Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[halonut]

When you look past the minutia of rhetoric and see motive & past performance it's pretty obvious to me how this is going to play out.

1) Allow the vape market & vapers to progress unimpeded for a few years to cultivate the market, advance the technologies & study the health effects.(done)
2) Crush the existing industry.(work in progress)
3) Replace it with BT (cigalikes/ego/evod type devices & liquid) available through the current channels to the masses & BP (higher powered mods, advanced devices & liquids) which will require some type of prescription or card & be available through dispensaries. BP will contract for production of these devices through existing Chinese manufacturers & the markup will be very, very high.(2-10 year window)

The current gobbalygook of reg's is simply to eliminate the small players & vape shops...it's hard to police a colony of ants. Once they're gone BT & BP will have no problems taking over current designs & creating new ones with the blessing of the FDA (once they've paid the fees of course). The FDA has already said they are not concerned about a black market and why should they? Is there a big black market for {other stuff} in Colorado still? I really don't know but would suspect not.

They have used us as guinea pigs & see it as win/win/win situation. The FDA gets to "protect the children" & reap big paydays from product approval/licensing fees. BT gets a big slice of the expanding vape pie as does BP. The only losers are the consumers & the existing industry and frankly my dear the FDA "don't give a damn".

The only ones that truly believe that the FDA is stupid or doesn't know what they are doing are the ones that are naive enough to buy into their "we are only doing this to protect the children BS".

You can look for plenty of flavors including cotton candy & gummi bears once the liquid industry is in the "right hands" because age restriction is now "strictly enforced" so minors have no access to it.

We have proven that the vapor industry is viable, profitable & almost certainly much safer than tobacco & for that I'm sure the FDA/BT/BP are very grateful (although they'll never admit it).

Just my opinion & I barely graduated high school.

 

[StormFinch]

All of us American vapers are going to have to move to the UK. I've been there many times, it is a nice place....

I keep telling people I'm going to claim asylum, that my government is trying to kill me. For some odd reason they seem to think I'm being amusing.

But, but, but they know what is best for you. They are saving you from yourself.

To the point that the movie Idiocracy is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"Feinstein, who has taken the lead on efforts to renew a federal assault weapons ban, acknowledged during a hearing in 1995 of previously having a concealed weapon permit."


Something that was hard to get in CA at that time...

Points to you for knowing exactly what I was speaking of.

This is the same woman who, in a couple of different news conferences about banning assault weapons, blithely pointed one at the crowd in general.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

No one was comparing vaping to guns (except as you have here). We're comparing the hypocrisy and dishonesty of those who are against vaping and individual rights.

And there has been many incidents of people with exploding mods - about the same type as gun accidents - people who don't know what they're doing.

Not necessarily here, but I've seen the comparison used widely, as well as the comparison to alcohol and legalized marijuana. I was just stating that such comparisons anywhere are not necessarily in our best interest.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Endor]

"Feinstein, who has taken the lead on efforts to renew a federal assault weapons ban, acknowledged during a hearing in 1995 of previously having a concealed weapon permit."

Something that was hard to get in CA at that time...

It still is very difficult to get a concealed weapons permit in California. They were forced to loosen it somewhat due to a pending court case on the matter (don't recall off top of my head the details).

I won't get started on this, as I don't want to derail the conversation, but yeah.... she's a hypocrite, all for control as long it doesn't apply to her. But then again, I think a lot of government has falling into this line of thinking as of late, and the voters allow it to continue. They are protecting our children, after all.

 

[StormFinch]

I really wish people would not compare alcohol (heavily taxed and regulated) and guns to vaping. I know that it's all a question of personal freedom and harm reduction, but no one has ever accidentally shot someone while cleaning and unloaded mod. Gang members do not pack mods and "pop a vape in yo' mouf."

Oh, and automatic vaporizers, aka fog machines, are not being regulated.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

The only time I compare alcohol to vapor products is when we get off on the subject of flavors. There are more under age drinkers than smokers and vapers combined, plus you can go into any liquor store and buy alcohol in flavors mimicking fruit loops, apple jacks and orange creamsicle. Yet we're the ones trying to "tempt children"??? Really???

