Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Vapingjeff]

The thing i'm concerned about is D.I.Y. If these or any future regulations affect D.I.Y then i'll start worrying. No one can deny the massive profit margins gained from pre made e liquids. I think the government have noticed this too. Those companies who have been making and selling e liquids from the start, i'm pretty sure they'll easily be able to afford any fees payable to the government. All the little guys will most certainly go out of business though.

Can e liquid manufacturers justify their prices ?.
Are these guys to blame for e liquid regulations ?.

I've read time and time again that this whole regulation thing is about money and not the public health.

So you have to ask yourself why is this happening because it doesn't seem to make any sense, not from the public health point of view.

I think the government wants a piece of the action !.

The government always wants a piece of the pie especially since they've been losing revenue from cigarette sales and needs to find a way to replace the revenue. The message they put out is they want you to continue to buy cigarettes but not smoke them because it's bad for your health.

 

[skoony]

I've been trying to read through this thread but it's just too long. Has anyone answered the question as to whether there was eliquid being sold and marketed in the US prior to the 2007 cut off? I didn't start until 2009 but remember RuyanDirect but I don't know how long they were in business. Janty was another name I remember.

If there was a vendor here in the states stocking and selling it I would say yes.
Ordering from over seas directly to the end user will not apply I do not believe.
Regards
Mike

 

[Munk]

The vaping community will quickly become 95%+ DIY of prices climb to $1 per ml or more. Overseas companies will see the profit potential in offering raw nicotine, and the rest of the ingredients (PG, VG, flavorings, etc) will still be available in the US by those who are smart enough to not market those products as intended for vaping.

 

[Jorge22]

I was just thinking... After my initial reaction...

Is everybody sure the FDA's agenda doesn't go against several hundreds of your Amendments to the US Constitution? And, that being the case, you never fooled around with the Constitution - do you think that'll happen now?

 

[VictorC]

Anything related to vaping is impacted. Yes, they even named mods, attomizers, tanks and even down to coils.

They are bringing EVERYTHING under the new regulations. We can still fight. Join CASAA if you haven't already. Stay up to date with the Calls to Action they post. Fight with everything you have.

It will be impossible to enforce, those components are also used in other industries.

 

[paulw2014]

Any words on upcoming lawsuits from vape shops or the guy who beat the FDA in 2009? I read somewhere he's going to take it to them again this time.

 

[skoony]

The vaping community will quickly become 95%+ DIY of prices climb to $1 per ml or more. Overseas companies will see the profit potential in offering raw nicotine, and the rest of the ingredients (PG, VG, flavorings, etc) will still be available in the US by those who are smart enough to not market those products as intended for vaping.

Under the FDA's new definition of advertised intended use,actual use will be considered
too.
Mike

 

[Endor]

Thanks for the reply Robin. I guess I'm just trying to be hopeful that there was something that would be grandfather in out of the eliquid group. I know we have some time and I'm signing every petition I get my hands on but as of yesterday I've started building my existing stock to a new level. I don't see myself quitting vaping ever even though I use snus too. It has taken both along with some snuff to get me off cigarettes and keep me there. I can't go back to smoking and won't give up.

Hittman, there is one remaining hope, and that is the Cole Amendment and/or HR 2058, which would move the grandfather date from 2007 to today (in essence). This would mean that anything on the market today would be grandfathered in, and would not require a retrospective pre-market tobacco application (PMTA). The Cole Amendment made it out of Appropriations committee and is hopeful, especially since it's attached to an appropriations bill, but still has a long road.

Of course, even with the Cole Amendment/HR2058, new products would still require an PMTA before they could be sold, so this FDA deeming does completely stifle the rapid improvements and evolution we've seen in vaping over the past few years.... stops it cold.

That being said, people who understand the FDA tobacco application processes better than me claim that the Substantial Equivalence (SE) pathway is extremely difficult anyway, even if there was an equivalent product sold in 2007 (which there wasn't). I also seem to recall that the FDA has not approved a single SE application, and only one PMTA since 2007 (Swedish Match snus).

 

[Vapingjeff]

It's going to be more than that. If they can even get the liquid approved through the FDA, the money it will take to get that approval will make the eliquid cost skyrocket.

Really? I'm thinking $30 is going to hurt the industry big time but if a 30ml is $40 or more, the industry will be toast except for a subgroup that can afford such prices.

 

[Robino1]

It will be impossible to enforce, those components are also used in other industries.

Remember, their goal is to shut down the small businesses. They will be able to enforce it on that level alone.

