Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

Robino1

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If I understand it correctly, the two years only exist if the paperwork and money required are given to the FDA in the next 90 days. I haven't attempted to read the regs., but that is what it looks like from the posts I've read.

Actually, from what I am understanding, vendors have 2 years to get the paperwork together and apply. After they apply, they have a year before the application is either accepted or rejected. Until they hear either way, they can still sell. So about 3 years total. Best case.

The 90 days is for the Child safety, labeling and No New Products can be introduced into the market. Example, no new flavors. No new tanks. No new mods.
 

wiredlove

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Their sale is regulated because their use is regulated.


If the deeming regs are not modifeid the FDA will not need extra manpower to police anything.
5 years down the road after the states initiate taxation part of this process will require them
to define what they are taxing which would be at minimum an exact definition of what the
Federal definition is. The result of this is the states would be doing the policing instead of the Feds.



IMHO I believe it wise to assume the worst case interpretation of what battery is or is not
covered under the regs. Hope fro the best of course.

See my above response to the Zoidman.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
Mike:
While I don't disagree, I don't usually get my 18650s from vape places. I purchase them from battery vendors and flashlight vendors. I also happen to have a couple of $200+ 4 battery 18650 flashlights. Those are driving that market. We ride on their coat tails. Also, fwiw, they use high amp 18650s in a -lot- of cordless power tools and laptop computers. That doesn't even include Evolv pushing the RC batteries.
 

zoiDman

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Naah will likely buy a couple more liters of nic in the next month or so.

they way things are going hope I am not alive by 82 anyway. Would be a miserable existence.

You can always put them in your Will if the Sand in the Glass runs out Sooner than the Nicotine.
 

Robert Cromwell

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Actually, from what I am understanding, vendors have 2 years to get the paperwork together and apply. After they apply, they have a year before the application is either accepted or rejected. Until they hear either way, they can still sell. So about 3 years total. Best case.

The 90 days is for the Child safety, labeling and No New Products can be introduced into the market. Example, no new flavors. No new tanks. No new mods.
Yep so 2 years since not very many will apply.

Unless things change of course, A lot can change in 2 years.
 

Robert Cromwell

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Mike:
While I don't disagree, I don't usually get my 18650s from vape places. I purchase them from battery vendors and flashlight vendors. I also happen to have a couple of $200+ 4 battery 18650 flashlights. Those are driving that market. We ride on their coat tails. Also, fwiw, they use high amp 18650s in a -lot- of cordless power tools and laptop computers. That doesn't even include Evolv pushing the RC batteries.
Yep batteries with labels on them for vaping will be illegal but regular batteries will be available if not bought from a place specializing in vaping equipment.

In the documents the "batteries" they seem to be referring to mods either Variable or fixed.
 
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440BB

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I have no doubt they will mean business. There is a vendor here that a couple of years ago said he was raided by no nonsense federal agents with guns drawn. What initially was divulged of it sounded Orwellian. He abruptly quit talking about it. He is still in business so I assume his lawyer took care of it and for legal reasons or federal pressure was told not to speak of it again. I'm sure some of you know whom I'm talking about and most likely more of the story than I do.
I've always wondered about that story, but I do have two liters of his nic in my freezer lol.
 

wiredlove

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Yep batteries with labels on them for vaping will be illegal but regular batteries will be available if not bought from a place specializing in vaping equipment.

In the documents the "batteries" they seem to be referring to mods either Variable or fixed.

I can solder and desolder like the best of them. ;)
 

zoiDman

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Actually, from what I am understanding, vendors have 2 years to get the paperwork together and apply. After they apply, they have a year before the application is either accepted or rejected. Until they hear either way, they can still sell. So about 3 years total. Best case.

The 90 days is for the Child safety, labeling and No New Products can be introduced into the market. Example, no new flavors. No new tanks. No new mods.

With all the Horrible things the FDA and the CDC has said about e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids, and with all the Slanted Statistics they have used, I find it Very Unusual that they would just allow Business as usual for the Next 2 Years.

And allow Anyone to sell any type of e-Liquids with only 18+ and some Packaging Changes.

Just Doesn't seem like the Same FDA that we have been talking about for the Last 1700 Posts.

o_O
 

The Ocelot

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I wonder if these will still be sold? You can buy them online and in "vintage" candy stores.

candy%20cigs.jpg
 

wiredlove

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With all the Horrible things the FDA and the CDC has said about e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids, and will all the Slanted Statistics they have used, I find it Very Unusual that they would just allow Business as usual for the Next 2 Years.

And allow Anyone to sell any type of e-Liquids with only 18+ and some Packaging Changes.

