Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Yeah... And Say Hello to vape mail which can Only be received with Adult Signature and ID.

Maybe true, but if you know your post person or head master at the PO, it really becomes a mute point. Companies just want a signature to cover their asses in the event of being questioned about age practices. This is really a non starter for me, not worth getting up in arms about.

 

[untar]

I urge those who struggle with the notion of no flavors to PLEASE try unflavored. Thats what I vape 80% of the time, and it really is quite satisfying once you adjust to it.

I tried several times, the longest was 2 weeks. Never could get used to it, no satisfaction in it for me. It's not for everyone, I'd even say it's not for the majority of vapers. Though I don't believe long time vapers will have a problem, DIY is easy and flavors will be available. Maybe not from vape shops but they won't be gone as the main manufacturers produce and sell tonnes every day, the vape industry is a small fry to them.

It is certainly a better option than going back to the stinkies

Try to convince smokers to switch with unflavored liquid... sure there may be some really desperate ones that can do it but I'd be surprised to see as big a success rate as there is now. To those I know personally, me included, flavors were a major point in switching.

Then there's all the millions of vapers that already stopped smoking and enjoy vaping. I have no plans to stop vaping, it's part of my life and adds to my day. Same with coffee. Should we look forward to a tasteless caffeine solution next?

 

[Ceejay0875]

The logic from the FDA seems somewhat off beam here.
1. Surely if these kids weren't vaping they would be smoking?
2. They are assuming these kids will go on to smoke cigarettes and surely they will stay as vapers.
I can see the concern but surely it better to create a new set of vape users than cig users. This ''epidemic'' has the ability to mostly wipe out 'big tobacco' in a generation or two.
I hope you guys work it out. I'm from the UK but live in France.

I think the fda is setting up a self fulfilling prophecy: take the stuff off the market and then when the kiddies (and others who use those products who haven't branched off to others, or diy if they take away flavors) go back to cigarettes all we're gonna see all over the media is "See, they all moved from vapes to cigs!"

 

[BillW50]

I see an unregulated black market coming. And the FDA thinks this is better?

 

[charlie1465]

I think the fda is setting up a self fulfilling prophecy: take the stuff off the market and then when the kiddies (and others who use those products who haven't branched off to others, or diy if they take away flavors) go back to cigarettes all we're gonna see all over the media is "See, they all moved from vapes to cigs!"

This is often the problem with organisations that specifically look at safety issues. The 'brains' there get institutionalised and they start coming up with regs based on flawed ideas and logic...it's the same all over the world.

 

[zoiDman]

Maybe true, but if you know your post person or head master at the PO, it really becomes a mute point. Companies just want a signature to cover their asses in the event of being questioned about age practices. This is really a non starter for me, not worth getting up in arms about.

It's not really an Issue for me either.

It's just the Next Logical Step of where we are going when the FDA implements policy to curb Underage e-Cigarette use.

 

[CMD-Ky]

They don't get to contribute either, I suppose, anymore than any other "interest" would. Special or not.
The idea is nobody gets to buy the politicians...they have to answer to the people, and the people's votes count...one per voter, no "corporations are people" necessary.

So long as all groups of people are prohibited from contributing I suppose that I could go along. I might also add that enforcement would not be "selective" and subject to prosecutorial discretion (often a euphemism for discriminatory enforcement). However, so long as we seem to prefer electing the most venal among us to rule over us, a way to be corrupt will always be found. Criminal break laws, passing laws won't stop them.

 

[stols001]

I'm not in love with unflavored and would be less likely to have oh, 14 flavored setups going at one time) but if it came down to it, I'd vape unflavored and probably get used to it.

I have enough flavor for as long as it stays good, though. So several years at least, as well as nic.

If it came down to it, I'd vape unflavored if I had to, and I'd probably get used to it, too. My brain is in things for "effect" and that is about all there is to it. I hated the taste of snus when I started out with it, both my tastebuds and brain have adjusted, frankly, as my brain consistently achieves the needed effect: "nicotine and alkaloids for when I cannot vape."

I would also get very creative (and my guess is, the entire DIY board would get similarly as creative about either making flavor compounds or getting them and turning them into vapable compounds, I like flavors enough to not want to deprive myself completely. It would suck, but I am not giving up vaping quite yet or EVER.