 

[Spazmelda]

I stopped in at the ol' local vape shop this afternoon to see what was going on there. I was happy to see they had a SFATA summary of the deeming regs out for people to look at and said they'd been preparing for this since day one. One thing one guy told me that I hadn't heard before was there have been something like 150 filings for injunctions on the regs so far. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm glad there has been some response from the industry.

 

[wiredlove]

I keep telling people I'm going to claim asylum, that my government is trying to kill me. For some odd reason they seem to think I'm being amusing.



To the point that the movie Idiocracy is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.



Points to you for knowing exactly what I was speaking of.

This is the same woman who, in a couple of different news conferences about banning assault weapons, blithely pointed one at the crowd in general.

Seems to me that is terroristic threatening and wanton endangerment.

 

[wiredlove]

Seems to me that is terroristic threatening and wanton endangerment.

Good god! I hope there weren't children in that crowd!

 

[Pamawoman]

Has anyone seen the YouTube video by Jacob Clare, HR 2058 is dead. I am trying to keep up and I want to support and harangue about the correct bill. What is this dude talking about? And he is totally bashing CASAA. Is he just a conspiracy nut or should he be heeded. After what has happened with the FDA I am starting to believe the conspirists.

 

[sparkky1]

It is saddening that both California Senators were signatories to this. I knew Boxer was rabid anti-vaping, but apparently Feinstein is too.

More saddening is how our government has somehow decided that they need to control every aspect of our lives.

If you were having to rob paul to pay peter, wouldn't you welcome the new tax revenue from vaping industry ?
Wall of Debt - Unsustainable California
Just glad I don't live there anymore, no offence ...........

 

[Kent C]

Not necessarily here, but I've seen the comparison used widely, as well as the comparison to alcohol and legalized .......... I was just stating that such comparisons anywhere are not necessarily in our best interest.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

I suppose if you're anti-gun (or anti-alcohol) then it might be a sensitive issue, but the fact is, there's an underlying motive of the mindset of those who 'know what's best for us' and if some just want to compartmentalize the issue to just 'vaping', then the wider picture is lost. One can say 'they're' against vaping and attack that, or find out why they are and attack that as well.

When they attack the vaping community and vapers and our vendors of trying to harm children and harm others through 2nd and 3rd hand vapor, when no scientific show any harm, or show negligible results that are equal to that of air, then we should expose ALL of their hypocrisies and biases that drive it.

 

[sparkky1]

I stopped in at the ol' local vape shop this afternoon to see what was going on there. I was happy to see they had a SFATA summary of the deeming regs out for people to look at and said they'd been preparing for this since day one. One thing one guy told me that I hadn't heard before was there have been something like 150 filings for injunctions on the regs so far. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm glad there has been some response from the industry.

It means the fda clock will stop ticking and "could" be tied up in litigation for years ................

 

[halonut]

If you were having to rob paul to pay peter, wouldn't you welcome the new tax revenue from vaping industry ?
Wall of Debt - Unsustainable California
Just glad I don't live there anymore, no offence ...........

Once the revenue streams are diverted to the "proper" ponds vaping will ceased to be vilified and will be pronounced a "truly miraculous health advancement"...by the very same talking heads no less

 

[Kent C]

Once the revenue streams are diverted to the "proper" ponds vaping will ceased to be vilified and will be pronounced a "truly miraculous health advancement"...

Didn't happen with cigarettes. Just the opposite actually.

 

[Bronze]

Has anyone seen the YouTube video by Jacob Clare, HR 2058 is dead. I am trying to keep up and I want to support and harangue about the correct bill. What is this dude talking about? And he is totally bashing CASAA. Is he just a conspiracy nut or should he be heeded. After what has happened with the FDA I am starting to believe the conspirists.

I have no idea who Jacob Clare is. Unless I hear something different, he's just some dude with a camera and an opinion. We're one trip to Best Buy from being exactly like him.

My personal feeling is there are several avenues to attack the FDA....some listed below. I plan to pursue all of them until I have reason to believe I am wasting my time. Basically...

1) Support HR2058
2) Support amendments that include provisions in HR2058
3) Support pols/organizations who support these provisions
4) Support lawsuits
5) Support a presidential candidate who will re-appoint DHHS/FDA officials to re-write/dilute the FDA regulations.

