It's just a shame what has happened to our government in the last 30 years. There were kids put in prison for life over a MJ cig. The war on drugs has been a disaster. Now ir's legal in several states. If you continue to let the MSM lead your every day news you are screwed. They could care less about you and cover your masters. Sheeple wake up. Look at the figures on the war on poverty who has benefited? Your gov't is broke and it will just a matter of time before you are. Big P and big T will be a joke in the long run, I really don't understand why people don;t see what's happening. Stores are closing , small business can't make it anymore but now we want to shut down a new industry that may save lives with ridiculous regs. If you aren't paying attention you are an idiot.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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So sad, but so true. Journalists used to have integrity, now they can barely write a coherent sentence, and without misspelling anything.
Anyone see the irony in soon needing to disguise our ecig's to look like an [Other Stuff] pipe?
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Just who do you think you're talking to? "Preaching to the choir" doesn't even work. Most people posting here have had been awake for quite a long time. I don't recall seeing you in the general media or legislation or regulation forums. Perhaps I missed some posts there but most here haven't missed a thread. We've been 'paying attention' for years now.
Agreed. Most of us here are on the same page.
Almost all ex smokers, who were treated like dirt for years. Finally finding
something to get us off of the tobacco, only now to be slapped on the hand
and have it taken away, and be treated like trash again.
Government and it's over reach have been going over the line for many, many years.
In Ohio.... no need to disguise.... well kinda lol... it's mandated....
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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No. Just that your post (while I understand your frustration) was misdirected when you imply that there are 'sheeple' here or that we are uninformed. Neither is true.
Another pro-vape Senator endorses Trump - Senator Burr - hero, imo, of the Senate HELP hearing...
NC’s US senators Thom Tillis, Richard Burr call on Republicans to unite behind Trump
NC’s US senators Thom Tillis, Richard Burr call on Republicans to unite behind Trump
I learned a hard lesson with sweeping regulation during the financial meltdown. I was a partner in a mortgage banker/broker company from 1999 through 2010. We played by the rules and had a spotless history. The Dodd-Frank bill shut us down along with 90% of our peers. It was awful. The worst part for me wasn't losing the business. It was calling the staff into the room and telling them we were closing. Saddest day of my professional career.
The regulations seemed ominous in 2008 but we figured everything would work out. As they phased in over the next 2 years reality started setting in. Profitibility was out the window. Big banks won. They reclaimed the market share they were losing to the little guys.
It's not apples to apples with what is happening to the vape industry because the crisis was real and happening. Regulations were fast and furious across the entire financial sector. Banks won by default and not by design. But there are similarities and I fear the vape shop owners are doing exactly what I did. False sense of security because we were in business for a good while and it seems unthinkable that a swipe of a pen can shut it all down "just like that". Well...it happens just like that. Trust me.
The similarities are a little scary even though the circumstances are different. During the phase in process, business was still manageable but profits took a hit and doing business became more difficult. Then our available product line got squashed (mortgage business went from 31 flavors to just chocolate, vanilla, and a little bit of strawberry). With drastically less products available our margins shrank more and competition was fierce.
We had to close our credit line at our bank so we couldn't fund our own loans anymore and had to broker exclusively. We closed the line because strict Fed regulations about net worth requirements (among other things). Requirements that no small business could ever meet. So we were stuck only being able to sell other people's products for a measly commissions. My company along with thousands of others were gone in a blink. Big banks grabbed it all back and controlled the market again after steadily losing market share for a decade.
This FDA thing seems awful similar and complacent vape shop owners are in for it. There may be nothing they can do either way. The profit center is in juice by a wide margin. If juice consolidates to just a few manufacturers then all you can do is resell. If Walmart or any big box resells then you are done.
The regulations seemed ominous in 2008 but we figured everything would work out. As they phased in over the next 2 years reality started setting in. Profitibility was out the window. Big banks won. They reclaimed the market share they were losing to the little guys.