Also @mikepetro , LOL I think I heard a rumor you like pickle juice? I'm not sure your tastebuds can be trusted?

Although yes, if I had to vape unflavored I most certainly would and would probably eventually come to enjoy it as my brain realized it was still getting what it "needed."

I am just not ready to give up on flavors quite yet, (at all possibly) due to the Great Gottleib stating it would be good for our society. Maybe HIS society, but I sort of have this hunch we live in vastly different stratas? Social circles? Etc? I'm quite sure he can get all the Cuban cigars he wants with impunity.

And, Gottleib since we're on the topic, I bet *I* could get Cuban cigars with impunity, if I so desired. Don't want you thinking we are NOT equal, I hear that's what democracy used to be ALL about, LOL. It would just take me longer, I'd probably have to save, and engage in considerable secret research and Machiavellian acts to do it, on a non google search engine which I'm not even going to TELL you what it is, as I don't want you snatching up all MY Cuban cigars. If I wanted them. Which I don't. I'm a vaper now, one who likes flavors, and I can and will ALSO obtain those, if necessary, but I offer up NO Information about how I will do it, it's none of your business.

Also, I feel intensely remorseful for the time I wasted commenting about flavors on your site. It was a complete waste of TIME, and like, don't expect ME to do it again, I'm going COVERT.

Welcome to prohibition. While it sucks, at least it's interesting, etc. MAN ESPECIALLY IN THE EARLY years, if this weren't SO AMORAL AND EVIL I might be the slightest bit excited EXCEPT for my fellow vapers who are perhaps not situated quite like I am.

In conclusion Gottleib I hate you very much. I know you are only doing the bidding of those more powerful than you (not Trump maybe but perhaps more big tobacco) so even you have the gods you have to answer to, but you could make different choices. I've gotten fired for moral reasons before and I GET it sucks, but man you owned part of a vape shop. Think of the good you could have done there if you hadn't like, SOLD IT YOU HYPOCRITICAL CENSORED.

Ahh. Sorry

Anna

 

[ScottP]

Guys, they will only be banning pre-made flavored liquid. They will NOT be banning sales of concentrated FOOD flavorings. So DIY is still going to be possible. I can see us ending up with a solution similar to the UK where people buy unflavored nic and separate "flavor shots" then mix at home by dumping the flavor into the nic bottle. Even then my "guess" is, the first step the FDA implements is a ban on flavors only in pod type closed systems since that is what the "kids" are primarily using.

 

[BillW50]

But ScottP, you will need:

• Graduated beakers
• Gallons of PG/VG
• Liter of 100mg nicotine
• Dozens and dozens of flavors
• Lots of glass bottles

Then you will mix gallons of juice in like 6 months and only 1% of it will taste good enough to vape.

 

[ScottP]

But ScottP, you will need:

• Graduated beakers
• Gallons of PG/VG
• Liter of 100mg nicotine
• Dozens and dozens of flavors
• Lots of glass bottles

Then you will mix gallons of juice in like 6 months and only 1% of it will taste good enough to vape.

 

[Eskie]

Based on the requests for information it appears the targets are Juul, Vuse, Blu, and Mark ten. The last three obviously BT. Then there are the letters to the convenience store chains. No word on vape shops. Also Gottlieb made a sorta funny comment about how older smokers turned vapers use much larger devices that are different from the convenience store/pod system sales. I don't know whether to be reassured or insulted that us old folks aren't in the cool crowd of high school.

 

[Baditude]

Also Gottlieb made a sorta funny comment about how older smokers turned vapers use much larger devices that are different from the convenience store/pod system sales. I don't know whether to be reassured or insulted that us old folks aren't in the cool crowd of high school.

The cool kids can't say...

 

[mikepetro]

Also @mikepetro , LOL I think I heard a rumor you like pickle juice? I'm not sure your tastebuds can be trusted?

.........

In conclusion Gottleib I hate you very much. I know you are only doing the bidding of those more powerful than you (not Trump maybe but perhaps more big tobacco) so even you have the gods you have to answer to, but you could make different choices. I've gotten fired for moral reasons before and I GET it sucks, but man you owned part of a vape shop. Think of the good you could have done there if you hadn't like, SOLD IT YOU HYPOCRITICAL CENSORED.

True that.....

 

[Baditude]

My former store manager had this to say on Face Book today.