My personal opinion (and worth what you paid for it) is that path #5 above will have the best chance of succeeding. But by no means do I rule out any of the others. No way, no how!

 

[halonut]

Didn't happen with cigarettes. Just the opposite actually.

maybe it's just me but I never saw cigs as a health advancement.

 

[MacTechVpr]

When you look past the minutia of rhetoric and see motive & past performance it's pretty obvious to me how this is going to play out.

1) Allow the vape market & vapers to progress unimpeded for a few years to cultivate the market, advance the technologies & study the health effects.(done)
2) Crush the existing industry.(work in progress)
3) Replace it with BT (cigalikes/ego/evod type devices & liquid) available through the current channels to the masses & BP (higher powered mods, advanced devices & liquids) which will require some type of prescription or card & be available through dispensaries. BP will contract for production of these devices through existing Chinese manufacturers & the markup will be very, very high.(2-10 year window)

The current gobbalygook of reg's is simply to eliminate the small players & vape shops...it's hard to police a colony of ants. Once they're gone BT & BP will have no problems taking over current designs & creating new ones with the blessing of the FDA (once they've paid the fees of course). The FDA has already said they are not concerned about a black market and why should they? Is there a big black market for {other stuff} in Colorado still? I really don't know but would suspect not.

They have used us as guinea pigs & see it as win/win/win situation. The FDA gets to "protect the children" & reap big paydays from product approval/licensing fees. BT gets a big slice of the expanding vape pie as does BP. The only losers are the consumers & the existing industry and frankly my dear the FDA "don't give a damn".

The only ones that truly believe that the FDA is stupid or doesn't know what they are doing are the ones that are naive enough to buy into their "we are only doing this to protect the children BS".

You can look for plenty of flavors including cotton candy & gummi bears once the liquid industry is in the "right hands" because age restriction is now "strictly enforced" so minors have no access to it.

We have proven that the vapor industry is viable, profitable & almost certainly much safer than tobacco & for that I'm sure the FDA/BT/BP are very grateful (although they'll never admit it).

Just my opinion & I barely graduated high school.

Yeah mebe halo, but you're a heck of a lot smarter than the peep's who wrote these rules. The don't even know they've already lost.

Good luck all.

 

[Woofer]

"Bill Godshall • 13 hours ago

The most immediate public health and safety threat posed by FDA's inhumane cigarette protecting vapor product ban is the now skyrocketing sales of highly concentrated nicotine e-liquid to vapers for stockpiling and for mixing (i.e. manufacturing) their own e-liquid at home.

After August 8, 2016, the 2,500 vape shops (that buy 100mg/ml nicotine and mix their own e-liquids for customers) will be banned from selling newly manfuctured e-liquid to consumers (and will only be able to sell prebottled e-liquid products that were already on the market on 8/8/16).

So instead of 2,500 vape shops buying and mixing 100mg/ml (or more highly concentrated) nicotine e-liquid, a million or more vapers will soon be buying and mixing 100mg/ml e-liquid in their homes."

"most immediate public health and safety threat" What a crock!

 

[StormFinch]

Didn't happen with cigarettes. Just the opposite actually.

Yeah, but they've known about cigarettes since before tobacco was ever rolled into paper. King James I was having autopsies performed on pipe smokers' lungs and writing treaties against the use of tobacco for heaven's sake. It only took our infant medical establishment another 360 years to catch up.

 

[markfm]

Has anyone seen the YouTube video by Jacob Clare, HR 2058 is dead. I am trying to keep up and I want to support and harangue about the correct bill. What is this dude talking about? And he is totally bashing CASAA. Is he just a conspiracy nut or should he be heeded. After what has happened with the FDA I am starting to believe the conspirists.

There is a Cole-Bishop amendment to the 2017 House Appropriations funding bill for Agriculture. Ask your House Rep and Senators to back that bill, WITH the amendment. Some anti-vaping orgs have already asked Senators to kill the amendment.

The Amendment does the roll-forward of the grandfather date, to whenever the deeming comes into effect (August 2016), instead of 2007. In 2007 vaping was in its infancy, the Ruyan cig-a-like may have between the only device in production (really lame compared to 2016 equipment).