Just Doesn't seem like the Same FDA that we have been talking about for the Last 1700 Posts.

o_O
They're going to enforce using love, hugs, and cuddles and will try to talk it out in reasonable terms. I'm sure of it.
 

zoiDman

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Would not be legal to give it to anyone.
perhaps someone will use it to kill bugs?

I have All my Nicotine Base labeled "Ant Poison" just in case someone Breaks into my house and just happens to be a Vaper also.

gourmet2size600.jpg
 

Kent C

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nicnik

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A Few Months? I can't even Remember what I had for Lunch Yesterday.

And they say Nicotine is a Mental Enhancer. Go Figure.
The FDA would say this is evidence of your having been exposed to nicotine in your teens, and the resulting brain damage.

Nicotine causes permanent damage in young brains

http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/lifestyle/news/nicotine-causes-permanent-brain-damage
 

kross8

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That's the catch : PMTA

The A stands for Application , not for Approval.

Means you front serious money and the FDA still can turn your application down for not dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's. And they can drag their heels about giving you an answer till doomsday too.

Then you're out of money and out of a product to sell.
Unless you're one of the B's with a few dozen millions to burn.

IMO that's way way too much power in the hands of one single government agency. Especially when that very same agency isn't really concerned about the well-being of you and me. Government is supposed to govern.
Means putting checks and balances into place to prevent exactly that : one branch getting too much power.

'Deeming' - nailing nicotine-free juice as 'tabcco products' : 2+2=5

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two makes four.
If that is granted, all else follows
(George Orwell '1984')
the FDA is bankrupt morally and financially,, the vaping community has to bail them out........lol
 

Wingsfan0310

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I'm glad I've been DIY exclusively for years now. I'd hate to try and learn everything I know now in a rush. Lots of experimenting with different flavoring companies, recipes, Nics, etc. I also wrap my own coils and can repair my mods as needed. I'm not really worried about myself, but am worried about others who would like to quit smoking and won't be as fortunate as some of us are. This is really sad!

Cheers,
Steve
 

salemgold

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This is a copy and paste from another person at FB.

Quick and dirty notes from the SFATA teleconference:
1) 0mg juice does not count as tobacco, and is basically therefor not affected by these new regs
2) because of #1, the ban on samples and testers will also not apply to 0mg juice. No more free juice giveaways or testers in store unless its 0mg, but 0mg is ok for the time being until the devices are regulated in 2 years
3) online selling of juice seems to be regulated less than face to face sales. This does not affect anyone who makes their own juice or hardware, as you are still held to the standard of a tobacco manufacturer. But for those who simply buy and resell, its ok. This point is unclear and will require more study of the regulations.
4) Clarification has been made that state laws that specifically say that ecigs are not tobacco are superseded by the new regulations. The Federal Government says its tobacco, so it doesn't matter what the states say.
5) clarification that if stores tell customers "you can add nicotine to this 0mg juice", that 0mg juice then becomes a tobacco accessory and falls under the FDA's regulatory power.
6) non tobacco extracted nicotine (such as eggplant nicotine or synthetic nicotine) will most likely not count as tobacco, but SFATA expects that the FDA would respond by saying that nicotine itself is a drug and close the loophole by regulating it as a drug delivery device.
7) SFATA will be releasing a "FDA regs for dummys" document next week, explaining all these shenanigans to those of us who are not lawyers or politicians. Even though the regs state that ecig juice and hardware is classified as tobacco, the states will all have to specifically tax and license retailers for ecig stuff. It is not included automatically.
9) out of country hardware manufacturers are still required to get FDA approval for ecig stuff. Generic items like batteries are exempt since they're not specifically made for ecig use.
10) If you are a straight retailer, who only buys product from other companies to resell, the only things the regs means to you is that you must ID everyone, and cannot alter products, and will most likely have to register as a tobacco retailer in your state. Also there will be no sampling. So you can't let the customer sample the juice before they buy it.
11) Building coils counts as altering a product, which makes it a new product, and since it's a tobacco accessory, building coils makes you a tobacco manufacturer.
12) 90 days starts the law, any products not for sale in the market will require a PMTA
13) No free samples
14) 2 years to file your PMTA, 1 year to get an approval, if no approval is received within the 12 months following you will have to remove your product from the market while you wait for FDA approval
15) Mandatory ID, Child Proof Caps, Warning Labels and Marketing Ban go into effect in 90 days
16) Litigation is HIGHLY unlikely to be successful and SFATA strongly suggests against it.
17) Software upgrades to mods would need a PMTA
18) Verbiage on how we talk about e-cigarettes have to change: no longer healthier, not smokeless, not a way to quit smoking, etc..
 

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