Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[retired1]

the Black Market will prove the truth about these life-saving devices.

The majority of those that would otherwise try vaping to quit smoking will know absolutely nothing about the black market. All they'll know is there are limited choices available from Big Tobacco.

Bear in mind, the ECF membership is a very small minority when compared to the entire vaping community world wide. And the majority of those who use electronic cigarettes aren't using the advanced mods and atomizers.

 

[retired1]

I should also add that even with the creation of a robust black market, there will be many who will not purchase via that route for many reasons. Especially for those that undergo periodic investigations for job purposes. Last thing someone wants to pop up during a background investigation is the fact they purchase contraband in the black market.

 

[skoony]

But just like the FDA needed the FSPTCA to give them Authority over e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids via Deeming, it Wouldn't surprise me if the ATF/TTB needed to do something Also to include e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids into Their authority.

The FDA has deemed e-cigarettes tobacco products ergo,

'Tobacco traffickers move black market contraband cigarettes and/or other tobacco products (OTP) purchased from low tax states to be sold in higher tax states."
Fact Sheet - Tobacco Enforcement | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
This seems to cover only products that are taxed but,there's this also,
Title 18, United States Code, Section 2320 – Trafficking in counterfeit cigarettes.
"(1)
traffics in goods or services and knowingly uses a counterfeit mark on or in connection with such goods or services,
(2)
traffics in labels, patches, stickers, wrappers, badges, emblems, medallions, charms, boxes, containers, cans, cases, hangtags, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature, knowing that a counterfeit mark has been applied thereto, the use of which is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive,"

IMHO this covers BT's .... once they have what ever is left of the e-cig market.
The use of which is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive.
This covers more territory than just using Vuse's name. Having witnessed the Gov's
penchant for overly broad interpretation any thing having to word e-anything on them
could possibly get caught up in this net.
Granted it also gives authority to after fake EGO's,Suicide Bunny or, 5P's.
18 U.S. Code § 2320 - Trafficking in counterfeit goods or services

I do not desire going so cheap as to get sulfuric acid shipped to me as nicotine or some such.

?! IMHO I will never understand why people assume that any vendor would do such
a thing. There are laws against this.Civil,fraud,misrepresentation,etc. . Criminal if
it causes harm.

Well, those are some of the loopholes they're closing with this deeming. Pipe tobacco is now covered. Also, e-liquid flavoring, as a component, is subject to the regulations.

This is of course just my opinion, but I seriously think the only distinction is: For sale to manufacturer, or For sale to consumer. If it's sold to the consumer, it's covered.

I think your assessment is correct. This also protects who ever is left.(who would they be)
They will be able to get their materials at much less current prices to increase
profit margins on their overly priced products in a much smaller market.
"Get your FDA approved e-cigarettes from us."

This brings up an interesting question.
Will those that do manage to get and keep their products on the market
get to use the FDA logo and or statements of approval on their labels.
Unlike cigarettes on the market today the FDA in fact would have approved
them from scratch.

Regards
Mike

 

[drum747]

So this morning, all over twitter in what looks like a coordination, this is being tweeted out by many, many of people. The exact same wording. This is the new "portal" maybe they are fishing. Hmm

P. S. "A Billion Lives" is reporting they had a private screening for members of Congress and their staff's this morning.

 

[gt_1955]

At least $12 bucks a pack here in the Big Apple.

Hi Lauragal! Long time no see.
Wow, that is expensive. All for taxes...

Regards,
Hazy

Oz price: 1pkt of Marlboro Red is $23.50 with another 60% rise in tax over the next 4 years.

 

[WillyZee]

The majority of those that would otherwise try vaping to quit smoking will know absolutely nothing about the black market. All they'll know is there are limited choices available from Big Tobacco.

Bear in mind, the ECF membership is a very small minority when compared to the entire vaping community world wide. And the majority of those who use electronic cigarettes aren't using the advanced mods and atomizers.

Basically what I am saying is ... the Vaping Genie will never get put back in the bottle.

It may take a resurgence 5 years from now for the public to realize they were lied to about Vaping.

Maybe it will take 10 years ... either way, this hijacking will be exposed.

They started hijacking the Vape Industry about 8 years too late ... this might have worked if they had of stifled Vaping before the true Innovation took off.

Bottom line is ... open tank systems work as a very successful smoking cessation.



