Are you done stocking up?

[Rossum]

Quick update on the Asmodus battery analyzer. Don't know how accurate it is but it's looking good on consistency. I ran the capacity test on four almost new batteries. Each battery scored within a 10mah range three times. Ex, one battery scored 2685, 2678, and 2679. All four batteries had probably been used 2 or 3 times. The total range for all four was around 35.

That's for 3000mah HG2's. Run with cutoff of 3.0V and discharge rate of 2A.

Now I'm going to try it with older batteries.

Battery capacity is almost universally spec'd at a 0.2C discharge rate, so 500 mA for a 2500 mAh battery, or 600 mA for a 3000 mAh battery. Manufacturers usually use 2.5V as the cut-off, but the curve below 3.0V is very steep, and I've found using 2.8V as the cut-off gets me within a few percent of rated capacity on new cells. Here's an example comparing two used (for one year) 30Qs with two unused ones from the same batch:

 

[Rossum]

The rules as they stand today. It's the death by a thousand cuts. One day it will be illegal to vape.

Then I will be a criminal.

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

 

[englishmick]

Here's a kind of interesting (and even comic) read about cotinine testing from Quest Diagnostics.
The facts about cotinine - what life insurers need to know

I don't think that an insurer is going to deem you as a non-tobacco user if you are using a smoking cessation product to quit tobacco. You are still a tobacco user to them if you're using nicotine in any form. They veiw nicotine as unsafe, not just tobacco use itself. They can;t detect if the continie in your urine is coming from smoking or chewing or a nic patch. For all they know, you are addicted to nic patches or gum or whatnot. That's unhealthy in their eyes.

The last time I had work based insurance they had a clause allowing you to use patches and so forth. But to take advantage of that you had to participate in an approved quitting process, see a quitting therapist and be on a program. And there was a time limit.

 

[englishmick]

Battery capacity is almost universally spec'd at a 0.2C discharge rate, so 500 mA for a 2500 mAh battery, or 600 mA for a 3000 mAh battery. Manufacturers usually use 2.5V as the cut-off, but the curve below 3.0V is very steep, and I've found using 2.8V as the cut-off gets me within a few percent of rated capacity on new cells. Here's an example comparing two used (for one year) 30Qs with two unused ones from the same batch:

So the standard is to discharge at 600mA for a 3000 battery. I didn't know that so I was discharging at 2A. I'll run one today at 600mA and see how much that changes the final capacity result. I felt uncomfortable letting the voltage get below 3.0 so that's where I stopped.

I noticed when I was testing that the voltage went down really fast from 4.2 to 4.0 with very little capacity drop recorded. It was starting to speed up a little as it got close to 3.0. Exactly what your graph shows.

From the point of view of deciding whether a battery is ready to be recycled I'm thinking the numbers don't matter as much as how far the capacity has dropped. My new HG2's showed capacity of around 2700. 3 year old HG2's came in at less than 1000. From some other batteries it looked like the drop in capacity really speeded up in the third year.

What is the significance of internal resistance?

 

[Rossum]

My new HG2's showed capacity of around 2700. 3 year old HG2's came in at less than 1000. From some other batteries it looked like the drop in capacity really speeded up in the third year.

The HG2s I had in service did not hold up very well. Here's a graph comparing two that I had in use for two years with two from the same batch that were unused:

What's curious is that I re-tested them after they sat around for another year and they actually recovered some of that capacity -- go figure.

What is the significance of internal resistance?

Well, it determines how much voltage sag and loss there is inside the battery itself, and how much self-heating the battery is subject to under hard loads. If you're a tootle-puffer like me who is using his batteries at a fraction of their CDR, then the increased IR as they "wear" probably isn't that significant; capacity loss will probably be apparent before the increase in IR is noticeable. But if you're the type of vaper who pushes his batteries hard, you might notice that they get hotter with use as they age. If run on a mech, they won't hit as hard.

