Sorry, I edited my post above while you were replying. No matter what the POTUS decides to do now, it doesn't really matter all that much. The Deeming Regs are going to hit us hard in May...
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Sorry, I edited my post above while you were replying. No matter what the POTUS decides to do now, it doesn't really matter all that much. The Deeming Regs are going to hit us hard in May...
I will leave speculation about what this means for May to minds that know more about the rules than I. (Including you, most likely
. )The regs are, of course, the true endgame. I wonder what pressure POTUS will be made privy to during the run-up. Vapers came out hard as soon as the talk of a federal flavor ban was made known. How soon in advance should the industry and consumers begin to mobilize? (I ask somewhat rhetorically, but also practically) Six months can go by in the blink of an eye.
Trump can make himself look good to vaping now and blame the FDA later. Possibly. I'm not sure what the powers that be federally can do regarding state's rights and a state's right to ban a SUBSTANCE but in college in PA all "hard liquor" was sold by Federally run stores. They were closed on at LEAST Sundays. I mean, it wasn't really an issue but....
I think states can decide what to do about certain sins, IDK about banning them outright.
I could ask my sis, LOL but she is busy woman.
Anna
I think states can decide what to do about certain sins, IDK about banning them outright.
I could ask my sis, LOL but she is busy woman.
Anna
I will leave speculation about what this means for May to minds that know more about the rules than I. (Including you, most likely
I don't like to speculate. This is what we KNOW:
Judge moves PMTA deadline to May 2020; praises FDA, criticises industry - ECigIntelligence
"Under the revised regime, then, PMTA submissions must be made by 11th May 2020 and products can remain on the market for one year after that date while submissions are processed. The FDA will also have “the ability to exempt New Products from filing requirements for good cause on a case-by-case basis”."
So there. How many PMTAs will be actually submitted and by whom? The costs are astronomical. The FDA can start rejecting PMTAs right away, in which case we'll have, theoretically, 1 year to fight them and/or stockpile. Or they can take another 10 years to review the applications.
Azar is clueless and won't help us. POTUS can't make any laws, even though he sometimes thinks he can. Only Congress can make laws, and they are not on our side. The FDA? Heck, I don't even know who's in charge now after Gottlieb's departure, let alone what his stance on vaping is.
Hence why you say you don’t see anything changing, at least for now.
I don't like to speculate. This is what we KNOW:
Judge moves PMTA deadline to May 2020; praises FDA, criticises industry - ECigIntelligence
"Under the revised regime, then, PMTA submissions must be made by 11th May 2020 and products can remain on the market for one year after that date while submissions are processed. The FDA will also have “the ability to exempt New Products from filing requirements for good cause on a case-by-case basis”."
So there. How many PMTAs will be actually submitted and by whom? The costs are astronomical. The FDA can start rejecting PMTAs right away, in which case we'll have, theoretically, 1 year to fight them and/or stockpile. Or they can take another 10 years to review the applications.
Azar is clueless and won't help us. POTUS can't make any laws, even though he sometimes thinks he can. Only Congress can make laws, and they are not on our side. The FDA? Heck, I don't even know who's in charge now after Gottlieb's departure, let alone what his stance on vaping is.
Thank you for taking the time to reiterate what I’m sure has been parsed a thousand times over in this thread. It takes a while for me to understand complicated topics but this helps me understand the layout much better, thank you.
This question was asked on another forum. From what I was told the admin can get to the PMs if they wanted to but it's not easy. A lot of hoops to jump through. Idk the technical lingo for it but you practically need to hack it. I suppose nothing is sacred when there are master hackers in the house but geez, we need to communicate important info so we take the chance.
I hope the beagle bit him.
I’ve been saying all along to never wager your money on the first thing Trump says. More often than not he changes his mind. It’s not that he’s different than anyone else in this respect. It’s just that President Transparent has never been afraid to think out loud.
And I’ve always said Deeming was far more damaging than flavor bans. At least this flavor ban business got Trump’s attention. Perhaps there is still a silver lining he will oppose Deeming in the end. And to the extent he can do anything about it. With a House hell bent on opposing everything he wants I’m thinking it would be best if Trump came out in support of Deeming.
If POTUS comes out in support of Deeming the House would surely usher it right through anyway. I understand the premise of reflexive contrarianism but in this instance, I don’t think it would matter a whit.I hope the beagle bit him.
I’ve been saying all along to never wager your money on the first thing Trump says. More often than not he changes his mind. It’s not that he’s different than anyone else in this respect. It’s just that President Transparent has never been afraid to think out loud.
And I’ve always said Deeming was far more damaging than flavor bans. At least this flavor ban business got Trump’s attention. Perhaps there is still a silver lining he will oppose Deeming in the end. And to the extent he can do anything about it. With a House hell bent on opposing everything he wants I’m thinking it would be best if Trump came out in support of Deeming.
ETA, “usher it through,” if that is even something the House has authority over, I truly have no clue.
Well, I was half kidding (and half serious).Interesting take
AhWell, I was half kidding (and half serious).
Usually I can detect humor. Maybe I need to recalibrate.
Oh boy
I don't like to speculate. This is what we KNOW:
Judge moves PMTA deadline to May 2020; praises FDA, criticises industry - ECigIntelligence
"Under the revised regime, then, PMTA submissions must be made by 11th May 2020 and products can remain on the market for one year after that date while submissions are processed. The FDA will also have “the ability to exempt New Products from filing requirements for good cause on a case-by-case basis”."
