Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Robino1]

BTW - Here is some Encouraging dialog about it being the Delivery Mechanism (the Smoke) that is at the Root of the Problem with Combustible tobacco Products.

"But the nicotine in cigarettes is not directly responsible for the cancer, lung disease, and heart disease that kill hundreds of thousands of Americans each year. Yes, it got them all addicted and kept them addicted for the long term. And it got most of them addicted when they were still teenagers. But it’s the other chemical compounds in tobacco, and in the smoke created by setting tobacco on fire, that directly and primarily cause the illness and death, not the nicotine.

So we need to take a fresh look at nicotine itself, and how the addiction that it causes relates to the potential harm of its delivery mechanism.

Nicotine is by no means a completely safe and benign compound. But a family and population-focused approach to reducing tobacco-caused disease and death must start from the premise that, as far as nicotine is concerned, the problem isn’t just the nicotine. The bigger problem is the delivery mechanism -- how the nicotine gets delivered. Attach it to smoke particles created by burning cigarettes and the mechanism is deadly. But attach the very same nicotine to a medicinal product without the other chemicals found in tobacco products and these therapeutic products have been found to be safe and effective by FDA in helping smokers quit. In fact, for nicotine replacement products such as gum, lozenges and patches, FDA doesn’t even require a doctor’s prescription for them."

Protecting American Families: Comprehensive Approach to Nicotine and Tobacco

This is awesome! Thank you

 

[HBcorpse]

Looks like they may still go after flavors:
"We will re-double our efforts to protect kids from all nicotine-containing products. This has to include looking at the role of kid-appealing flavors, because kids shouldn’t be using any of these products. So going forward I am asking the Center for Tobacco Products to develop an Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to address the issue of flavored tobacco products and kids. This will be just one of the new proposed rulemakings and policy actions we are committing to today, in order to start the process for defining how we intend to properly regulate the deemed products."

So when do they launch their campaign against Smirnoff for having their rainbow of candy/dessert flavored vodkas?

If flavors are only aimed at kids, I can't understand why Smirnoff hasn't come under fire.

Except that maybe Smirnoff isn't an American company...I haven't checked.

 

[Robino1]

Looks like they may still go after flavors:
"We will re-double our efforts to protect kids from all nicotine-containing products. This has to include looking at the role of kid-appealing flavors, because kids shouldn’t be using any of these products. So going forward I am asking the Center for Tobacco Products to develop an Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to address the issue of flavored tobacco products and kids. This will be just one of the new proposed rulemakings and policy actions we are committing to today, in order to start the process for defining how we intend to properly regulate the deemed products."

Hopefully it will come down on HOW the flavors are branded not so much on the flavors themselves.

I mean, come on, flavor names that mimic cereals that are targeted to kids.

 

[Bronze]

Hopefully it will come down on HOW the flavors are branded not so much on the flavors themselves.

I mean, come on, flavor names that mimic cereals that are targeted to kids.

Indeed. Flavors are subjective. The names not as much. But I still think Cap'n Crunch is a cool dude.

 

[Eskie]

Ah, here's the reason this speech was given right now,

I want to emphasize that all of the steps I’ve outlined today are intended to work together as a package deal. One federal court recently upheld the Agency’s authority over newly deemed products. Each component of this broader plan builds on the deeming rule and is part of an overall effort to reduce the adverse effects of cigarettes, create clearer guideposts for the regulation of all products, and account for the role of all noncombustible products.

Waiting for and relying on Judge Jackon's decision. I guess with that said, if these proposals do kick in, the plaintiffs might very well save themselves the expense of an appeal. The flip side is there is now no real legislative pressure to change the deeming date or e cig specific regulation, as this just removed the issue from the table. Which isn't great as yes, somewhere in the future, rules could again be changed.

 

[stols001]

I doubt that they'll reduce nic entirely. But, if the nicotine is reduced, there may be more smokers willing to look at switching. The public perception is that nicotine is the culprit in cigarettes, and I think without it there, it would be much harder to smoke all the other stuff.... Possibly.

That said, I think so far things are sounding reasonable. Like I said, I really hope this pushes more smokers to convert to vaping.... rather than more harmful things. Fingers crossed. Though, even as a former smoker, who maybe knew a bit about the legislation, hopefully some smokers will have a hard time with Going First as it were, leaving them the option to try to vape. I really, really hope so.

I've smoked herbal cigarettes, they weren't illegal or anything, just probably the nichiest product ever. I did not finish the pack, smoking was gross without the nicotine and other biproducts... Smoking is NO FUN if there's little or no nicotine.... I've smoked cigarettes that were so "light" that I tore off the filter and just smoked IT. A homeless dude asked for one and I gave him half the pack, LOL. I was stuck at the grocery store with my keys in the car, without cigs (stressful). But, the ultralights I accidentally bought were AWFUL.

So I guess we will see what transpires.... FDA, I'm going to stop being mean to you at present

Anna

 

[leftyandsparky]

This news makes me feel a little better! Just wondering how much will we be hit with taxes?