FWIW, I've yet to come up with a way of measuring DC IR that I trust, and there is no standardized way of doing it that would allow me to compare my figures with either Mooch's or those from some of the chargers that claim to measure it. So I only measure AC IR at 1 kHz, which is an industry standard, can be done with a reasonably priced dedicated meter.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I knew that I was not ready, but there is little one can do on a fixed income. It's not like I can run out and buy $5,000 worth of goods, it takes time.

I have quite a few supplies but my stash of vape mods is very low. I only have 2 remaining after a Wismec Tinker 2 quit on me the other day. It was rated as IP67 and shockproof but started malfunctioning the other day.

What I am going to do is to save $500, and for every $500 that I save, I will find a vape shop that will order for me more IP67/shockproof mods, and I'll order them in bulk until I have 100 mods or so.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I knew that I was not ready, but there is little one can do on a fixed income. It's not like I can run out and buy $5,000 worth of goods, it takes time.

I have quite a few supplies but my stash of vape mods is very low. I only have 2 remaining after a Wismec Tinker 2 quit on me the other day. It was rated as IP67 and shockproof but started malfunctioning the other day.

What I am going to do is to save $500, and for every $500 that I save, I will find a vape shop that will order for me more IP67/shockproof mods, and I'll order them in bulk until I have 100 mods or so.

What wattage do you vape at? What resistance?

 

[Tommy-Chi]

What wattage do you vape at? What resistance?

75W, .13Ohms

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

75W, .13Ohms

So could you make due with a Single 21700 mod instead of a dual battery mod?

 

[Tommy-Chi]

So could you make due with a Single 21700 mod instead of a dual battery mod?

Thanks for the info!

Options are always good. I'll be buying whatever I can over the next 6 months to make sure this never happens again.

 

[Territoo]

So could you make due with a Single 21700 mod instead of a dual battery mod?

That's a good question as it's similar to what I vape. I've never tried it, but if push came to shove a single 21700 would beat a single 18650 mod handsdown, but a dual 18650?? I dont have a 21700 mod to try it out on.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

That's a good question as it's similar to what I vape. I've never tried it, but if push came to shove a single 21700 would beat a single 18650 mod handsdown, but a dual 18650?? I dont have a 21700 mod to try it out on.

Reason I asked is because I'm not sure there are many shockproof dual battery mods out there, so it's good to keep single 21700 mods in mind if you vape below 100W. And yes, at 75W you will have to change batteries more frequently in a single 21700 than you do in a dual 18650 mod.

 

[juskiddin]

Hey everyone, I haven’t been on ECF for a couple of years and used to follow the Tootlepuffers. Can anyone guide me to a forum re: DIY supplies in Canada? I know I’m stabbing in the dark. I’d be very appreciative.

cheers and thank you in advance!

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

And I hate to bring it up in yet another thread because there isn't enough info to say what's really going on, but this is a good thread to bring it up in.

There was a post in 2 other threads yesterday that a couple of vape shops had their credit card processing yanked. This isn't necessarily something to worry about just yet because no details were given and it could be much ado about nothing. Processing accounts can be pulled for a variety of reasons. However, if credit card processors are going to start refusing to do business with vape shops, we are essentially looking at a vape ban without any legislation being used to usher it in (which is what I suspected would happen someday). I doubt any vape shop can survive in this society by accepting only cash and crypto currency.

Also stated was that an LTL carrier is refusing to transport vape gear (but this isn't necessarily a huge deal either since there area bajillion LTL carriers out there).

Also stated was that insurance companies are dropping business insurance policies for vape shops. But again, this may not be widespread and not enough info given to really make any conclusions.

But none of this would surprise me if it becomes standard practice soon among these industries.

A vape ban was always the goal in the USA IMHO. They know they can't do it through the courts, not easily anyhow, so they do it by influencing service providers to jump on the "hate vape" bandwagon and starve vape businesses of essential services. That's how governments ban things without banning them outright with laws.

