Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[crxess]

Either way it goes BT is not going to lose any sleep over it. Their butts are covered either way.
Big government how ever knows on which side it bread is buttered. vaping is not a long term
viable market for taxation.


One cannot control a product that cannot addict life time non-tobacco users.
The market will always need new smokers to feed into the vaping market to
make it a long term viable solution for taxation purposes. For this reason alone
vaping as it is today has to be eliminated.

Regards
Mike

It would be.......
By Age Wear on Old product availability
Rejection of New Product applications
Requirements for Safer Delivery through Junk science and Regulatory power(hello sealed complete units Good -bye open containers)
Demonization and over taxation
Same story, different product.................without the Billions to sustain its existence.

Tons of avenues for Decimating a Market through Financial Political Legal any means available.

ASAP - We Need Resolution removing Vapor Products from Tobacco Control and Creating a FAIR and Separate means of Regulating Safety of product, Involving Both Industry and Government with a singular goal of Responsibility to the User.

 

[zoiDman]

oops my bad, I read to quickly. I dunno, maybe some kind of system like age verifying can be done like they do some cc today, where the vendor never sees the actual card number.

The more I think about that, the yuk-ier I feel....goodby liberties.

Hello black markets.

I Hear You.

When I think you the 1,000's and 1,000's of Man Hours that went into the FDA Releasing what they Did with regards to e-Cigarettes/e-liquids, the Omission as to Exactly How Age Verification is supposed to be done via the Internet seems.... Troubling.

 

[crxess]

I Hear You.

When I think you the 1,000's and 1,000's of Man Hours that went into the FDA Releasing what they Did with regards to e-Cigarettes/e-liquids, the Omission as to Exactly How Age Verification is supposed to be done via the Internet seems.... Troubling.

I believe this is a Pissing Battle that falls under interstate trade and they felt best to leave it to others to deal with the frustration of controlling.

interstate commerce | United States law

 

[zoiDman]

I believe this is a Pissing Battle that falls under interstate trade and they felt best to leave it to others to deal with the frustration of controlling.

Could Be...

Just Doesn't sound like the FDA that I have come to Know and Love.

 

[Mowgli]

 

[Steamix]

In case it hasn't been linked yet - at least some sliver of light :

 

[bobwho77]

Good, because I still believe there is Hope that we can Effect a level of Change in all this.

I think we can, but it will take a lot of people doing a lot of work.
One of the court cases being filed should get us (at least) a temporary injunction to stop the clock on any enforcement. That will buy a bit more time to work on congressional action, but we need to be getting some kind of PR campaign up, and running. The more people we can get on our side, the better.
A win over Deeming in the federal courts will give us leverage to push back against some of the restrictions at the state level too

 

[crxess]

Could Be...

Just Doesn't sound like the FDA that I have come to Know and Love.

Probably falls to responsibility of another Branch of government

As Always - Follow the Money:

Counterfeit cigarettes have a direct impact on the U.S. economy since no one pays the federal or state taxes or Master Settlement Agreement payments.

Whatcha' think?

This differs from contraband cigarettes, where the federal taxes may be paid by the manufacturer but the state taxes are generally not paid.

Fact Sheet - Tobacco Enforcement | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Sorry, but we are talking Cigarettes here - Over Taxed DEATH IN A TUBE sanctioned by the U.S. Government, not Bullets
Of course, not to much mention of financial stress on Big Tobacco

 

[bobwho77]

Right, utter madness. How can a nicotine-free mixture of PG, VG, and food flavorings possible be "Made from tobacco"?

I can see the entire package of regulations simply imploding into a black hole from the mass of it's own contradictions

 

[Bob Chill]

Quick OT post. Just want to thank everyone in this thread for such a high level of intelligent discussion about all the known and unknown implications of the regs. 499 pages of vague and indirect guidance is hard to sort out. Best thread I've ever read or posted in.

