Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Appears I'm not the only one that stood out to.

Sounds like they are saying they are leaving the consumers who diy and build their own alone....for now...

 

[zoiDman]

I get what you're saying. So a quick rubber-stamping, if they can do that, would move the process along faster.

I think Many In Congress, and about Every State, is kinda Fed Up with how LONG this has taken already. There are Also Many who want to Stand at the Podium when this is done and tell their Constituents how they Just saved all those Children by approving the FDA Regulations. (Never pass up a Photo Op.)

So I think this going to Congress and getting put on a Back Burner until it Automatically Passes is Not very Likely.

 

[Jman8]

Excellent article here: When two tribes go to war

Didn't even think of the role reversal that England now plays in relation to US/World vaping rights. Kinda glad now that's the way things are. Wish it wasn't this way to begin with. But it does present another, highly prominent chance for resolution to the mess, and incorporates the scientific aspect.

 

[Katya]

Didn't even think of the role reversal that England now plays in relation to US/World vaping rights. Kinda glad now that's the way things are. Wish it wasn't this way to begin with. But it does present another, highly prominent chance for resolution to the mess, and incorporates the scientific aspect.

I blame those Puritans...

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Sounds like they are saying they are leaving the consumers who diy and build their own alone....for now...

Sounds like more than that to me. Almost like "For now we aren't going to enforce lack of a PMTA on anything but a complete ecig ready to vape" (cigalike)

Am I crazy here?

Course they could change that tomorrow if they so desire.

Edit: perhaps that is just to clarify whom has to have the PMTA?

 

[The Eciginator]

Based on what I've seen and read, the general (ignorant) public is 100% behind the FDA action, so don't expect any candidate to go against it...

 

[Katya]

Hey, was doing some in depth late night reading. Digest this and tell me if you think this means what I think it might mean:

(Comment 26) Many comments stated that a requirement to prepare PMTAs for all of the many parts and components that go into some of the newly deemed tobacco products would create an effective ban of these products.

(Response) The definition of a tobacco product includes components and parts, and these products are subject to the automatic provisions of the FD&C Act, including premarket authorization requirements. However, at this time, FDA intends to limit enforcement of the premarket authorization provisions to finished tobacco products. In this context, a finished tobacco product refers to a tobacco product, including all components and parts, sealed in final packaging intended for consumer use (e.g., filters or filter tubes sold separately to consumers or as part of kits). For example, an e-liquid sealed in final packaging that is to be sold or distributed to a consumer for use in a finished tobacco product will be subject to enforcement if it is on the market without authorization. In contrast, an e-liquid that is sold or distributed for further
manufacturing into a finished ENDS product is not itself a finished tobacco product. At this time, FDA does not intend to enforce the premarket authorization requirements against such eliquids or other components and parts of newly deemed products that are sold or distributed solely for further manufacturing without a marketing order.

I can't digest any more, but I assure you that there are many, many passages in the document that contradict the above passage. The whole thing is just revolting and if we don't move that grandfather date, we're screwed. Even Zeller said a few days ago that he had no idea if any e-cigarettes would be approved...

Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

 

[Jman8]

That's Marshal Zeller, now.

Sheriff, appointed to rope in the Wild West Industry and settle Vaping into the Dust once and for all. No good

I find it interesting that this particular sheriff will be responsible for making the West even wilder when the black market emerges.

It's the type of things legacies are made of.

 

[nicnik]

Based on what I've seen and read, the general (ignorant) public is 100% behind the FDA action, so don't expect any candidate to go against it...

It could become a hot issue in some State and local elections, and I'm hoping it will.

 

[The Ocelot]

(Screwtape didn't have the post count to link a url. I fixed it.)

"Screwtape, post: 17702341, member: 225031"]Here's something relevant from the SSRN:

January 1, 2015

Case Legal Studies Research Paper No. 2015-3

Abstract:
Electronic cigarettes pose competitive threats to the makers of traditional cigarettes and nicotine replacement therapies such as nicotine gum and patches. It is no surprise that these producers, and the governments that earn revenue from tobacco taxes, respond by seeking controls on the competition. Similarly, despite evidence that e-cigarettes may be beneficial in helping tobacco smokers quit, assorted public health researchers and groups have attacked e-cigarettes as a health danger. This episode allows application of the Bootlegger and Baptist theory of regulation. Diverse groups, not necessarily working together, and with different motives, share in a goal of limiting how e-cigarettes enter the market. Those who profit from the current tobacco market structure and some health advocates plead for politicians and regulators to restrict the new product.


