Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[mightymen]

LMAO!! The guy who took Big Gulps away from us. vaping doesn't stand a chance!!

As a citizen of NYC I hate the guy but I got to admit he was the best Mayor we ever had. Up until the BIG GULP but who knows maybe he was right and I was wrong.

 

[mightymen]

Morning. Hope this information is a little more helpful per the theme of the thread.

POTUS says he’s going to meet with vaping industry.

I love this guy. Finally someone who sounds like he is willing to considering what the vaping community and medical people have to say at the SAME TIME. Its not hard to understand THC kills vaping prolongs life. Apples and oranges.

 

[stols001]

Oh if a package gets opened, THEY WANT you to know, my single one was all wrapped up in yellow tape like a crime scene.

IDK @Eskie, I don't doubt the truth of what you are saying, but states DO open packages? Or maybe at least flag some. I know because a friend of mine received a mystery package form a (former now) friend of his I guess. He was not expecting a package but when he opened it, it was like this care package full of (unsolicited) drugs his former friend had sent. The police busted through the door immediately and he got all kinds of charges and like, stuff and community service and a record etc. He was not best pleased. Maybe they just had the dogs sniff it?

WHO KNOWS. I am SO glad no one ever loved me enough to get sent a care package like that. IDK coulda been ATF and they opened it at customs, no wait! it was state to state is my point. Yeah.

Anna

 

[mikepetro]

Interesting. I googled. Huge topic.

BTW, here's a company that imports it for you (probably several, but this video was cool):

I import it myself for a fraction of the price of these places. I deal straight with the tea markets in Kunming.

 

[Eskie]

Oh if a package gets opened, THEY WANT you to know, my single one was all wrapped up in yellow tape like a crime scene.

IDK @Eskie, I don't doubt the truth of what you are saying, but states DO open packages? Or maybe at least flag some. I know because a friend of mine received a mystery package form a (former now) friend of his I guess. He was not expecting a package but when he opened it, it was like this care package full of (unsolicited) drugs his former friend had sent. The police busted through the door immediately and he got all kinds of charges and like, stuff and community service and a record etc. He was not best pleased. Maybe they just had the dogs sniff it?

WHO KNOWS. I am SO glad no one ever loved me enough to get sent a care package like that. IDK coulda been ATF and they opened it at customs, no wait! it was state to state is my point. Yeah.

Anna

It would have had to be flagged within the postal system. There is a US postal inspector office responsible for mail fraud investigations and all that stuff. If it was flagged in the system, the postal inspector would be the first to get involved. At that point they likely decided to hand it off to local law enforcement to deal with. But using the US mail to send illegal drugs is mail fraud, and is a federal crime. If identified it will be handled however their procedures are, with referral to federal or local law enforcement with or without the direct involvement of the postal inspector (a federal law officer). A postal worker accepting a package for mailing that they deem suspicious may certainly get their own law enforcement people involved.

It's also possible your friend was set up with an unsolicited delivery of illegal substances by their former friend who notified authorities as to the package's content and existence. Sort of like SWATing someone to cause mayhem and headaches. Kinda nasty if that's what happened.

Unless vaping becomes illegal for USPS delivery, there's nothing a state can do to intercept your packages or mail without a warrant. And getting warrants on every freaking package entering a state to check if there's a mod or Unicorn Milk being delivered is obviously not possible as every case/package would require appearing before a judge with evidence of probable cause that it should be ordered by the court. Things may be crazy, but they're not that crazy.

If Congress enacts a ban on vape related products through the US mail, then of course it's a different story, but I would then see enforcement occurring on the level of the sender of the mail/package, not the recipient, as the sender is responsible for trying to enter a prohibited product into the postal system.

 

[stols001]

Yeah, I don't think the dude who sent it got any consequences? He was just dopy. Maybe he used a fake name or something.. IDK. This was a long time ago. I don't think it was deliberate, the guy felt awful, apparently. He was just.... like that.

I see your point. However, vape shops have to maintain records of sales, including to where, so like private sort of vape sending would be fine, but I guess vape shops could get audited for who they send to, right?

I now know much more about the postal service than I did.

Anna

 

[Pigs]

It's an extremely complex issue. It's much more than a Trump or bipartisan political thing. There are a lot of hands in the pie with this issue.

The vaping community wants reasonable regulation to ensure its safe and to allow for innovation of future technology. They see vaping purely as "harm reduction" that is 95% safer than smoking and twice as effective to stop smoking as pharmaceutical nicotine gum or patches. Flavors are considered essential to vapers because it differentiates vaping from smoking. Forcing a smoker / want-to-be vaper to vape a tobacco flavor is like asking an alcoholic to come to an AA meeting in a bar.

The vaping industry was created by adult consumers for adult consumers. Vape shops have always used photo ID age verification.