Sent via iPhone

 

[retired1]

So this morning, all over twitter in what looks like a coordination, this is being tweeted out by many, many of people. The exact same wording. This is the new "portal" maybe they are fishing. Hmm

Most likely the FDA bots. This has been reported in the past, and was even brought to the attention of Twitter. And Twitter, contrary to what their ToS states, does absolutely nothing about it.

 

[englishmick]

Nicotine needs to be un-demonized (is that a word ?)

For many, many years nicotine has been a mythological evil creature due to lack of knowledge and false fear mongering "facts"


...quite a task

When I signed up on ECF I knew nicotine was the addictive component of cigarettes. Somewhere along the line I had picked up on the idea that it was the other stuff in cigarettes that made people sick, but the addiction was definitely down to nicotine.

It took a lot of reading to get myself straight on that one. I was able to do it because I was hanging out on ECF a lot and sucking up information eagerly. Still took a while before I was confident about it. If I had started vaping and not got into the forum scene I would still be sure nicotine was addictive. Likewise if I had never started vaping.

Ideas like nicotine is addictive are hard to break down because they are planted deep in our brains over a long period of time. I don't think there was malice involved in the origin of that theory. I'm sure there's malice behind some activists working to maintain it today.

I really don't know what it will take to shake the general population loose from that belief. @DC2 suggested that BP will start pushing nic based drugs once vaping has been got rid of. When that happens the flood of bogus anti-nic studies might be replaced with a flood of nic-is-good studies. It won't be easy though. I've tried to explain it to a few friends with zero success. They just think I'm a vaping zealot and roll their eyes.

 

[retired1]

I really don't know what it will take to shake the general population loose from that belief.

Until government shills like the CDC actually do some serious research and correct the misconceptions out there, there will be no change in attitudes/beliefs surrounding nicotine. Until that happens, nicotine will always be claimed to be as addictive as that drug that begins with H.

There is far too much money at stake to be honest. All the agencies (like AHA, ALA, ACA, etc.) rely on funding and the lies surrounding cigarettes (yes, they're harmful, but it's not the nicotine). In order for them to continue raking in the cash, they have to demonize vaping as well or the well dries up and they're out of business.

 

[VNeil]

When I signed up on ECF I knew nicotine was the addictive component of cigarettes. Somewhere along the line I had picked up on the idea that it was the other stuff in cigarettes that made people sick, but the addiction was definitely down to nicotine.

It took a lot of reading to get myself straight on that one. I was able to do it because I was hanging out on ECF a lot and sucking up information eagerly. Still took a while before I was confident about it. If I had started vaping and not got into the forum scene I would still be sure nicotine was addictive. Likewise if I had never started vaping.

Ideas like nicotine is addictive are hard to break down because they are planted deep in our brains over a long period of time. I don't think there was malice involved in the origin of that theory. I'm sure there's malice behind some activists working to maintain it today.

I really don't know what it will take to shake the general population loose from that belief. @DC2 suggested that BP will start pushing nic based drugs once vaping has been got rid of. When that happens the flood of bogus anti-nic studies might be replaced with a flood of nic-is-good studies. It won't be easy though. I've tried to explain it to a few friends with zero success. They just think I'm a vaping zealot and roll their eyes.

I too get that blank look when I try to explain the truth behind nicotine. The power of propaganda can never be fully comprehended.

 

[Spazmelda]

When I signed up on ECF I knew nicotine was the addictive component of cigarettes. Somewhere along the line I had picked up on the idea that it was the other stuff in cigarettes that made people sick, but the addiction was definitely down to nicotine.

It took a lot of reading to get myself straight on that one. I was able to do it because I was hanging out on ECF a lot and sucking up information eagerly. Still took a while before I was confident about it. If I had started vaping and not got into the forum scene I would still be sure nicotine was addictive. Likewise if I had never started vaping.

Ideas like nicotine is addictive are hard to break down because they are planted deep in our brains over a long period of time. I don't think there was malice involved in the origin of that theory. I'm sure there's malice behind some activists working to maintain it today.

I really don't know what it will take to shake the general population loose from that belief. @DC2 suggested that BP will start pushing nic based drugs once vaping has been got rid of. When that happens the flood of bogus anti-nic studies might be replaced with a flood of nic-is-good studies. It won't be easy though. I've tried to explain it to a few friends with zero success. They just think I'm a vaping zealot and roll their eyes.

I was just discussing nicotine with my husband last night. Even though I've mentioned to him before that it doesn't seem to be as addictive by itself as we have always been told, he still looked at me as if I had two heads. I think he thought I was buying into some tin foil conspiracy theory. Like @englishmick it took me a long time to accept that nicotine might not be that addictive on its own, even though my work in biology research was with two proteins that work synergistically, so I that concept makes perfect sense to me. It also took me a really long time to accept that smokeless tobacco was indeed less harmful than combustible tobacco, because that fact has been swept under the rug so effectively.