Bootleggers, Baptists, and E-Cigarettes by Bruce Yandle, Roger E. Meiners, Jonathan H. Adler, Andrew P. Morriss :: SSRN

 

[buffaloguy]

This is why we need more political parties in the USA. Or at least real citizens running for office that are not hand picked for us by the state and local dem/repub party flunkies.

It would be more effective to have vapers be on ballots for the mid term elections in two years to overturn this nonsense.

I'd like to see big tobacco or pharma lobbying am elected vaper for support. Not gonna happen.

 

[nicnik]

Am I crazy here?

You're not the crazy one. FDA is.

 

[The Ocelot]

There will prolly be a software update for my Evic VTC Mini upgrading it to 200 watts before August 8?

After August 8 the internet is a tobacco product.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Based on what I've seen and read, the general (ignorant) public is 100% behind the FDA action, so don't expect any candidate to go against it...

I was quite dismayed earlier at something myself. The LP posted about it on FB and I glanced through the first hundred or so comments. Now remember that Libertarians should be almost in 100% (if not 100%) agreement with us. About 1 out of 15 of those comments were against ecigarettes and for the deeming and showed a total swollowing of media lies. Unless those comments against ecigs were by trolls who follow the LP's FB page I was flabbergasted.

 

[sparkky1]

A post 2 or 3 pages back, and another one somewhere, said the FDA doesn't charge fees, and the expenses are from preparing the application. I think that's correct.

Seriously, 330,000 per ml / battery / per any single component for prep ?
El Chapo much ?

 

[Goodrat]

Imagine the FDA decided that the beer and wine market and all the varieties have gotten out of hand and this might entice under aged drinking. They decide that only beer and wine present in 1908 can be sold and vineyards, brewers, distributors and retailers had 90 days to sell their current inventory. Any new products would have to pay 100’s of thousands of dollars for an approval process for each variation in flavor or recipe and cost millions. Containers, cardboard. openers, corkscrews, mugs, bottles, corks and caps will also have to be tested for safety since they are part of the end product. Any flavor name a child may be attracted to may be banned. Any claims of being less harmful than moonshine would need rigorous testing that could take years for approval.
This is what they did to e-cigs. Welcome to America.

 

[nicnik]

I was quite dismayed earlier at something myself. The LP posted about it on FB and I glanced through the first hundred or so comments. Now remember that Libertarians should be almost in 100% (if not 100%) agreement with us. About 1 out of 15 of those comments were against ecigarettes and for the deeming and showed a total swollowing of media lies. Unless those comments against ecigs were by trolls who follow the LP's FB page I was flabbergasted.

Right, they probably are people who follow them because they are anti-Libertarian Party. I hope, anyway, 'cause, yeah, more than a bit disturbing, if they're Libertarians and have drunk the ANTZ Kool-Aid.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Sounds like more than that to me. Almost like "For now we aren't going to enforce lack of a PMTA on anything but a complete ecig ready to vape" (cigalike)

Am I crazy here?

Course they could change that tomorrow if they so desire.

Edit: perhaps that is just to clarify whom has to have the PMTA?

Yes you are right. If ejuice vendors only sell the parts for everything needed but do not put them together then it is not an ENDS product( at least that is how it reads).
And since individual users are not selling the product but using it, then it is out of their control.

May be just the loop hole we need.

 

[nicnik]

Seriously, 330,000 per ml / battery / per any single component for prep ?
El Chapo much ?

Did you maybe think I said "processing the application" rather than "preparing" it? The expenses would be for testing (not by the FDA), and legal fees in writing up the application, etc.

 

[paulw2014]

Based on what I've seen and read, the general (ignorant) public is 100% behind the FDA action, so don't expect any candidate to go against it...

Even if more people support the FDA action, the people against it are waaaay more passionate. That has to be taken into account in any battle.

The FDA rules now are too extreme and I have a feeling some compromise will have to be made eventually. Lawsuits will be filed for sure and the report by Royal College of Physicians can only help.