejuice anyway? I can understand that for food, sometimes it's a good idea to make it look appealing... but ejuice???? Most of it is somewhere between clear and brown -- no point whatever in coloring it, that would most likely just gum up coils, and it's not necessary.

But I still find their decision to completely exclude WTA rigid and self-defeating -- as you point out, and as I have found for myself, if I hadn't had recourse to WTA in this 2nd go-round, I might easily have succumbed to those cravings, and not be smoke-free now, and WHATEVER risk WTA provides is certainly FAR less than the risks of smoking. It should be pretty easy to test any given batch of WTA to see if it contains carcinogens in sufficient quantity to pose a health risk, and if there's any question, THAT could be added to any labels, but to simply exclude them on principle -- that's crazy.

Andria

 

[Sirius]

i have a question.
when one says made in our clean labs,do they mean clean labs? or, their labs are clean?
there is a difference.
just asking.
mike

As far as a question goes..that's a good one. I have asked for photos of the lab at Ahlusion from Wald and Alley. They posted one on Fb. Wald is a good man, answers any questions on his eliquid. Email him or Alley on their site where it says feed back. Or go on Facebook and ask Alley.

This is Wald behind the counter at AHL.

 

[Sirius]

In theory, I agree; arbitrary rules are BS. But here's the thing: why put artificial colors in ejuice anyway? I can understand that for food, sometimes it's a good idea to make it look appealing... but ejuice???? Most of it is somewhere between clear and brown -- no point whatever in coloring it, that would most likely just gum up coils, and it's not necessary.

But I still find their decision to completely exclude WTA rigid and self-defeating -- as you point out, and as I have found for myself, if I hadn't had recourse to WTA in this 2nd go-round, I might easily have succumbed to those cravings, and not be smoke-free now, and WHATEVER risk WTA provides is certainly FAR less than the risks of smoking. It should be pretty easy to test any given batch of WTA to see if it contains carcinogens in sufficient quantity to pose a health risk, and if there's any question, THAT could be added to any labels, but to simply exclude them on principle -- that's crazy.

Andria

Most don't do it by choice Andria..Commercial flavorings are colored either by their extracts or by choice. Either way, not a good idea to use commercial flavorings. A good percentage of the vendors out there use commercial flavorings from China.
Some NETs have flavorings added also. Idk about WTAs as I'm a bit leery of those.

 

[EddardinWinter]

In theory, I agree; arbitrary rules are BS. But here's the thing: why put artificial colors in ejuice anyway? I can understand that for food, sometimes it's a good idea to make it look appealing... but ejuice???? Most of it is somewhere between clear and brown -- no point whatever in coloring it, that would most likely just gum up coils, and it's not necessary.

But I still find their decision to completely exclude WTA rigid and self-defeating -- as you point out, and as I have found for myself, if I hadn't had recourse to WTA in this 2nd go-round, I might easily have succumbed to those cravings, and not be smoke-free now, and WHATEVER risk WTA provides is certainly FAR less than the risks of smoking. It should be pretty easy to test any given batch of WTA to see if it contains carcinogens in sufficient quantity to pose a health risk, and if there's any question, THAT could be added to any labels, but to simply exclude them on principle -- that's crazy.

Andria

Just because you don't want them or find them appealing doesn't mean that some people don't feel differently. Some people may want their strawberry shortcake to be red. If there is a safe red coloring out there, why shouldn't the vendor have the choice to use it? Can the same appeal of flavor you made for food be argued based on appearance for liquids to some consumers?

In any case, absent some verified hazard, that should be the vendor's choice...not mine, not yours, not AEMSA's IMHO.