Am I the only person who has a problem with ppl making juice in their homes?

[rondasherrill]

I have no problem whatever with AEMSA. Apparently I don't buy from anyone who participates in AEMSA, but I have no problem with their existence -- but I reserve the right to buy from whomever I choose, because I'm terribly afraid our stupid gov't is going to take that right away from me, for no good reason except that THEY THINK THEY CAN.

It may be that this will end up being put to rest in the courts, but it may be too late for some small businesses by the time it's finally decided. So I intend to enjoy my favorites while I can; stockpile a little (how long does pre-made ejuice last, a year?), and work on my DIY skills so that maybe eventually I can replicate some of the flavors I like best.

Andria

To answer your question... There are people now using nic that is 4 years old. After testing, the only downside was a slight degradation of the strength of the nic over time. Just make sure to follow proper storage procedures, i.e. preferrably amber bottles, stored in a dark space like a freezer, as little exposure to air as possible, etc...

 

[AndriaD]

...and the reasonable people saying, "this time when we come up with reasonable regulations, ANTZ is forbidden from partaking in the process. Sorry FDA, this means you. For you allowed your zealotry to be put before the science and so little Johnny was compelled to get a mod from the black market that wouldn't have existed if there wasn't a rush to regulate in the first place. Cause we all remember back in the Golden Era of vaping, way before those idiotic regulations, that there were no cases of exploding batteries except by those individuals that modified their own. So, I guess humanity needed to have little Johnny experience this horrible tragedy because some people were so hell bent on suggesting that there should be regulations, without realizing that in the Golden Era, things were pretty darn safe, as clearly the historical record indicates."

Seems to me that there is PLENTY of info about how to be safe with mods and batteries, all that's necessary is to READ IT AND PAY HEED, but as someone in another thread pointed out today, it's impossible to protect the stupid from themselves, but that's pretty much exactly what the FDA wants to do, and oh yeah, they want to protect the non-stupid from themselves too, even though the non-stupid aren't the ones who explode their mods and batteries.

I really don't need to be protected from myself. I believe in karma, and if I do something really stupid, I really need to be shown the error of my ways by the inflexible laws of the universe, to wake me up! I drank myself almost to the point of liver disease, and my body clearly demonstrated to me that that was no sensible way to carry on, if I wanted to live to raise my son. I was stupid enough to require that warning from my body, but not so stupid as to ignore it. The FDA apparently believes that every one of us is so stupid that we need them to decide what we can safely do, as if not one of us can read or follow simple instructions, and that really pisses me off.

But I digress from e-liquids. I agree with you completely; so far, the market has schooled and policed itself -- if some vendor does something diabolical, I'm confident that everyone who spends any time on ECF will soon know about it, and give that vendor a very wide berth, if not also a piece of someone's mind about it, and it'll probably echo around on Twitter/FB too. No vendor nowadays can afford to be insensitive to the market, or he very soon won't have a market.

Andria

 

[FlamingoTutu]

While we are on that wagon, why do some people insist that all liquid must come with a childproof cap? How about a choice? People with arthritis or other difficulties with their hands don’t need to be punished any more than they are by the handicaps themselves. Not saying that childproof caps are a bad thing, just that they are a menace for a sizable chunk of society and those people shouldn't be overlooked either.

 

[regal55]

I had a heated debate this week with a local vendor who makes his juice that he sells in his "lab" which is just his living room. I tried to explain to him that his living room is NOT a sterile lab....and that the possiblilties for contamination are rampant. Air born pathogens, dust, dirt etc can easily get into this juice and then be inhaled (vaped)

I further explained that the need to sterile work space with stainless steel counters, sterile containers etc are a MUST.

I find it rather disgusting, although not surprising, that so many "juice makers" are popping up everywhere making juice in their homes and selling to unwitting newbies and even experienced vapers alike. Now with all this talk of Diacetyl (see Suicide Bunny for example) being found in our juices....and no disclosure from these guys...it's alarming to say the least.

We all quite smoking because we didn't want to die...slowly and painfully. Without any type of regulation we are at the mercy of these juice makers and their word about their products.

