Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

Lessifer

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For any of you who have signatures turned off, I've added this to mine, for future reference.

DISCLAIMER: None of my posts are intended to be taken as orders for what people or businesses should or should not do. If I suggest an action, it is merely that, a suggestion. Opinions expressed are solely the opinions of the poster, me, unless otherwise stated.
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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I think it's important to point out that the vocal proponents of vape businesses actively engaging customers on the deeming regs are not, in any way, that I've heard, even suggesting that any business should be forced to.

Everyone that I've seen post to the effect has been saying that every vape business should be doing it; the strongest such opinions (including mine) being that they don't care to do business with the ones that do not.

There is no conflict with capitalism there. That is actually one of the critical cogs of free-market capitalism:

If a vendor conducts their business in a way that their customer disagrees with, then the customer finds another business with which to do business.

None of us that have been vocal on the subject have said that the FDA should step in and shut down those businesses because we don't agree with their practices....oh wait...
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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For any of you who have signatures turned off, I've added this to mine, for future reference.

DISCLAIMER: None of my posts are intended to be taken as orders for what people or businesses should or should not do. If I suggest an action, it is merely that, a suggestion. Opinions expressed are solely the opinions of the poster, me, unless otherwise stated.

Prescient timing, Less.
 

The Ocelot

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Who's going to tell him?

He's likely to implode upon hearing the news.
Not that that's a bad thing.

I nominate you.

Stanton Glantz
Office:
Box 1390 , 530 Parnassus Avenue, Library 366, University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, CA. 94143 - 1390
Phone Number:
415-476-3893
E-mail: glantz@medicine.ucsf.edu
 

zoiDman

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For any of you who have signatures turned off, I've added this to mine, for future reference.

DISCLAIMER: None of my posts are intended to be taken as orders for what people or businesses should or should not do. If I suggest an action, it is merely that, a suggestion. Opinions expressed are solely the opinions of the poster, me, unless otherwise stated.

Seems kinda Silly that you should have to put this type of Disclaimer in your Signature.

But I can Understand why you Did.
 

Kent C

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For any of you who have signatures turned off, I've added this to mine, for future reference.

DISCLAIMER: None of my posts are intended to be taken as orders for what people or businesses should or should not do. If I suggest an action, it is merely that, a suggestion. Opinions expressed are solely the opinions of the poster, me, unless otherwise stated.

123776276.jpg
 

DC2

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I nominate you.

Stanton Glantz
Office:
Box 1390 , 530 Parnassus Avenue, Library 366, University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, CA. 94143 - 1390
Phone Number:
415-476-3893
E-mail: glantz@medicine.ucsf.edu
HOLY CRAP!!

I just called and got him on the phone directly.
And after only two rings.

I was NOT prepared at all.
I figured for sure I'd be talking to his secretary at best.

He said if I wanted to collect my thoughts and call back later he would be there for awhile.

Can I nominate someone else?
I consider him a serial killer and I don't maintain composure well.
:laugh:
 
Last edited:

zoiDman

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HOLY CRAP!!

I just called and got him on the phone directly.
And after only two rings.

I was NOT prepared at all.
He said if I wanted to collect my thoughts and call back later he would be there for awhile.

Good Job DC!
 

GunMonkeyINTL

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I think the distinction being missed here is particularly profound, because it is actual elimination of the same distinction that has put us in this place.

You are free (should be, at least) to give your opinion to anyone, at any time, about anything you please.

In this case, some of us have been stating our opinion that business owners should be doing a certain thing we believe to be in our shared interest. Likewise, some have shared their opinion that other customers should not do business with vendors who don't do this thing.

This is no different than a vegan telling businesses that they should not sell animal products, and telling consumers that they should not buy them.

These are both entirely different, though, than either party actively trying to prohibit others for acting counter to their opinion/belief, but that distinction seems to have been missed here, by some.


Consider that in light of why we're even having this discussion:

If someone on the street wanted to tell any of us that they believe vaping is worse than smoking, or that it contains formaldehyde, or that it'll make your eyeballs fall out, we'd be free to ignore them and walk away. Or, better still, we'd be free to counter their idea with our's and, in due time, through the evolution of thought, progress would be made in our individual, and, eventually, collective understandings.

