I think I mentioned this before. Have a lifelong buddy who had quad bypass a few years ago. He smoked since he was a young teen and quit in favor of vaping just a year prior to his bypass. He blamed vaping. Forget about the 43 years he smoked and drank. It happened after he switched to vaping so it had to be that.
)... Can anyone tell me why on Earth I am supposedly supposed to be FOR an Agency State?? Cause for-the-love-of-GOD, all I've been doing my entire life is fighting AGAINST constant BS, lies, endless corruption, and propaganda (up to and including gag-orders, free-speech rules, and eviction-threatening) brought about BECAUSE of this very Agency State nonsense? (Albeit obviously, I started with fighting a Different Agency about a Different Substance, initially.) 
)
And I make NO apologies for my part in derailing.
Well, threads can get pretty dry if they're all work and no play. And I'll ALWAYS step in to confront all the damage that governmental Agencies have wreaked upon people with all their misinformation.
Speaking of which, I hope someone knows about that Supereme Court case that was brought up.
I still can't understand why that's not a more prominent discussion in this thread.
(@MacTechVpr please help fill us in!
What rationale? That the VA should spend its resources looking for reasons to exclude our veterans of service by interpretation? When neither they nor the courts seems to know what unqualified relevancy means.
I could spend a few days here.
Jefferson was right, "It is a very dangerous doctrine to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions. It is one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy."
And that is exactly what Kisor does or worse if they defer their own substantial dominance over our laws to unelected bureaucrats…
Kisor v. Wilkie
My position's been clear on this quagmire…extract vaping from tobacco legislation. Only way to be sure as if the above is not enough proof. Maybe then we may be allowed our own industry and choices.
Good luck.
What rationale? That the VA should spend its resources looking for reasons to exclude our veterans of service by interpretation? When neither they nor the courts seems to know what unqualified relevancy means.
I could spend a few days here.
Jefferson was right, "It is a very dangerous doctrine to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions. It is one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy."
And that is exactly what the circle jerk in Kisor does or worse if they defer their own substantial dominance over our laws to unelected bureaucrats…
Symposium: A small win for James Kisor; a big loss for the Constitution
My position's been clear on this quagmire…extract vaping from tobacco legislation. Only way to be sure as if the above were not enough proof. Maybe then we may be allowed our own industry and choices.
Good luck.
couple people already getting a really started.it's the vaping legend network they have lots of people backing them.they're getting the perments started now so let's see if it works.I really don't see it doing anything.at lest we can all meet up with the people we talk to in all these forums if enough of us show up but #1 I don't see people showing up in large number vapers tend to be lazy or maybe not lazy they just hope the next man does the .....ing for them #2 it's to late nothing can change this.....it's a rapAre You just coming to this Conclusion?
Although, for the General Vaping Community/Market, I couldn't Agree more with what you say. But your Post is Misplaced. Because the People in this Thread, for the Most Part, are the Letter Writers. And supporters, for the Most Part, of Advocacy Groups. And the one's, for the Most Part, who would attend a "Rally". If there was one.
There was a Member here a Long Time Ago...
... and when Deeming was still in the FDA Public Comment phase took it on himself to go to Local Vape Shops in His area in Hopes of Drumming up Support thru Retailers. He was meet with just about Zero Support. I think it Really Shocked Him.
I also contacted the Owners of 3 Vape Shops that I know. And asked if They could hand out Flyers to their Walk-In Customers explaining what the FDA was purposing. And to send a Link to the Information to their Customer via e-Mail. I offered to Print the Flyers for them. Or to make Posters that they could put in their shop using an HP 350c I have. I was Met with the Exact same thing. Zero Support.
When I challenged them on it I was told, in various forms, that they Didn't want to Scare their Customers. And to get them Thinking about how DIY could make them Self-Sufficient. Because the sale of e-Liquids was what reaped the Profits. And if people started doing DIY, the Businesses would go Belly Up. There's No Profit in selling Hardware.
I also got involved with some people who Tried to Leverage campaign contributions to include Positive and or Reasonable Support for Pending/Future e-Cigarette policies. We had a Few Gains. But they were Dwarfed by the Money that was going into Anti-Vaping Campaigns.
Here's the Thing. If you want to do anything at the Grass Roots level, you need to Contact a Lot of People. A LOT of People. Because in a Best Case Scenario, you might get 1 out of 10 people to do more than just agree that things are Not Right. And to get someone to get off their Couch on a Saturday and stand in a Crowd holding a Pro-Vaping sign, you are probably talking 1 of 50. So to get 100 people in the Streets, well... you can do the Math.
Without the Support of Retailers and OEMs, who can Reach Hundreds of Thousands of People in 1 e-Mail, there is a Limit to just what Individuals can do in a Thread like this.
It Isn't that they Don't want to Do Anything, they Do. They just Don't have vehicle to do it with.
The VAST MAJORITY of Vapers Don't frequent the ECF. Or any other Forum where Advocacy might (or Might Not) even be Mentioned.
So yeah... It's all Kinda going to Hell in a Hand Basket. But that Doesn't mean that there are Not those who Care. Or have Tried to Play a Part, albeit a small one, in it Not Happening.
I don't think vapers are any lazier than anyone else. Most people don't rouse themselves to activity beyond grumbling.