 

[VNeil]

I too get that blank look when I try to explain the truth behind nicotine. The power of propaganda can never be fully comprehended.

And a big part of the problem is that they think absorbing 30 second soundbites from cable news makes them an expert on the subject.

 

[LittleBird]

...
P. S. "A Billion Lives" is reporting they had a private screening for members of Congress and their staff's this morning.

Any ability to find out who attended? I'd like to write to those people.

 

[Bronze]

The biggest problem e-cigarettes has is that people inhale them and a cloud is exhaled. To the uninformed, it mimics smoking too much so, therefore, it has to be bad. Patches and gum do not have this image problem.

 

[Bob Chill]

When I signed up on ECF I knew nicotine was the addictive component of cigarettes. Somewhere along the line I had picked up on the idea that it was the other stuff in cigarettes that made people sick, but the addiction was definitely down to nicotine.

It took a lot of reading to get myself straight on that one. I was able to do it because I was hanging out on ECF a lot and sucking up information eagerly. Still took a while before I was confident about it. If I had started vaping and not got into the forum scene I would still be sure nicotine was addictive. Likewise if I had never started vaping.

Ideas like nicotine is addictive are hard to break down because they are planted deep in our brains over a long period of time. I don't think there was malice involved in the origin of that theory. I'm sure there's malice behind some activists working to maintain it today.

I really don't know what it will take to shake the general population loose from that belief. @DC2 suggested that BP will start pushing nic based drugs once vaping has been got rid of. When that happens the flood of bogus anti-nic studies might be replaced with a flood of nic-is-good studies. It won't be easy though. I've tried to explain it to a few friends with zero success. They just think I'm a vaping zealot and roll their eyes.

Agreed. The physical and mental grip of cigs is quite fierce. I have no other experience in my life that comes close to the supermagnetic pull towards lighting up a pack of smokes each and every day. The grip of flying across the country just dying to get out of the airport to FINALLY have a smoke.

I personally debunked the myth within 3 months of vaping just because I was getting too much nic. I had to quickly drop my levels from 18 to 12 just so I could vape as much as I wanted and not get that weird feeling. Then I dropped to 10 then 8 then 6. Not by design but by default. Yes, gear is more efficient now but not that much. I'm a low power kayfun user. My consumption has never changed but my strength certainly has.

I now know for certain that for me personally that nicotine is simply habit forming and not an addiction. Just like coffee. I used to drink 4-6 cups of coffee a day. Now I only drink 2 and have so for nearly a decade. Nicotine and caffeine are take what you need chemicals. But needs change up and down the scale over time. Addiction on the other hand only goes one direction to remain satisfied. You generally stay at par (for me about 1 pack a day) or step it up over time. Also, once you get caught in the grip of smoking then smoking becomes a requirement and not a need.

I'm pretty sure I could go zero nic right not but I see no reason to do so. And that brings up another question. If cigarettes had no nicotine would we still smoke them? Would they be satisfying like zero nic vaping? That's a tough one to answer. Either way cigarettes are a very complicated chemical process on the body. Many things working together to dig the nails in deep and not let go.

 

[Endor]

Oz price: 1pkt of Marlboro Red is $23.50 with another 60% rise in tax over the next 4 years.

I spent a few weeks in Oz about 2 years ago on business and was absolutely shocked at the price of cigarettes. I originally thought the prices were for a carton, not just a single pack!

I was glad I had converted to vaping, especially since the USD-AUD conversion rate at the time was even exchange (1:1).

 

[drum747]

BBC Scotland, May 22 so may have already been posted but here you go just in case:

 

[Lessifer]

Will those that do manage to get and keep their products on the market
get to use the FDA logo and or statements of approval on their labels.
Unlike cigarettes on the market today the FDA in fact would have approved
them from scratch.

Regards
Mike

I don't think so. If I recall correctly, the products won't technically be "FDA approved" but rather their marketing application has been approved.

 

[VNeil]

I too get that blank look when I try to explain the truth behind nicotine. The power of propaganda can never be fully comprehended.

And by the way... our single greatest enemy is not the BT/BP/BG triumvarent. It's BM, Big Media.

A rather fitting acronym if I may say so myself

 

[retired1]

The media only spews what's spoon fed to them. Investigative journalism died ages ago.