It's not apples to apples with what is happening to the vape industry because the crisis was real and happening. Regulations were fast and furious across the entire financial sector. Banks won by default and not by design. But there are similarities and I fear the vape shop owners are doing exactly what I did. False sense of security because we were in business for a good while and it seems unthinkable that a swipe of a pen can shut it all down "just like that". Well...it happens just like that. Trust me.
The similarities are a little scary even though the circumstances are different. During the phase in process, business was still manageable but profits took a hit and doing business became more difficult. Then our available product line got squashed (mortgage business went from 31 flavors to just chocolate, vanilla, and a little bit of strawberry). With drastically less products available our margins shrank more and competition was fierce.
We had to close our credit line at our bank so we couldn't fund our own loans anymore and had to broker exclusively. We closed the line because strict Fed regulations about net worth requirements (among other things). Requirements that no small business could ever meet. So we were stuck only being able to sell other people's products for a measly commissions. My company along with thousands of others were gone in a blink. Big banks grabbed it all back and controlled the market again after steadily losing market share for a decade.
This FDA thing seems awful similar and complacent vape shop owners are in for it. There may be nothing they can do either way. The profit center is in juice by a wide margin. If juice consolidates to just a few manufacturers then all you can do is resell. If Walmart or any big box resells then you are done.
OK, so the Constitution, the supreme law of our nation, states that any rights not granted to the federal government are reserved for the states and/or the people.
Florida Statute 877.112 expressly forbids the sale of "nicotine dispensing devices" to minors (defined by Florida law as persons under the age of 18 years).
I would expect most, if not all states, have a similar law on their books, therefore making the FDA deeming regulations 1) redundant, and 2) unconstitutional.
I mean, if its all about savin' the chillens...? Oh yeah, right, it isn't.
BUT, am I missing something here? Wouldn't these be grounds for some sort of legal argument? IANAL, but I do sometimes stay at Holiday Inn Express. Thoughts, opinions?
Florida Statute 877.112 expressly forbids the sale of "nicotine dispensing devices" to minors (defined by Florida law as persons under the age of 18 years).
I would expect most, if not all states, have a similar law on their books, therefore making the FDA deeming regulations 1) redundant, and 2) unconstitutional.
I mean, if its all about savin' the chillens...? Oh yeah, right, it isn't.
BUT, am I missing something here? Wouldn't these be grounds for some sort of legal argument? IANAL, but I do sometimes stay at Holiday Inn Express. Thoughts, opinions?
yep pretty much what I see happening to the vape industry.
The FDA wants it that way. Easier to regulate and monitor a few companies than many different companies.
The FDA rules overrule the state rules on the age restrictions and such. The state can have a higher age restriction but not a lower one. That is the reality of it.
Yes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was posting about. I was simply correcting what you stated in the quote below. That's it.
Yes, we're sure. It's 2 years to submit, then 1 year to deny your application while bleeding you dry.
With everything to FDA is asking for, I don't even know if it's possible to create a proper submission in 90 days.
As a mortgage banker you were forced (by regulation - CRA) to make loans you wouldn't have done in a free market and to people who in many cases didn't make the first premium/payment.
With vape shops, they are forced to not sell to people who want and can afford their products.
But as you say, similar outcomes.
What about BT buying them out? BT can't be deaf to the criticism of cigalikes, so it might be in their interest to market at least one AVP.
On the other hand, in one of the hundreds of articles I've read in the last few days (which, of course, I can't find now), there was a conjecture that since ecigs, compared to cigarettes, are such a small part of BT sales, they might not be motivated to bring any ecigs to market, especially if the FDA successfully wipes out the competition.
This is a little O/T and preaching to the choir, but if someone feels the need for a break from the thread it is worth watching. I believe Oliver is in one of the episodes.
I don't see what differentiation you're making. But at this point, I'll just drop out of the conversation - seems others understand what I meant.
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