Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

zoiDman

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Yep. The sentence you've highlighted is what people need to be aware of. -If- I remember correctly I think the European countries are considering making 1ml of juice equal to 1 pack of cigarettes for "tax" purposes. Somewhere down the road the U.S. will be making an equivalency determination for the same purpose. It's not a matter of if.... And then of course there the states who may actually beat them to the feeding trough.

What I quoted should Scare the Hell out of Vaper's.

Not because few think that e-liquids won't be Taxed. But because when the "Secretary" goes to Peg an e-liquid Tax to use, what amount is going to be Consider to be Equivalent to 1 Pack of Cigarettes?

Remember all those Early Claims that 1 Prefilled .8ml Carto was Equal to a Pack of Cigarettes?
 

Alexander Mundy

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I dont know if this has been posted or not? "e-cigarettes and public health"
American Enterprise Institute Hosts Discussion | Video | C-SPAN.org

Thank you for that. I'm only half way through and now have to attend to other matters, but the part showing the loonacy of Deeming "tobacco" products to include batteries, flashlights, etc made me smile when he showed a GDNA developed by Gdeal would still be available since the FDA can't take 3D "tobacco products" printers off the market. :lol:

hqs9XHr.jpg
 

Kent C

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I beg to differ with you just a bit.
Socialism fools people into thinking they, the people own the rights of production and distribution or will own (the promise they make to gain adherents) of goods when in fact it is, in practice, the state who does.

What Rand was saying is that it is more "honest" for socialists to say that the state owns production and distribution, vs. fascists who say that the people still "own" (but not control) the property. When control = ownership by definition.

While it is true that socialist gov't may call it a "People's Republic" - the people there, are under no misconception that the state owns all of it. Volkswagen, for example, under Hitler, may have thought they owned their company, when in fact, if Hitler wanted them to produce tanks instead of Beetles, they would make tanks. That better reflects what you say above - they're fooled.

The people living in a true socialist economy are usually better informed of the situation than their fascist/mixed economy counterparts - some who continue to think they still have rights and property. They don't.

If the deeming goes as some have suggested - only closed systems, then whoever may still be in business and think they "own" the business, are still controlled by the deeming in much the same way. They may want to make open systems in the same way VW would want to make Beetles, but they will make closed systems... or none at all.
 
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Str8vision

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What I quoted should Scare the Hell out of Vaper's.

Not because few think that e-Liquids won't be Taxed. But because when the "Secretary" goes to Peg an e-Liquid Tax to use, what amount is going to be Consider to be Equivalent to 1 Pack of Cigarettes?

Remember all those Early Claims that 1 Prefilled .8ml Carto was Equal to a Pack of Cigarettes?


Imagine what the price of 100mg liquid nic would be per liter. Considering my current freezer "assets", I could suddenly be worth millions! I might need to off-shore those assets just to avoid paying taxes on my new found wealth. :eek:
 

Lessifer

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Imagine what the price of 100mg liquid nic would be per liter. Considering my current freezer "assets", I could suddenly be worth millions! I might need to off-shore those assets just to avoid paying taxes on my new found wealth. :eek:
Bear witness to the birth of a new, profitable black market drug trade.
 

Slots

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Imagine what the price of 100mg liquid nic would be per liter. Considering my current freezer "assets", I could suddenly be worth millions!. :eek:
Between you and a few other (not me of course :rolleyes:), we could run a profitable black market :p
I'm 76, so if they throw me in jail, someone else can do the cooking, and I get better dental and medical care, TV, and time to read all the books I've collected :thumbs:
 

Str8vision

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Between you and a few other (not me of course :rolleyes:), we could run a profitable black market :p
I'm 76, so if they throw me in jail, someone else can do the cooking, and I get better dental and medical care, TV, and time to read all the books I've collected :thumbs:

I'm afraid my intentions are quite selfish, tax free self sufficiency for life. At my age it's extremely possible to do.
 

zoiDman

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5 years from Now...

The Administration has announced they will be Naming a Tobacco Czar to work closely with the Department of Homeland Security in combating what it calls "Nicotine Cartels". Sources close to the Whitehouse say that one possible Candidate for the Tobacco Czar is former CA Sen. Barbara Boxer.

And in other News. A 67 Year Old women was Dragged from her home by FDA Enforcement Officers and Arrested for providing a Non FDA Approved e-Liquid to her bed ridden Husband. The women, who name was not disclosed, will be charged with being an Unlicensed Manufacture of Tobacco Products. And if convicted, with face 1 Year in Prison and a $25,000 Fine.

Now, for Sports and Weather...
 

Katya

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5 years from Now...

Five years from now? Have you read the actual text of the PACT Act of 2010?

Text of S. 1147 (111th): PACT Act (Passed Congress/Enrolled Bill version) - GovTrack.us

"Congress finds that—

(1)
the sale of illegal cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products significantly reduces Federal, State, and local government revenues, with Internet sales alone accounting for billions of dollars of lost Federal, State, and local tobacco tax revenue each year;

(2)
Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda, and other terrorist organizations have profited from trafficking in illegal cigarettes or counterfeit cigarette tax stamps;

(3)
terrorist involvement in illicit cigarette trafficking will continue to grow because of the large profits such organizations can earn;"
 

Pamawoman

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May I please point something out?
They fired when Lavoy went for his cellphone.
He was not going for his piece even though he knew
he was scheduled to die ever since he began hanging out under that tarp.
The {moderated} called him up then when he went to answer
overkill just to make sure.
Still ticked off about that crap.
And still no legit investigations? I guess their lives didn't matter.
 