The anti-smoking and anti-vaping community hate vaping because it "looks like smoking". They have an unreasonable fear of nicotine and fear that youth who vape are setting themselves up for a generation of lifelong addiction.

Big Tobacco and Big Pharma have huge stakes into the future of vaping, as it has an indirect effect on their future profits.

Juul, Vuse, Blu (Big Tobacco) marketed to the youth and ensured their products were available to youth who had access to businesses with poor age verification processes. Yet the entire vaping industry is blamed for these bad actors when youth abuse their products.

Big Pharma sponsors "bad science" studies that cherry pick any negativity they can find about vaping and suggest click-bait headlines for news and social media stories.

Politicians have multiple reasons to negatively effect vaping. Start out with the tobacco Master Settlement Agreement. The more money Big Tobacco makes, the more money that the States get; the less money that BT makes, the less money the States get. The sale of tobacco has steadily dropped since vaping became available 10 years ago. Therefore, vaping has had a negative effect on tobacco and government profits and is therefore declared the enemy.

We've seen so-called US medical experts claim that the respected UK Medical Association is a bogus medical community after it declared vaping to be safer than smoking, because that doesn't fit into their narrative. There are actually physicians saying smoking is safer than vaping. "We don't know what chemicals are in e-cigarettes" is being shouted out to the media, yet all of the main ingredients in e-liquid (propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin) has been in use (inhaled) by the medical community for decades. Many so-called experts say vapers haven't really quit smoking, its all bad if its inhaled into the lungs. They have no concept of "harm reduction".

Then there are policy makers trying to regulate a product that they don't understand the science or the social implications of the products. Parents are demanding that the goverment "do something" because their kids are vaping in the school restroom. They mistakenly believe they are vaping because of sweet flavors when in reality they are "Juuling" for the head rush. Thus the intended ban on flavors. Vapers and the industry say flavors are essential and a flavor ban will put most vape shops out of business, force some vapers to return back to smoking, or create a black market for flavored vapes.

I'm an admitted conspiracy theorist, and believe there are those in the FDA and CDC who are in collusion with Big Tobacco and Big Pharma and have covert plans to keep the vape industry down. I see a huge conflict of interest when directors for the CDC and the Surgeon General all own stock in tobacco.

The general public and mass media have little true knowledge of vaping and how it could be the greatest godsend for public health in a century.

Frankly, I'm shocked that vaping is still in existance after the clusterfock of the black market THC crisis and the hysteria caused by the way the media and CDC handled the situation. So much misinformation it was criminal.

Add to these factors that our First Lady has her own campaign to ban vaping. It's her "war on drugs" to "save the kids".

Despite the scientific proof of their relative safety and proven effectiveness of e-cigarettes, the odds have been stacked against us from the beginning.

I just read this. Brilliantly concise summary of the Vaping situation in the USA as it stands. I've just copied your piece and will be emailing it to friends and family. Thank you!

 

[muth]

Nope, but I did once receive a package that the US Customs had opened and there was no doubt about it--tape, stamps, "inspected and cleared," the whole nine yards.

I was a bit confused about the origin of your package--I didn't know that US-based vendors still shipped to MA... I just assumed it was shipped from an overseas warehouse. But if your state's authorities are inspecting vape packages, why don't they confiscate them? Sorry, I don't know what to make of it.

Shhhh! Ikr? @Fidola13 and I started making lists of yes/no vendors who will/won't ship to MA. We've kept it in the PMs because we don't want to throw anyone under the bus in case there are spies among us. I don't know what to make of it either but my lips are sealed. If it all goes south I have a friend in another state who agreed to accept packages for me if the vendor will let me send a package to an address different from what's on my credit card/paypal. If I'm buying a gift for someone, I don't see why not. Why should I have to pay double shipping? That would be my argument, anyway.

 

[muth]

I call the White House daily. I participated in Ohio's Vape Rally when our governor proposed his own flavor ban, and made sure that I was interviewed on TV. I plaster my Face Book page with vape news on a daily basis. I recently joined Twitter...still trying to figure out how it works.

Everyone is free to borrow what I wrote above.

What have YOU all done to save vaping and flavors?

Thank you, Baditude. I've copied this to my files. Let me applaud you, too, because I think you did a fantastic job.

To answer your question, I've written letters and made phone calls to my state's reps and governor. I try to answer all the calls to action as they become available. Another thing I've done is set up my Amazon charity option to support organizations like casaa. Whatever vape organization needs financial support I encourage everyone to add them to their list of donors. It's so easy on Amazon. There are also promoters like iGive where you can sign up a cause and iGive will pop up at participating online stores so your purchases can contribute to whom you want. There will be instructions on iGive.

Lol, I opened a Twitter account years ago but hardly used it. Now that I see all our vape community on there I've been using it much more. You'll get the hang of it

 

[muth]

I would then see enforcement occurring on the level of the sender of the mail/package, not the recipient, as the sender is responsible for trying to enter a prohibited product into the postal system.