So there. How many PMTAs will be actually submitted and by whom? The costs are astronomical. The FDA can start rejecting PMTAs right away, in which case we'll have, theoretically, 1 year to fight them and/or stockpile. Or they can take another 10 years to review the applications.
Azar is clueless and won't help us. POTUS can't make any laws, even though he sometimes thinks he can. Only Congress can make laws, and they are not on our side. The FDA? Heck, I don't even know who's in charge now after Gottlieb's departure, let alone what his stance on vaping is.
I read the article.
It is my understanding that's the "ushering through" has already been done. The FDA is in charge of the tobacco products and can do pretty much what they want--from rejecting most of the PMTAs to approving everything based on substantial equivalence to predicate product (if anyone can find one and prove that it's been sold in the U.S. as of Feb. 15, 2007).
Substantial Equivalence
The only thing the Congress could do at this point is to change the grandfather date from Feb. 15, 2007 to some later date. We have tried--a bill was introduced and failed. So now, unless a new bill is introduced, and I don't see who would be willing to write such bill, the ball is completely in FDA's court. They have a lot of discretion, but considering the current political climate, enormous pressure from the anti-tobacco lobby and politicians on both sides of the isle, and FDA's deep ties to BP, it would take a miracle...
I am an admin on a different forum, too. I have no way to access PMs at all. Possibly the site owner or his head minion can, but yes, I bet it's difficult.
During one period, a few posts received one or two hundred 'thumbs down' (That's all we get for ratings) They were able to discover and suspend the perpetrator, but I understand it was difficult and time consuming.
That's by far not the only thing Congress could do. If they were so inclined, they could exempt vapor products from the Tobacco Control Act entirely. Unfortunately, I think the chance of any positive action by Congress is close to nil.
IMO, the best shot we have right now is to try to convince the Administration not to enforce against adult-only vape shops, much like they haven't enforced against post 8/8/2016 products, and like they don't enforce against "dispensaries" in states where MJ is legal.
The main things about PM's are:
1) they're user specific (list of participants)
2) They aren't seen by web crawlers. So google won't archive it. But the site owner owns the data on the server, so there's always a way if they really really want to. Like Rossum sort-of says.
PM's aren't meant to be "secure against the site owner".
1) they're user specific (list of participants)
2) They aren't seen by web crawlers. So google won't archive it. But the site owner owns the data on the server, so there's always a way if they really really want to. Like Rossum sort-of says.
PM's aren't meant to be "secure against the site owner".
Agreed.
Remember, this Forum, and all other forums, store all of their information in a Database. The Database Administrator (usually the owner and his/her delegates) certainly has access to everything on the site.
I think the reality here on ECF is that only a very select few have the ability to see PMs. "Moderators" do not, but Admins certainly do. Yes, if you are on ECF managements radar the DB Admins can get to them, but you have to have done something pretty egregious (at least in their opinion) to get on their radar. I am an admin on another forum and I certainly dont have the time nor the desire to go snooping through PMs, and I sincerely doubt the ECF Admins do either (and they have over 100,000 times the membership of the forum I admin).
AHA Dedicates $20 Million to Youth Vaping Research
Association and partners aim to "hold e-cigarette companies publicly accountable for their lies"
I am NOT going to link this, as I dont want to give them any more hit count, but what a crock. Appears they are trying to buy an outcome that supports their view. Wish we had $20 mil to conduct our own studies........
"The American Heart Association (AHA) declared a multi-million dollar war on the electronic cigarette industry, and use of e-cigarettes by youth.
The AHA announced at its annual meeting "an aggressive, three-pronged initiative involving research, policy advocacy and youth activation intended to urgently address the epidemic of youth e-cigarette use," according to a press release.
"It is going to take a big, unparalleled, and urgent commitment by national and community level stakeholders if we are going to beat big tobacco," said Robert Harrington, MD, AHA president, at an AHA press conference. The initiative is an "unprecedented effort to drive scientific discovery, and is designed to help end the vaping and nicotine use in this country."
The "End the Lies Youth Vaping and Nicotine Research Initiative" will receive $20 million initially -- an amount that is 40 times larger than the typical AHA grant, the association noted."
The "End the Lies" initiative "will focus urgently on the impact of vaping and nicotine use on youth, funding two or three scientists who will work intensely over the next two years to address the fact that there is no knowledge about the long-term health effects in youth," according to the release."
Association and partners aim to "hold e-cigarette companies publicly accountable for their lies"
I am NOT going to link this, as I dont want to give them any more hit count, but what a crock. Appears they are trying to buy an outcome that supports their view. Wish we had $20 mil to conduct our own studies........
"The American Heart Association (AHA) declared a multi-million dollar war on the electronic cigarette industry, and use of e-cigarettes by youth.
The AHA announced at its annual meeting "an aggressive, three-pronged initiative involving research, policy advocacy and youth activation intended to urgently address the epidemic of youth e-cigarette use," according to a press release.
"It is going to take a big, unparalleled, and urgent commitment by national and community level stakeholders if we are going to beat big tobacco," said Robert Harrington, MD, AHA president, at an AHA press conference. The initiative is an "unprecedented effort to drive scientific discovery, and is designed to help end the vaping and nicotine use in this country."
The "End the Lies Youth Vaping and Nicotine Research Initiative" will receive $20 million initially -- an amount that is 40 times larger than the typical AHA grant, the association noted."
The "End the Lies" initiative "will focus urgently on the impact of vaping and nicotine use on youth, funding two or three scientists who will work intensely over the next two years to address the fact that there is no knowledge about the long-term health effects in youth," according to the release."
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