However, our society has shifted to a place where the proper course of action, in any given situation, is held to be to force your intellectual adversary to conform to your current belief and accept your current understanding.

So, to whit, instead of the FDA opening a dialog and kickstarting the evolution of discourse, they use their position to choose a winner in the debate, relegate their current belief to "fact", and shutter understanding to any further consideration.

They should have, according to the principles on which our nation is founded, started a discussion, searched out and presented facts, and, regardless of how the discourse evolved, left those who chose not to adhere to whatever generally-accepted outcome was arrived at, choose not to adhere to it.
 

The Ocelot

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It's only a matter of time...

"FDA considers the inks used in intradermal tattoos, including permanent makeup, to be cosmetics. When we identify a safety problem associated with a cosmetic, including a tattoo ink, we investigate and take action, as appropriate, to prevent consumer illness or injury. The pigments used in the inks are color additives, which are subject to premarket approval under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.

"However, because of other competing public health priorities and a previous lack of evidence of safety problems specifically associated with these pigments, FDA traditionally has not exercised regulatory authority for color additives on the pigments used in tattoo inks."
 

Kent C

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Steamix

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Here comes the FDA! Report your defective e-cig to the FDA!

Updated on 6/8/16

"Problems with E-Cigarettes, Vape Products, Hookah, Cigarettes or Tobacco? Tell FDA

Are you using a tobacco product—from e-cigs to cigars and cigarettes, hookah to smokeless—that you believe is defective or is causing an unexpected health problem? Does it have a strange taste or smell?"

Source which includes a link to the reporting tool!

:evil:

Lovely !

So log in, and link to ecf ...

Cuz at ecf you can report and get good advice on getting it solved.

So keep dem little dirt digging bots from FDA busy... :D
 
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The Ocelot

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HOLY CRAP!!

I just called and got him on the phone directly.
And after only two rings.

I was NOT prepared at all.
I figured for sure I'd be talking to his secretary at best.

He said if I wanted to collect my thoughts and call back later he would be there for awhile.

Can I nominate someone else?
I consider him a serial killer and I don't maintain composure well.
:laugh:

I thought you would email him. :)
 

Bronze

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I did that a while back with Arthur Laffer... of Laffer Curve fame.

Arthur Laffer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was stunned but recovered and had about a 1/2 hour of good conversation. He was gracious and interested and interesting.
I find Arthur Laffer to be very interesting that goes beyond his economic views. He's the antithesis of what you commonly think of an economist. I'll bet he was a riot to talk to. I'm impressed that you had that opportunity. And yes, he is definitely a gracious man.
 

Kent C

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I find Arthur Laffer to be very interesting that goes beyond his economic views. He's the antithesis of what you commonly think of an economist. I'll bet he was a riot to talk to. I'm impressed that you had that opportunity. And yes, he is definitely a gracious man.

No intent to derail thread any more than it is, but I'll just say I agree with your assessment and I was equally impressed at the opportunity.
 

Katya

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This goes back a ways.... nhaler's 'lung juice' - no longer sold, iirc, had lobelia root in ingredients.

Lung Renewal Juice

This is very sad. I've been vaping Green Tea Lung for 5 years or more. I was just about to reorder and found out that it's not available. I sent them an email, but the entire Nhaler forum looks like it's been inactive since April. I wonder if they are going to survive without Drew. :cry:
 
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The Ocelot

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The latest from Dr. Siegel:

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: The Last Straw: Anti-Tobacco Groups are Actively Promoting Smoking

Is the FDA going to hire taste testers to determine if e-liquids taste like tobacco? What are they going to do with RY4 a "a sweet tobacco with undertones of caramel and vanilla"?

Might this be the only e-liquid approved? Dirty Ashtray - eLiquid Flavor

Dirty Ashtray. A blend of 8 tobacco varieties with a hint of a Real Analog.

The flavor is very realistic to the flavor of a burning cigarette, very similar to the taste of a re-lit cigarette after it has been put out.
 

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