Exactly, like when an online smoke shop or wine/liquor store sells to a minor. The FTC gets involved and the vendor is fined or gets a warning. Much like your local packy down the street who sells to a minor. Do it too many times and your business gets shut down and you can lose your license.

 

[muth]

Yeah, I don't think the dude who sent it got any consequences? He was just dopy. Maybe he used a fake name or something.. IDK. This was a long time ago. I don't think it was deliberate, the guy felt awful, apparently. He was just.... like that.

I see your point. However, vape shops have to maintain records of sales, including to where, so like private sort of vape sending would be fine, but I guess vape shops could get audited for who they send to, right?

I now know much more about the postal service than I did.

Anna

LitecigUSA has a statement on their site explaining that they are required to keep state tax records of online sales. They are then required by law to send those records to their customers at the end of the year so they can claim those purchases on their tax returns and pay the state sales tax. However, I don't remember ever receiving any statements. Maybe it has to exceed a certain amount? I wouldn't know.

 

[muth]

Unfortunately I’m still nursing a broken hip and won’t be anywhere but at home but I’ll be there marching with you in spirit!!!

if we both were we could’ve met up somewhere!! I really would’ve enjoy that!!!

sara

Yes, that definitely would've been fun

 

[muth]

States cannot open US mail, which is under federal jurisdiction. Doing so would violate federal law. If MA doesn't want vape gear shipped in, they would need to somehow identify a vendor that did (likely through a sting) and then sue them. They cannot confiscate a piece of US mail at their state border.

But can a Federal postal worker in MA open mail?

 

[muth]

This thread has been so interesting. Kick off soon so see ya'll later.

 

[Eskie]

Shhhh! Ikr? @Fidola13 and I started making lists of yes/no vendors who will/won't ship to MA. We've kept it in the PMs because we don't want to throw anyone under the bus in case there are spies among us. I don't know what to make of it either but my lips are sealed. If it all goes south I have a friend in another state who agreed to accept packages for me if the vendor will let me send a package to an address different from what's on my credit card/paypal. If I'm buying a gift for someone, I don't see why not. Why should I have to pay double shipping? That would be my argument, anyway.

I've asked a few vendors about that, and a bill to/ship to for gifts has been an acceptable way of placing an order. That would of course be vendor specific.

But can a Federal postal worker in MA open mail?

Mail only with a warrant, unless they think your letter contains a bomb or maybe smallpox (in which case it would seem sorta silly for the local postal worker to be opening it up to check in the first place, they have people who should know how to handle that safely).

Packages only to inspect if they thought it contained an item banned by federal postal rules under whatever specific regulations they have about that stuff. And that would be on acceptance of the package for shipping, not after the fact. State law would not be a basis to compel them to open and inspect a package.

Let's face it. The primary delivery system for fentanyl into this country from China is by e packet. If they can't shut that down (and there are far fewer of those packages than say "filters" from FT) at customs, where you would think it should be caught, let alone on delivery after its cleared, it's hard to see vape stuff as a leading threat in the postal universe.

 

[Astron]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...853ece-07ae-11ea-924a-28d87132c7ec_story.html

It appears POTUS has heard the vapers. How will be be able to affect the deeming regs?

 

[Katya]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...853ece-07ae-11ea-924a-28d87132c7ec_story.html

From the article:

Given Trump’s record of zigzags, some officials cautioned the president could reverse course again. Or he might back some ban on flavored e-cigarettes that exempts vape shops. Others said the White House might pursue a different tack altogether by endorsing legislation that would raise the minimum federal age for buying tobacco products to 21 from 18, or take other steps to try to prevent teens from getting access to the products.

and

Anti-tobacco groups aren’t backing down either. “If the federal government doesn’t take strong action, it’s clear now the states will,” said Matthew Myers, president of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. “There’s a crisis that needs to be addressed.”

Nothing has changed, as far as I can see....

It appears POTUS has heard the vapers. How will be be able to affect the deeming regs?

Even if he did, he can't do anything about the Deeming. Only Congress can change that, AFAIK.

 

[Katya]

Shhhh! Ikr? @Fidola13 and I started making lists of yes/no vendors who will/won't ship to MA. We've kept it in the PMs because we don't want to throw anyone under the bus in case there are spies among us.

Right. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.

And speaking of which, PM incoming...

 

[CMD-Ky]

Right. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.

And speaking of which, PM incoming...

Are the PM's really P?

 

[Astron]

From the article:

and


Nothing has changed, as far as I can see....

I’m really cynical regarding this issue...I can imagine him telling Azar to forget it. I can also imagine a BT lobbyist or bought off politician talking to POTUS and changing his mind again. Coin toss.