 

[mikepetro]

Hopefully it will come down on HOW the flavors are branded not so much on the flavors themselves.

I mean, come on, flavor names that mimic cereals that are targeted to kids.

Just buy unflavored ejuice and add your own flavor, not a big deal.

The very fact that they are backing up and rethinking this is HUGE progress.

 

[Eskie]

Hopefully it will come down on HOW the flavors are branded not so much on the flavors themselves.

I mean, come on, flavor names that mimic cereals that are targeted to kids.

And all those candy graphics on labels? Still, the issue here is to consider where kids will get their vape stuff in the first place. If we're talking about gas station/convenience store cigalikes or even non-refillable eGos, that's less of a problem. If it's stuff a "responsible adult" got for them (or their own fake ID, face it, kids do it all the time) in a vape shop, then yes, the names and graphics are an issue that I can understand folks not liking.

The middle ground of rules on naming, labeling, and marketing can be done without necessarily removing the flavorings themselves from the marketplace. It'll be interesting to see how that lays out.

 

[mikepetro]

Just the title in the FDA's news-brief "Extending Timelines to Encourage Innovations" implies that grandfather dates are being seriously questioned. How can you have innovation if you freeze it at 2007 tech.

 

[mikepetro]

"FDA intends to develop product standards to protect against known public health risks such as electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) battery issues."

This could be a double edged sword depending on how they implement it.

 

[Robino1]

Ah, here's the reason this speech was given right now,


Waiting for and relying on Judge Jackon's decision. I guess with that said, if these proposals do kick in, the plaintiffs might very well save themselves the expense of an appeal. The flip side is there is now no real legislative pressure to change the deeming date or e cig specific regulation, as this just removed the issue from the table. Which isn't great as yes, somewhere in the future, rules could again be changed.

Which is why we can't let up on pressuring our Reps to get behind us.

Maybe, just maybe, with this new stance the FDA is taking, more will be willing to get behind us.

So many of our Reps cited the previous FDA's stance in their .... ugly canned responses.

 

[Eskie]

Just buy unflavored ejuice and add your own flavor, not a big deal.

The very fact that they are backing up and rethinking this is HUGE progress.

True, certainly for anyone around here. But if your goal is to truly embrace harm reduction, you want the products to hold some appeal to drive smokers over. Handing a current smoker a tank of unflavored juice is unlikely to result in a convert. One thing I was happy to see Gottlieb discuss is the continuum of harm, not just absolute safety. Which means there can very well be circumstances where may not be elimination, but still be preferable to the use of combustible tobacco.

"FDA intends to develop product standards to protect against known public health risks such as electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) battery issues."

This could be a double edged sword depending on how they implement it.

Product standards could include built in protection circuits that satisfy say UL listing requirements, or might end up being the end of replaceable batteries. I guess we'll have to wait that one out.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Doesn't surprise me at all.

You were far more prescient than I, I had not such idea. Sometimes it is good to be wrong, this is one.

 

[Bonskibon]

Best thing I've read since Aug. 8th last year. Still so many unknowns, but at least we get more time. Hoping for the best.

 

[sofarsogood]

Gottlieb says the deeming regulations will be delayed. If that holds may be we're off the hook for a while. I have a bit more to go with the stockpile. Nothing changes that plan.

 

[mikepetro]

I have to admit, I am shocked myself, but pleasantly so.

 

[Eskie]

Battery follow up, at least as it currently stands on the FDA website (which means it's likely to be changed after that speech.

You may have heard that e-cigarettes, or "vapes," can explode and seriously injure people. Although they appear rare, these explosions are dangerous. The exact causes of such incidents are not yet clear, but some evidence suggests that battery-related issues may lead to vape explosions. The safety tips below may help you avoid a vape battery explosion. Please report a vape explosion or any other unexpected health or safety issue with a vape to the FDA.

Followed by a whole bunch of safety tips that folks might have already read, but do talk about replaceable battery safety steps. You can find it here Tips to Help Avoid "Vape" Battery Explosions

 

[oplholik]

And, word has just come that RTS is out of business, there web site closed down. The good news a little late for them I guess.

 

[Opinionated]

Here is my comment on flavors - my son is 33 and came across a pop rocks watermelon e juice, he WANTS to try it.. he's 33, remembers and loves pop rocks and loves candy and sweet and sour flavors..

People might look at the packaging and think "omg they are marketing to kids" but it was first the packaging that made my son read the description and desire the product.

It's like alcohol that is sweet and candy flavored.. marketing is for adults who like flavors and remember their childhood and want to try stuff..

Taste and smell are the strongest memory inducing senses ... People LIKE remembering the good and nice things from their childhood.. no matter their age, and taste and smell brings them back momentarily to their childhood.

I disagree with people who think these things are being marketed to kids, they are being marketed in such a way as to attract the attention of the adults who once loved these things..