I personally will only buy juice from trusted vendors with test results to show that their juices are clean. I also always ask to see their labs. Any vendor who refuses to show me their lab and test results are discarded immediately.


am I alone here?

Ever here of OCD. You need to watch some Geaorge Carlin.

 

[DrMA]

Interesting discussion. On the one hand there is no evidence any vendor has ever put anything dangerous in any ejuice. On the other, we seem to see a consistent pattern of alarmist claims disguising opinion as evidence and using what appears to be the well-known ANTZspeak "we just don't know what's in the bottle."

Hmm... I'm tempted to make reference to Cass Sunstein's essay on "the problem of free speech".

 

[cstone1991]

I wouldn't knowingly buy juice that was made in someone's home if it wasn't someone I know and trust, but I am currently researching to begin DIYing for myself and I would not be opposed to providing some of my vaping buddies with my homemade juice if they are interested once I get some experience. The difference is that I know the conditions in my own kitchen and so do my friends, I don't know the conditions of Joe Shopowner's kitchen. For all I know he bleached some previously used bottles to sterilize them and cut the juice with rubbing alcohol since he heard some people use alcohol in some of their mixes. As far as germs go, I'm not too worried. I also don't buy antibacterial soap for regular hand washing or use hand sanitizer. I don't mind letting my immune system do it's job.

As far as regulations go, I am a firm believer that this industry needs some. I would like that regulation to come from within the community rather than without though, but anyone who has even a sliver of hope that this industry will continue to exist without the government putting their grubby fingers into the regulating is a fool. Our best hope is that the government will adopt a set of rules created by vapers and not by BT and/or BP. The type of regulations I would like to see would prohibit dangerous chemicals from e-liquid and a list of approved materials for vaporizing devices (including atomizers and batteries/tubes). Child proof and tamper proof juice containers would also be a very reasonable and smart regulation. I would not be opposed to requiring a list of ingredients on juice bottles either, similar to what food has. I don't ever expect vaping to be without any risks just as I don't expect to be able to consume alcohol without any risks, but I would like to see some of those potential risks reduced as they have with alcohol although maybe to a lesser degree.

 

[Anjaffm]

Interesting discussion. On the one hand there is no evidence any vendor has ever put anything dangerous in any ejuice. On the other, we seem to see a consistent pattern of alarmist claims disguising opinion as evidence and using what appears to be the well-known ANTZspeak "we just don't know what's in the bottle."

precisely.

 

[jpargana]

...and the reasonable people saying, "this time when we come up with reasonable regulations, ANTZ is forbidden from partaking in the process. Sorry FDA, this means you. For you allowed your zealotry to be put before the science and so little Johnny was compelled to get a mod from the black market that wouldn't have existed if there wasn't a rush to regulate in the first place. Cause we all remember back in the Golden Era of vaping, way before those idiotic regulations, that there were no cases of exploding batteries except by those individuals that modified their own. So, I guess humanity needed to have little Johnny experience this horrible tragedy because some people were so hell bent on suggesting that there should be regulations, without realizing that in the Golden Era, things were pretty darn safe, as clearly the historical record indicates."

This !!!

Instead of going for adequate regulations, authorities are trying to "ban by regulation" our devices - because they are "not regulated".

So, who will regulate the shady character selling mods and liquid in his minivan near the nighclub?

Can he be accountable for bad hardware and liquid?

How will overly-zealous regulation become BETTER than what we already have today ??

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

When did vaping become the mantra of quitting smoking?? .

It was the ex-smokers that pioneered vaping, so to answer your question:
From the beginning.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I still have access to tobacco, alcohol, guns, food, medicine, the list goes on. All those are regulated for health and safety, that's common sense, and nobody has come knocking to take those things away even though there's proposals to do so all the time. But it never happens. There's proposals to make tobacco illegal, so what, it never gets anywhere. Extremist are everywhere.

Still don't know where you keep coming up with the idea that "somebody" is coming to take away your stuff.
However you might want to lock your doors if it makes you feel safer......

