Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Chip H.]

Know this is a bit off topic, but had to respond...

Take for example the Breo commercial (seen on hulu and probably on television, too.) In this commercial it is announce that Breo contains a type of medication that can cause death to asthma sufferers - and it is an asthma medication! Does this sound like the FDA is trying to protect people, or more like it is taking money to push a potentially fatal drug onto the American people?

As an asthma sufferer taking a similar medication with the same warnings, this is a gross misunderstanding. The issue with this class of drugs is that they suppress the inflammation normally associated with asthma. The flip side is that if you do happen to overcome this level of suppression with enough acute exposure to an allergen enough to induce a full blown asthmatic attack, it's a biggun, and by the time you realize it's come on and how bad it is, it may be too late to get to a hospital. I still gladly take this class of medication and knew all about the "increased risk of death" before I ever took my first dose. It's the choice of breathing normally day in, day out with a very, very small risk of an asthmatic attack severe enough to kill me, or breathe "through a straw" 24/7. I'm already at an increased risk for a respiratory related death because I'm asthmatic, increasing that risk a few percent while giving me a normal quality of life is a trade off I'm happy to make.

 

[bobwho77]

THIS

599 Additives that Can Be Found In Cigarettes

is a list of the nearly 600 additives that the FDA has approved for use in cigarettes

THIS

List of cigarette smoke carcinogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is a list of known carcinogens in cigarette smoke.

and THIS

Chantix Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com

is an FDA approved medication for smoking cessation.

but we have to be sure that vaping is safe?

 

[CMD-Ky]

Man is not free unless government is limited. (I won't give attribution for this quote, it would only cause some to become upset.) These regs are a mere symptom of the cancer which is an over reaching government. Our government is virtually unlimited in its power over the actions of what was once a free people. Control over nearly every aspect of life has become the operative philosophy of government, both state and federal, regardless of the party in charge.

These regulations have touched you personally and the reaction has been profound. The creeping growth of control has been increasing for years but it has been ignored or even welcomed by some until, at last, it has affected the members here personally.

 

[Slicnic33]

The thing i'm concerned about is D.I.Y. If these or any future regulations affect D.I.Y then i'll start worrying. No one can deny the massive profit margins gained from pre made e liquids. I think the government have noticed this too. Those companies who have been making and selling e liquids from the start, i'm pretty sure they'll easily be able to afford any fees payable to the government. All the little guys will most certainly go out of business though.

Can e liquid manufacturers justify their prices ?.
Are these guys to blame for e liquid regulations ?.

I've read time and time again that this whole regulation thing is about money and not the public health.

So you have to ask yourself why is this happening because it doesn't seem to make any sense, not from the public health point of view.

I think the government wants a piece of the action !.

Not even the "Big Guys" can afford these TPMA's. We are talking a million per SKU. Each flavor in each nic strength is a separate SKU.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

My only "political" comment is, we now live in the United Socialist States of America where the federal government increasingly controls every aspect of our lives and individual choice and freedom is increasingly rare.

Amen. I am 55 and have seen such a change, I can't even imagine the change perceived by adding 20 years perspective.

 

[Kent C]

they think they know whats best for us..

You could have just said that, but yeah - he's my Senator - to whom I've emailed many letters to no avail. There's a good probability that he may be VP, which would not bode well for any grandfather change which may go past this year.

 

[mattiem]

Done ...............with a massive comment(for me) attached.

Thank you I am reading a lot of the comments. I just hope the ones this is being sent read them too.

All of y'all are doing great...Up to 53,792 now from the 53,436 it was at yesterday. The word is spreading like wild fire now. Please sign and share with loved ones and even those that you don't really care much about

U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives, President of the United States: Reject the FDA's Deeming of Vapor Products as Tobacco Products

 

[ColoKaren]

3 gallons of 100/1000, 3 provs, 2 mechs, 3 ZAPs and 2 'Lons... I think I'm good to go for about 40 more years. I'm planning on taking up soap-making. 'Cause bubbles.

 

[DaveP]

What the FDA's actions really mean is that FINALLY the vaping industry can begin litigation.
Now we just have to wait & see if the vaping industry will step up to the plate. (or will the vaping industry just sit back to see if someone else will)

I hope you are right, but the major players in the hardware manufacturing business are Chinese. It will be mostly up to groups like CASAA to fight for our rights.

 

[Frank_147]

Amen. I am 55 and have seen such a change, I can't even imagine the change perceived by adding 20 years perspective.

yep!

 

[DC2]

Sure, but Dekang is already registered with the FDA. That's a start. The FDA has approved their manufacturing facility and their process. From there, they just have to meet any new standards.

Hardware makers have two years to apply for and gain FDA certification. So, we all have a while to stock up on hardware and learn how to DIY.

Dave, I believe you are mistaking what FDA certification means.
It's nothing more than a rubber stamp that you operate in a clean and safe manner.

It has NOTHING at all to do with complying with the Demon Regulations.
FDA certification is nothing more than a cute little feather in the cap.

Where I'm still murky is the legislative process. I know that Congress has given the FDA the authority. So they came up with the deeming regs. The regs were sent to the OMB/OIRA and then back to the FDA. Now what? Does Congress need to approve the final version one more time? Or the deeming regs become law automatically--unless Congress, POTUS, or the courts oppose them?