Now Back to sorting out the quagmire we are in...lol

 

[Kent C]

I guess, if you're BT, it gets down to do you Want Everyone to be Grandfathered and not have to do PMTA's?

Or would you Rather want to have Everyone do a PMTA when Very Few could Afford it?

That's part of the problem with PMTAs.... one never knows whether they'll be accepted. Whether you are the only ones who can afford them or not. It may very well be that the tobacco companies know their market (as Bob Chill says) and they don't care about the other market OR that they will address that in due time. I know that doesn't go with the "The FDA and BT are in bed together" view - but I've never thought that to be the case, as you may know, if you've been paying attention.

If you read all the comments and responses in the deeming, the FDA never gave in to any comments about 'our science' and came back with their science to dispute any supposed (to them) benefits. And yet, part of what vendors will have to provide is some of the science in the comments. Along with all the other attempts to "prove a negative" that the applications demand. I don't see much hope (along with the past track record) of any PMTAs making it through, whether from vape companies or BT.

For all the millions that might be spent on PMTAs where there is absolutely no guarantee of any being accepted - perhaps that money would be better channeled to defeat anti-vaping candidates, and/or supporting pro-vape candidates.

 

[Iron Molly]

It's starting...

"Lawmakers to consider whether more e-cigarette rules needed"

This is in Connecticut. The public hearing is next Wednesday. *sigh* I'm not hopeful on internet sales after 8/8, since it's my understanding that CT bans internet sales of tobacco products.

This whole mess is really upsetting, to say the least.

 

[Kent C]

Right, utter madness. How can a nicotine-free mixture of PG, VG, and food flavorings possible be "Made from tobacco"?

By deeming it so.

 

[Rossum]

By deeming it so.

A is A.
A is not B.

 

[Kent C]

A is A.
A is not B.

Not to people who don't get A is A in the first place :- ) Or for those who have the power to make A into B.

 

[Kent C]

It's starting...

"Lawmakers to consider whether more e-cigarette rules needed"

This is in Connecticut. The public hearing is next Wednesday. *sigh* I'm not hopeful on internet sales after 8/8, since it's my understanding that CT bans internet sales of tobacco products.

This whole mess is really upsetting, to say the least.

Zeller pointed out that the deeming regulation is “a foundation jurisdictional step”. We should not expect this to this to be the end, as it was clear this is only the beginning, We can certainly expect more regulations in the future. Zeller made it clear that “We should all expect that when deeming is final and in effect, there will be other rulemaking,”

 

[Jingles]

It's starting...

"Lawmakers to consider whether more e-cigarette rules needed"

This is in Connecticut. The public hearing is next Wednesday. *sigh* I'm not hopeful on internet sales after 8/8, since it's my understanding that CT bans internet sales of tobacco products.

This whole mess is really upsetting, to say the least.

I am scared to death about internet sales bans. My favorite vendors are out of state! I think any state should have to provide cold, hard facts about how many minors are ordering online. My personal theory is very, very few. Of course, I know interstate sales bans are also so the state can make sure they get all the taxes that they fill entitled to. I guess I am just tired of certain people telling me where I can buy legal products. Frustrated!

 

[budynbuick]

SOP.


Maybe so much democracy got exported that there isn't any to spare for home ... :/

That is the problem. We have been turned from a Constitutional Republic into a majority rule democracy. democracy is working just like it is supposed to. The majority rules. Democracy was anathema to the founders. They said that is the ideology we would have to guard against the most. it has been around for ever. Always ends in tyranny.

 

[Rossum]

Not to people who don't get A is A in the first place :- ) Or for those who have the power to make A into B.

 

[Train2]

It truly is boggling.

I hereby deem that the FDA shall henceforth be "The Ministry of Health".

(for those who skipped that year in high school:
The Ministry of Peace is in charge of war. Ministry of Love is in charge of torturing people. The Ministry of Truth disseminates all the lies, etc.)

A is A.
A is not B.

Not to people who don't get A is A in the first place :- ) Or for those who have the power to make A into B.