"For 6 years I have poured my blood, sweat, and tears into growing the xxxxxxxx stores brand...

Yesterday the fda put out a devastating post putting the industry on notice.

Funny part (well not funny) is in Ohio not one of the over 1k warning letters sent nation wide was a Vape shop. All big box retailers and gas stores.

Feeling pretty puny today. Knowing all OHVTA retailers are doing it right but yet we could be held accountable or gone for a big box not caring

I was with walmart 7 years. What happened with a tobacco violation? The selling person was terminated and a new one was hired.

I dont want my future and the future of all my employees to rest in the hands of what a big box store does."

 

[mikepetro]

But ScottP, you will need:

• Graduated beakers
• Gallons of PG/VG
• Liter of 100mg nicotine
• Dozens and dozens of flavors
• Lots of glass bottles

Then you will mix gallons of juice in like 6 months and only 1% of it will taste good enough to vape.

Alas, there is ALWAYS a learning curve. Plus, for some reason, we Vapers tend to over complicate things, at least at first.

Trust me, after doing DIY for 5 years, I can now whip up several bottles of very tasty juice in 10 minutes or less, including cleanup.

 

[Ceejay0875]

I find it troubling though for smokers wanting to try, my first vape was a cigalike gifted to me from my mother in law, who also used a cigalike when she first quit smoking. Obviously we both moved on to more satisfying products, but I remember my first trip into a vape shop and they tried to get me to switch to an ego twist, and at first I didn't want to cuz to me it looked like a cigar and I just didn't want something that big. If they yank these smaller items from the market how many people will be deterred from making the switch, simply because they want something similar to what they've been using for so long? Kids are always gonna do dumb stuff, so they are either complete idiots, or (as has been previously mentioned and I suspect to be the truth), they want people smoking...paying all those tax dollars, getting sick, using all those high cost meds. So yeah, I will never find myself in the position of not being able to enjoy my vape, but I am upset for those who have yet to start their journey...and those who maybe never will now.

 

[Eskie]

I find it troubling though for smokers wanting to try, my first vape was a cigalike gifted to me from my mother in law, who also used a cigalike when she first quit smoking. Obviously we both moved on to more satisfying products, but I remember my first trip into a vape shop and they tried to get me to switch to an ego twist, and at first I didn't want to cuz to me it looked like a cigar and I just didn't want something that big. If they yank these smaller items from the market how many people will be deterred from making the switch, simply because they want something similar to what they've been using for so long? Kids are always gonna do dumb stuff, so they are either complete idiots, or (as has been previously mentioned and I suspect to be the truth), they want people smoking...paying all those tax dollars, getting sick, using all those high cost meds. So yeah, I will never find myself in the position of not being able to enjoy my vape, but I am upset for those who have yet to start their journey...and those who maybe never will now.

Agreed. That's how I started too. It will be very unfortunate to reduce access to smokers, especially younger smokers who might otherwise have the option of stopping early in their cigarette use history than end up like us 30 or 40 year smokers who have a higher probability of having cigarette related illnesses before we finally stopped.

 

[ScottP]

Alas, there is ALWAYS a learning curve. Plus, for some reason, we Vapers tend to over complicate things, at least at first.

Trust me, after doing DIY for 5 years, I can now whip up several bottles of very tasty juice in 10 minutes or less, including cleanup.

With the UK method I mentioned there really is no learning curve. It is simply buy 2 bottles. One with a nic-free pre-mixed diluted flavoring that comes filled only about 80% of the way to the top, and one that is diluted nic (18mg-20mg or so). You go home open both bottles and dump the nic into the flavor bottle, cap it off and shake. No measuring, no beakers, no gallons of PG/VG, no mass mixing batches, no trial and error, and you still get the same complex flavor profiles you always had.

Here is the "Short Fill Flavoring", which are essentially 50ml of no-nic flavored liquid in a 60ml bottle. So they buy these and just add 10ml of "nic shots". Seriously it is harder to make Kool-Aid than this.

You only need the measuring utensils, the raw PG/VG and whatever concentrated flavors you need when doing full DIY.

 

[ScottP]

Seriously it is harder to make Kool-Aid than this.

Hmm saying this made me wonder if anyone has ever tried flavoring their eliquid with Kool-Aid powder.