"Packaging" isnt the issue, its only the drama du jour.
This whole deeming, and them trying to regulate (over regulate) it is the issue.
Dont let packaging distract you from the real fight.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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This whole deeming, and them trying to regulate (over regulate) it is the issue.
Dont let packaging distract you from the real fight.
I still don't see how we fight BS by saying that it's true.
I just read the statement by the AVA... does anyone really think those companies are targeting children? Being dumb about IP and copyrights, sure, but "predatory marketing?" Really?
I just read the statement by the AVA... does anyone really think those companies are targeting children? Being dumb about IP and copyrights, sure, but "predatory marketing?" Really?
Honestly, it's going to take lots of money AND marketing. We are going to have to have someone or some group able and willing to create pro-vaping propaganda/facts and publish, display, and advertise it everywhere possible. Billboards, magazines, radio, TV, newspapers, everywhere. Unless we change the perspective of the masses this is going to be a lost cause. The only way to do that is using the same tactics of our adversaries. In essence we have to find ways of saying what has been said in this thread in VERY public places and ways.
Doesn't Distract me at all. Because I know where the Real Fight is Headed.
And I also know Who we are going to Need to Fight on Our Side. And what Can and Can Not be asked of them.
That's what makes me mad.. I don't believe any of this is targeting children and I don't agree with agreeing with the anti vapers on this issue to make us "appear" caring... it dumb.
I've yet to walk into a vape shop where they don't require you to be 18 to even walk into..
I've yet to see the type of ejuice with cagey packaging to be sold in a convenience store (although I don't live in a city so these big cities might be different I don't know)
They are after the entire vaping industry and they intend to break it one step at a time..agreeing with those trying to destroy us is ignorant at best because it's just helping them.
ExactlyWe need MLB sluggers on a little league budget though.
There are several Vaping organizations (such as CASSA) that, to a degree, are at least Minor League sluggers in our corner. IMHO they do a LOT to fight legislation which is great, but they NEED to add a media/propaganda wing to their portfolio. Like I said if 80% of the country is convinced that "vaping is worse that smoking" then we will lose, eventually. We can't change people's minds if they never hear the truth, yet changing the minds of the masses is exactly what has to happen. The only way to do this is to make sure the voice of truth is at LEAST as loud as the lies.
Shared in Tobacco Harm Reduction 4 Life group 2 hours ago. I just got notified now.
Here's the non-FB version. It's from Consumers For Advocacy group.
A frightening picture and a response from one of our own.
A emotional response from Albert Michael Harper.
"As you sit there contemplating what to do with your irresponsible lables, they are thinking what they can do to the entire industry.
This pic scares me to death. It's almost just too self defeating to comment further. This makes me question what I do. Then I remember the smoker and those that are doing it right. I'm fighting for them. Not the unjustified irresponsibility of those that are so self righteous they consider the dollar more valuable then the cost of a living soul. Not to mention 40, 000, 000 of them. I'm begging consumers and industry alike. Please help put a end to this madness. Take action together and we can help this life saving industry remain available in the future. Now more the ever the Industry needs it's lobbying effort in full gear. Not only in Washington but on a state level as well. They are coming for you full swing. From a consumer standpoint, please put your money where your mouth is so we can continue to buy from you, the responsible vendor/shop/ and manufacturer. "
Here's the non-FB version. It's from Consumers For Advocacy group.
A frightening picture and a response from one of our own.
A emotional response from Albert Michael Harper.
"As you sit there contemplating what to do with your irresponsible lables, they are thinking what they can do to the entire industry.
This pic scares me to death. It's almost just too self defeating to comment further. This makes me question what I do. Then I remember the smoker and those that are doing it right. I'm fighting for them. Not the unjustified irresponsibility of those that are so self righteous they consider the dollar more valuable then the cost of a living soul. Not to mention 40, 000, 000 of them. I'm begging consumers and industry alike. Please help put a end to this madness. Take action together and we can help this life saving industry remain available in the future. Now more the ever the Industry needs it's lobbying effort in full gear. Not only in Washington but on a state level as well. They are coming for you full swing. From a consumer standpoint, please put your money where your mouth is so we can continue to buy from you, the responsible vendor/shop/ and manufacturer. "
Shared in Tobacco Harm Reduction 4 Life group 2 hours ago. I just got notified now.
Here's the non-FB version. It's from Consumers For Advocacy group.
A frightening picture and a response from one of our own.
A emotional response from Albert Michael Harper.