As part of the deeming process, Congress has the ability to stop what is happening.

I don't know how long they have to do that though, but I know it's true.
I can't find the breakdown of how the process works right now.

Anyway, it does become "official" if Congress does not do anything.

And in case you had any doubt about what was coming next...

Doctors see big loophole in FDA action against e-cigarettes and want it closed

Anyone that thinks flavors will survive...
Good luck with that.

 

[zoiDman]

My understanding from what I have read is that they will require very strict age verification for online sales. That is the only thing that I have seen so far. That is if there are any vendors left to sell online though.

My understanding is that online sales can not be stopped...
Unless and until they amend the PACT Act to add electronic cigarettes...

I am pretty sure that is correct.
But don't quote me.

Here is something I posted Yesterday in Another Thread ...

I hope I am Understanding this correctly...


B. Section 1140.2--Purpose


This final rule adds "and covered tobacco products" to indicate that the purpose of this
part is to establish restrictions on the sale, distribution, and access to covered tobacco products in

315


addition to those restrictions in place for cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. Therefore, the final
rule states that retailers of the newly deemed covered tobacco products may not sell them to
individuals under 18 years of age and requires retailers of covered tobacco products to verify the
purchaser's birth date by reviewing the individual's photographic identification. However, as
noted in § 1140.14(b)(2)(ii), a retailer is not required to verify the age of any person who is more
than 26 years of age. In addition, § 1140.14(b)(3) prohibits the sale of covered tobacco products
using an electronic or mechanical device such as a vending machine, unless it is located in a
facility where the retailer ensures that no person younger than 18 years of age is present, or
permitted to enter, at any time. FDA does not intend for section 1140.14(b)(3) to prohibit the
sale of tobacco products via the Internet, but the sale of covered tobacco products via any
medium, including the Internet, must only be to persons 18 years of age or older. Therefore, any
sale of covered tobacco products over the Internet must comply with the minimum age and
identification requirements in this rule.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2016-10685.pdf

 

[Bruce C]

Sadly just another in a long list of abuse of government powers. My generation foretold this back in the 60's and 70's, just as sadly no one listened (Richard Nixon thru to the "Patriot Act"). We are on the verge of becoming a police state with this upcoming election.

This is so obviously BT and BG doing a money grab it's not remotely funny. The vaping community has scared BT right out of it's pants. The legislation of personal freedoms has been happening for quite a while and most everyone kind of slept through it. What's next? Do we ban lawnmowers because stupid people cut off toes? Ban fruits and vegetables that contain nicotine? Ban all yard equipment that use vaping style batteries because they might explode?

Please tell me if I'm wrong but this doesn't prevent us legally using what we already have does it? I'm just not in the mood to be PC'd for vaping in public.

 

[dustinmj]

I've always had trouble reading 500pg documents no matter the importance. I personally like visual representations, however.

... created from full text of FDA deeming regulations

 

[CMD-Ky]

Sadly just another in a long list of abuse of government powers. My generation foretold this back in the 60's and 70's, just as sadly no one listened (Richard Nixon thru to the "Patriot Act"). We are on the verge of becoming a police state with this upcoming election.

This is so obviously BT and BG doing a money grab it's not remotely funny. The vaping community has scared BT right out of it's pants. The legislation of personal freedoms has been happening for quite a while and most everyone kind of slept through it. What's next? Do we ban lawnmowers because stupid people cut off toes? Ban fruits and vegetables that contain nicotine? Ban all yard equipment that use vaping style batteries because they might explode?

Please tell me if I'm wrong but this doesn't prevent us legally using what we already have does it? I'm just not in the mood to be PC'd for vaping in public.

You vape in public? MyGod, man, have you no decency?

 

[dannyv45]

Please tell me if I'm wrong but this doesn't prevent us legally using what we already have does it? I'm just not in the mood to be PC'd for vaping in public.

I don't think they can regulate what you already own only what can be sold but heck I could be wrong.

 

[DaveP]

Dave, I believe you are mistaking what FDA certification means.
It's nothing more than a rubber stamp that you operate in a clean and safe manner.

It has NOTHING at all to do with complying with the Demon Regulations.
FDA certification is nothing more than a cute little feather in the cap.

It's a start. Looks like clean rooms and regular inspections are in the future for juice labs. That's not something I'd object to since we don't always know where juice is made and what the facilities look like. The down side is that juice will be made in the future in facilities that some of the genius juice gurus can't afford.

Hardware is a chief concern. I'd imagine that 90% is designed and manufactured in China. I plan to buy anything that I ever wanted in the near future. With enough mod backups I can vape for a long time, even if it's plain old PG/VG with a dose of nic and a drop of Lorann's or Flavor Art. I"ve done that sort of DIY enough to know that I can create something I like. It won't be as good as what I'm vaping now, but it will hold me over.

That said, I hope Dekang and Hangsen have a working relationship with the FDA. I'd hate to lose access to those juices.

 

[DC2]

Here is something I posted Yesterday in Another Thread ...

Yes, sorry...

I meant that I don't think online sales are stopped for adults.
Well, I meant not YET anyway.

I believe the PACT Act has to be modified to do that.

 

[dannyv45]

I wonder what will happen to all the B&M's out there.

 

[Bronze]

FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!!