Internet....depending on the companies you are getting the product from....They will have to comply or get shut down too. Small business Modders? They won't be able to comply. If you know how to build your own...you can probably get away with it.

Most vapers are not going to be able to make their own mods.

The FDA is killing vaping and they have the nerve to say that what they are doing will likely increase innovation. Bull !

 

[vape-addict]

I admire your passion but it's a shot in the dark.unfortunitly only congress has the power to fix this . I don't believe it will happen not in a election year there are too many seats up for grabs this November they are not going to do anything to jeopardize that.


Peace

 

[Munk]

Under the FDA's new definition of advertised intended use,actual use will be considered
too.
Mike

They may say that, but inforcing it is another matter all together. Flavoring, PG, and VG are used in millions of other non-vaping products already on the market.

 

[Robino1]

Really? I'm thinking $30 is going to hurt the industry big time but if a 30ml is $40 or more, the industry will be toast except for a subgroup that can afford such prices.

At $330,000.00 per application (on just ONE variation of a liquid) yeah, they've killed vaping as we know it.

WE CAN STILL FIGHT THIS!

 

[tj99959]

Don't get in a rush & overreact!
This is going to take MONEY, and a lot of it. Money for lobbyists, and money for lawyers. Both BT & BP are spending billions to kill vaping. Those dollars are going to win unless the vaping industry steps up in a big way.

While petitions, and marches on the White House might help with image, they will do nothing to beat this thing. We will beat this in congress and in court, or we will not beat it at all.

Just remember, we would have lost this thing a long time ago (2009) had one company (nJoy) not stepped up to the plate to take the FDA to court. (cost them some big bucks too) Any of you folks ever say thank you to nJoy?

 

[crxess]

I know that some of said that signing any more petitions is a complete waste of time. This is likely true. After all, they have not paid attention to the ones you already sign. However, this might be due to the fact that it takes 6 months to get 100000 signatures squeezed out of more than two million vapers! The latest petition has been up since the 5th and has only 50000. It only takes 30 seconds. I know that this will take time out of your busy hand check posting schedule, but really...

I mean, and I'm likely preaching to the choir here, if you can't be bothered to sign a petition that takes 30 seconds how the f*** are you going to take time out of your busy schedule to write a letter or email to your representative that might take 5 or 6 minutes?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Amen Brother!

 

[Endor]

Under the FDA's new definition of advertised intended use,actual use will be considered
too.
Mike

Mike, indeed. Constructive possession. For instance, in the gun world, merely possessing parts to convert a weapon (e.g. AR-15) from simi- to full-automatic can be a felony.

I mentioned earlier the page 222 quote. I've still contend that the FDA has left it open to stop the whole "buy zero-nic eliquid, then add your own nic later" situation. I think, realistically, enforcing this would be very difficult.

 

[Haylon357]

This is absolutely ridiculous. I really don't have the words about this event without insulting Americans. Yes, I'm an American. I have been stockpiling gear for the past 2 years and my nicotine is on ice so I will not feel the repercussions of this for some time. It's the people who haven't learned to roll their own coils and make their own juice that will suffer. I'm so disgusted and disappointed.

Sent from my LG V10 using Tapatalk

 

[WillyZee]

Any words on upcoming lawsuits from vape shops or the guy who beat the FDA in 2009? I read somewhere he's going to take it to them again this time.

the last time it was NJOY ... unfortunately, these deeming regs may help NJOY join the ranks of BT this time

 

[Vapinginmyboots]

I haven't logged in for a long time but I gotta post in regards to what has just happened as my head is currently spinning (in actual complete circles lol). I'm a long time vaper here (I quit using e-cig 6-6-2009 still analog free here cutting nic now down to 9mg). What we are seeing here is tyranny and its only just the beginning. Stock up now while you can and while its still easy. America just isn't the same as it was a long time ago. E-cig was just a blip on the timeline of the history of centuries worth of harmful tobacco use and here now gone tomorrow, just like America was a blip on the timeline of history as one if not the only examples of actual freedom that we are losing at an alarming rate currently. Every civilization/nation in history deteriorates and degrades over time ours is no exception. I hate to be so negative but its how things work and it sucks big time.

 

[crxess]

I admire your passion but it's a shot in the dark.unfortunitly only congress has the power to fix this . I don't believe it will happen not in a election year there are too many seats up for grabs this November they are not going to do anything to jeopardize that.


Peace

Again - If Congress does NOT see the Desire to make change, FROM the PEOPLE, it will NOT Act.
Only the actions of the people can Sway Congress to make a change like this.