"As you sit there contemplating what to do with your irresponsible lables, they are thinking what they can do to the entire industry.
This pic scares me to death. It's almost just too self defeating to comment further. This makes me question what I do. Then I remember the smoker and those that are doing it right. I'm fighting for them. Not the unjustified irresponsibility of those that are so self righteous they consider the dollar more valuable then the cost of a living soul. Not to mention 40, 000, 000 of them. I'm begging consumers and industry alike. Please help put a end to this madness. Take action together and we can help this life saving industry remain available in the future. Now more the ever the Industry needs it's lobbying effort in full gear. Not only in Washington but on a state level as well. They are coming for you full swing. From a consumer standpoint, please put your money where your mouth is so we can continue to buy from you, the responsible vendor/shop/ and manufacturer. "
I don't understand why they don't explain how it's NOT advertising to 7 year olds instead of claiming it's indefensible marketing to minors.
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Because the vaping industry suffers from battered spouse syndrome. They call it tobacco, but that's okay, really they're just trying to save it from pharmaceutical regulations. Maybe if we limit the nicotine content they'll accept us. Maybe if we don't have packaging that can be considered as marketing to children they'll accept us. Maybe if the flavors don't have silly names they'll accept us. Maybe if the flavors are more "adult" they'll accept us. Maybe if we support age restrictions they'll accept us. Maybe if we agree to pay taxes they'll accept us.
We can't negotiate, we're not at the table.
Because putting logos and slogans and pictures that you bloody well know are gonna tweak the politicos on a label is stupid. It's akin to wading through a piranha infested stream wearing a Speedo constructed of a freshly sliced porterhouse steak and wondering why you're being eaten alive.
Granted, if the labels are altered, they'll find something else to complain about, but gift wrapping the ammo they need to crucify us is insane.
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Granted, if the labels are altered, they'll find something else to complain about, but gift wrapping the ammo they need to crucify us is insane.
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To me that's not gift wrapped ammo any more than Juul is gift wrapped ammo.
All that is required to be ammo in the save the children camp is sales of any kind of to adults.. and the more sales to adults there are, the more they try to make it their ammo of the day.
Does the allegedly-popular-with-the-youths-vape, the Juul, have any packaging that could be misconstrued as appealing to minors?
I'd argue that's as bland as it gets before allowing only 1880s typewriter print and no images at all.
The packaging isn't a real world problem. Imo it's a red herring that keeps the vape industry and advocates wasting energy on the wrong topics.
Not sure about that. I can think of some dudes that would scare away the piranhas if they were wearing a speedo...no matter what they were made of.
So basically your of the opinion that anything the anti vapers hold up as "proof" that vaping is bad should stop being made or sold.
So, no more sweet dessert flavors.
No more cute names for ejuice.
No more low wattage high nicotine devices.
No more cute packaging to remind someone of flavors they enjoyed in their youth.
No more flavors of any kind unless its tobacco.
No more access to low wattage vape products in gas stations or convenience stores..
Big tobacco should be the only ones allowed to sell vaping devices.
There should only be allowed closed systems for vaping.
All vape products should have integrated batteries
Did I miss anything? We are saving the children after all and agreeing not to do anything "bad"...
No, but they're being touted as discrete... Stealthy... What's the chance you, as a child, could sneak a Smok GX350 with a TFV12 Cloud Beast King into a room and take a toot with no one noticing? Now, try it with a device designed to look like an oversized thumb drive... Something most every kid likely already has in their possession.Does the allegedly-popular-with-the-youths-vape, the Juul, have any packaging that could be misconstrued as appealing to minors?
I'd argue that's as bland as it gets before allowing only 1880s typewriter print and no images at all.
The packaging isn't a real world problem. Imo it's a red herring that keeps the vape industry and advocates wasting energy on the wrong topics.
Look, again, I get it. The ANTZ are gonna go after anything that they can latch on to to protect their nest egg (big tobacco money). I just don't see why we, as an industry, have to give them any ammo to shoot at us with...
Wait... Did I just dangle my participle... Maybe...
Because as you said yourself, they'll ALWAYS find something else to complain about. They will always move the goalposts because their goal is to reduce the vaping industry to something easily regulated and taxed. This should not come as a surprise to anyone, this thread was started May 5, 2016 and they told us their gameplan on that day. Vapor products are tobacco products and will be regulated exactly the same way cigarettes are, and in the end, the only FDA allowed products will resemble what is available in the cigarette world.
Either we fight it, or we let them chip away at it slowly, or in some cases cheer it on.
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