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

On their website:

AEMSA 2014 membership dues structure

Application fee: $500 due at acceptance of application (nonrefundable)
Monthly Dues: $758
$1500 per initial scheduled inspection

Yes quite expensive for a mom&pop shop. I guess that IS a valid reason for some.

If you think that's alot just wait until mom & pop find out what it will cost just to submit for FDA approval.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

And that person will more than likely get sued. How would regulations have prevented the case you just presented?

Just wait until lawyers realize that when they're not chasing ambulances, asbestos,and every other drug maker on the market they can fill up their time taking cases of people that bought "bad eliquid".

Hope mom & pop have a defense fund.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I feel like I'm being labeled extremist in this thread (perhaps not), but to be as abundantly clear as I can, I desire some regulations. But stronger than that desire is arguing against this notion that the industry 'should be' regulated. Honestly, if it were almost any other industry, I'd be more inclined to seek required regulations, but it is precisely because ANTZ are in the game and have such amazing influence that it strikes me as recipe for disaster for vapers to be arguing for regulations with the word 'should' in there. .

Not only that but the argument over whether there will be regulations was over in 2009.
Unless the Tobacco Act is rescinded or amended regulation IS The Law.
How that regulation presents is the only debate we have now and the FDA has clearly stated the starting point of that debate.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

Question: Will regulations protect you from harm or danger? Yes or no.

Yes.
But they won't prevent either harm or danger.

 

[Tangaroav]

Did Suicide bunny take any action yet on the reported acetyl propionyl that is way higher than safety limits, on their e-liquids ?

 

[exnihilo]

Probably the most important post in this entire thread, and this goes out to all of you: your mom.

Thank you.

Tapa-shutup

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

Seems to me that there is PLENTY of info about how to be safe with mods and batteries, all that's necessary is to READ IT AND PAY HEED, but as someone in another thread pointed out today, it's impossible to protect the stupid from themselves, but that's pretty much exactly what the FDA wants to do, and oh yeah, they want to protect the non-stupid from themselves too, even though the non-stupid aren't the ones who explode their mods and batteries.

Andria I agree with what you say to a point.
I think we need to be careful throwing around the term "stupid".

Not everybody who vapes becomes as passionate about it as a hobby as we do. (And we obviously do because we are spending our free time on ECF.)
Not everybody pursues vaping as "hobby"
They don't want to read about it.
They don't want to watch videos about it.

They just want to quit smoking and heard this might help them.
They didn't need to know Ohms Law to smoke a cigarette

They don't know what they don't know.

When I started vaping just a year ago there were dozens of options and few vape shops. Now there are literally 10's of thousands all fighting for vapor's money.

But to your point, If I buy a chainsaw and cut my leg off...my bad.

 

[skoony]

No offense, but even the small vendors make big profits. Open a website easy to do, import cheap nic, pg, vg, and stir. A local shop showed his cost on a bottle of China made liquid a very popular brand and his cost for a 10ml bottle is about .75 which he sells for $3 to $5 each.

and that my friend is what all this is really about.
not taking batteries,tanks,atty's and maintenance costs into account,
i figure its costing me roughly 0.33 cents per equivalent pack of analogs.(average 8.00 per pack in MN.)

Cha Ching,"Do you hear that sound Mr. Anderson?"

 

[skoony]

Nope, its legal and is being sold openly many places that's the problem. No regulations means anyone can put any substance in the bottle and call it e liquid as long as it does not contain an illegal substance.

most states have laws making this type of activity illegal.
the trouble is its called this one week,another the next.
its funny how the buyers seem to know whats what unless the stores
know exactly what they are selling.
its like playing whack a mole for the authorities.
here in MN they are or are preparing to hold stores that sell these types of
things more responsible.

 

[skoony]

I have seen no enforcement of the eliquids, a lot don't even know it exists in that form yet.



I understand what your saying but its more complicated then yes or no. Regulations will promote protections however nothing is harm or danger free.

some stuff that is sold as bath stuff is now being packaged as e-stuff.