Pamawoman

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Yea, I was actually referring to both incidents.
I mentioned Nevada, Bundy, LaVoy.
I didn't put them all together..didn't want to get too much into it lest I
aggravate the local fuzz.
Note that little Bundy was in both cases...I watched both cases intently
because I've had land that I was forced to sell for pennies on the dollar to
the parks dept for "conservation purposes"

The parks dept then turned around and leased the land to Exxon
...probably for conservation purposes also. (drilling for oil) It sure as heck didn't get annexed to
Everglades National Park. We got screwed for 13 acres..which in FL even for
"unimproved" land equals hundreds of thousands of $$$$$$.$$
Exxon?? I would have thought Big Sugar or another highway. Floriduhhhh
 

crxess

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Five years from now? Have you read the actual text of the PACT Act of 2010?

Text of S. 1147 (111th): PACT Act (Passed Congress/Enrolled Bill version) - GovTrack.us

"Congress finds that—

(1)
the sale of illegal cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products significantly reduces Federal, State, and local government revenues, with Internet sales alone accounting for billions of dollars of lost Federal, State, and local tobacco tax revenue each year;

(2)
Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda, and other terrorist organizations have profited from trafficking in illegal cigarettes or counterfeit cigarette tax stamps;

(3)
terrorist involvement in illicit cigarette trafficking will continue to grow because of the large profits such organizations can earn;"

Sounds like Government complicity to me. :unsure:
Run up cost, create a Black market.

Can we charge them with Aiding?
 
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Katya

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Sounds like Government complacency to me. :unsure:
Run up cost, create a Black market.

Can we charge them with Aiding?

If you meant to say complicity, then yes. That's what they've been doing for years. Raising taxes, passing stupid laws, creating black and gray markets and thus aiding and abetting.
 

Steamix

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What Rand was saying is that it is more "honest" for socialists to say that the state owns production and distribution, vs. fascists who say that the people still "own" (but not control) the property. When control = ownership by definition.

While it is true that socialist gov't may call it a "People's Republic" - the people there, are under no misconception that the state owns all of it. Volkswagen, for example, under Hitler, may have thought they own their company, when in fact, if Hitler wanted them to produce tanks instead of Beetles, they would make tanks. That better reflects what you say above - they're fooled.

The people living in a true socialist economy are usually better informed of the situation than their fascist/mixed economy counterparts - some who continue to think they still have rights and property. They don't.

If the deeming goes as some have suggested - only closed systems, then whoever may still be in business and think they "own" the business, are still controlled by the deeming in much the same way. They may want to make open systems in the same way VW would want to make Beetles, but they will make closed systems... or none at all.

Is easy:

Broke ?
It's called a 'Republic of...'

Very broke ?
Then it's called a 'People's Republic of...'

Cuz the people own the debts and the others - after having made it broker in the first place - own the profits.

Manufacturer. Consumer. Prosumer ( read your Alvin Toffler :) ).

Where do you draw the line ? Common sense or deeming a line where there isn't one ?

Everyone cooks at home.
Trip to the mall, get enough stuff to whip together a fruit salad or smoothie that puts any OTC supplement to shame in term of nutritional / health benefits.
Doesn't turn me into a drug manufacturer though.

Cuz i can slop together some junk as well and call it food.
Doesn't turn me into a burger chain though.

Trip to the park and the garden, get enough stuff to concoct a tasty meal - that if I set my mind to it - could do you in just as reliable as a gunshot to the brain stem. Less messy too :D
Doesn't turn me into purveyor of WMD though.

Yet we got this F(ools) D(ooming) A(merica)

saying just that. And getting applauded by puritans whose thinking patterns are only marginally different from puritans of other ilk. Doesn't really matter if these puritans come clean-shaven in three-piece-suits bearing regulation texts or if they come with scraggly beards in kaftans bearing IED's; their brain matter is folded - or shall I say warped - in very similar ways. Their message is identical : Do it the way we want or else.

Vaping is a simple technology at its core. Pour PG and flavour extracts in a cauldron over an open fireand it can be done in a alchemist's tower back in medevial times. It gained momentum because it became mobile and easy to handle with the availability of advanced power sources.

An it could very well become the litmus test for the government:
For the people, for tolerance - or - for the profits, for ideological straightjacket

Homo homini lupus est

We live in interesting times...
 

HazyShades

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nineironman

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I think that if BP had tried to develop the vaping products, they would have been tied to similar standards as these deeming requirements and the PMTA that we are hoping to turn back. It would have been crazy expensive to invest in something that from their past experience resulted in something nobody wanted. Product improvements would happen slowly, if at all. I don't think their stockholders would have been willing to accept that kind of risk.

The vaping industry was allowed to grow and thrive without much interference from the outside. In the AEI video, they showed the progression of the product and how one guy started with an idea, and some more guys improved upon it, rinse/repeat until we have a pretty good product that was designed to meet our wishes for what we wanted/needed to satisfy our nico-demons and get off the smokes.

Unless they can change the predicate dates to 2016, and allow even a slim chance of a SE product as a basis for any improvements, I am afraid we are going to be stuck with what we have now for a very long time.

BTW, the AEI was a good video, and thank you for all that posted the links.
I think that when vaping started, the big boys thought that no one would want this, look at our attempts, but, slowly the changes brought on by the people became the exact thing that they wanted to bring about, we just cut out the middle man. And they want thier tolls.
 

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