I really believe that the goal with vape is to ban it as it exists, then bring it back in the hands of only a few elite-owned, mega corps and possibly as a cessation device rather than a tobacco product. We can say all day long that it was tried and failed in the courts before, but money corrupts even the law - court decisions can be reversed using threats and dollars.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Hey everyone, I haven’t been on ECF for a couple of years and used to follow the Tootlepuffers. Can anyone guide me to a forum re: DIY supplies in Canada? I know I’m stabbing in the dark. I’d be very appreciative.

cheers and thank you in advance!

I can't help but you may want to consider starting a new thread asking for CA sources in the DIY section. You'll likely get more eyes and more leads.

 

[CMD-Ky]

For the definition of tobacco use or for smoking it is best to read your policy definitions. Policies may and do differ within the same insurer and there is only one sure way to know how you policy defines any term. You have to read your policy. Relying on internet savants for comments on your policy is not your wisest move.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Agreed but the question was is it a tobacco product.

Reading your policy is the only way to know for certain. The no answer that anyone can give without a reading of your policy definitions. Dull but it is the only way for you to know.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

...

They know they can't do it through the courts, not easily anyhow, so they do it by influencing service providers to jump on the "hate vape" bandwagon and starve vape businesses of essential services. That's how governments ban things without banning them outright with laws.

...

The powers that be use this tactic in several areas, firearms and social media. They have gone after Gab and other sites.

They debank, deplatform, and try to destroy anyone who they do not want in business.

 

[GaryInTexas]

And I hate to bring it up in yet another thread because there isn't enough info to say what's really going on, but this is a good thread to bring it up in.

There was a post in 2 other threads yesterday that a couple of vape shops had their credit card processing yanked. This isn't necessarily something to worry about just yet because no details were given and it could be much ado about nothing. Processing accounts can be pulled for a variety of reasons. However, if credit card processors are going to start refusing to do business with vape shops, we are essentially looking at a vape ban without any legislation being used to usher it in (which is what I suspected would happen someday). I doubt any vape shop can survive in this society by accepting only cash and crypto currency.

Also stated was that an LTL carrier is refusing to transport vape gear (but this isn't necessarily a huge deal either since there area bajillion LTL carriers out there).

Also stated was that insurance companies are dropping business insurance policies for vape shops. But again, this may not be widespread and not enough info given to really make any conclusions.

But none of this would surprise me if it becomes standard practice soon among these industries.

A vape ban was always the goal in the USA IMHO. They know they can't do it through the courts, not easily anyhow, so they do it by influencing service providers to jump on the "hate vape" bandwagon and starve vape businesses of essential services. That's how governments ban things without banning them outright with laws.

I really believe that the goal with vape is to ban it as it exists, then bring it back in the hands of only a few elite-owned, mega corps and possibly as a cessation device rather than a tobacco product. We can say all day long that it was tried and failed in the courts before, but money corrupts even the law - court decisions can be reversed using threats and dollars.

It appears to me to be a collusion effort to bring the final hailstorm of life snuffing damage to the industry and eliminate any more crazy thoughts of freedom for the people. They have regained their complete control of personal choice and won't relinquish it again.
Well except for me as I'll just sit under this overpass with my boxes of goodies and vape on.

 

[englishmick]

If you're a tootle-puffer like me who is using his batteries at a fraction of their CDR, then the increased IR as they "wear" probably isn't that significant; capacity loss will probably be apparent before the increase in IR is noticeable.

I use 10 to 12 watts and that's what I'm seeing. Capacity goes down at an increasing rate over time and the battery becomes pretty worthless after 3 years. Since I normally take a battery out for recharging around 3.6V I'm only getting about 500mah per charge at 3 years. With not much change in IR.

Despite any deficiencies and doubts about exactly what it's measuring I think the Asmodus tester gives me what I wanted, which is a way of deciding when to retire batteries. With a dozen setups going, using some of them a lot and some occasionally, I never know how long a battery has been in a mod when I take it out.

Based on this I think I'll start retiring the HG2's after 2 years instead of three. They don't cost enough to worry about it. And I might try something other than HG2's. See if they age better. And maybe stick some in the fridge in case they start messing with our batteries.