Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[VictorC]

I think you will find that Much will depend on How the Product is Marketed. And whether or not it is Combined in a "Kit" or Sold with Another "tobacco Product".

Sell in parts then (mod, battery, atomizer, wick, coil, pv/vg base, flavouring). Until they are all assembled in a certain way they can't be treated as an "e-cigarette" or "e-liquid". What is sold is just nuts, bolts, o-rings, coils, cotton, battery chargers, skin moisturizers, and cooking flavourings.

 

[phephner]

19 year old kids were being sent off to die in a unjust war ..the is completely different

So the 480,000 deaths a year caused by smoking are a different kind of death. Anyway, that wasn't the point of my post. It was a response to the question whether or not protests can influence decisions.

 

[zoiDman]

Not sure if this has already been posted here but, there is a lot of info here.

FDA announces "Final Rule" over E-Cig Deeming Regulations

https://www.federalregister.gov/uploads/2011/01/the_rulemaking_process.pdf

So once again, Is there going to be Congressional Review of what the FDA has just Announced?


How is the Congress in involved in reviewing final rules?


Under the Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act (also known as the
Congressional Review Act), new final rules must be sent to Congress and the Government
Accountability Office for review before they can take effect. “Major rules” (ones that are
economically significant and require OIRA review) must be made effective at least 60 days after
the date of publication in the Federal Register, allowing time for Congressional review. In
emergency situations, a major rule can be made effective before 60 days.

If the House and Senate pass a resolution of disapproval and the President signs it (or if both
houses override a presidential veto), the rule becomes void and cannot be republished by an
agency in the same form without Congressional approval. Since 1996, when this process
started, Congress has disapproved only one rule.

Congress may also exercise its oversight in other ways, by holding hearings and posing
questions to agency heads, by enacting new legislation, or by imposing funding restrictions."

https://www.federalregister.gov/uploads/2011/01/the_rulemaking_process.pdf

---

Why have we been Waiting for 5 Years for this Day to Come, and Now that it is here, there is Confusion about what Happens Next?

 

[Lemwise]

So here's an idea I had. The FDA said 0 nic liquid is also a tobacco product because the liquids they tested contained trace amounts of nicotine. What if a liquid manufacturer can prove there's no liquid on the premises anywhere and nothing can contain trace amounts of nicotine, that would effectively stop the FDA in it's tracks, wouldn't it? They can then start another business in another location that sells nicotine shots to be added to 0 nic liquids.

 

[zoiDman]

Sell in parts then (mod, battery, atomizer, wick, coil, pv/vg base, flavouring). Until they are all assembled in a certain way they can't be treated as an "e-cigarette" or "e-liquid". What is sold is just nuts, bolts, o-rings, coils, cotton, battery chargers, skin moisturizers, and cooking flavourings.

This is Part of the Thinking when it comes to Regulating something.

Regulators know they can Not Prevent every single Item that can/could be used with an e-Cigarette. But if you can Limit the way that a Product is Marketed/Advertised, you can Also Limit the amount of people who can Easily find the Product.

 

[Jman8]

The "guy" who beat the FDA in 2009 was NJOY and Smoking Everywhere (Soterra). The lawsuit had nothing to do with this situation, in fact, that lawsuit is partially responsible for the situation we're in now.

In 2009, the FDA seized shipments of e-cigarettes claiming that they were medical devices without FDA approval. Two companies (Soterra and NJOY) took them to court, and won. In that case, Judge Leon states that e-cigarettes are not a medical device, and that the only way the FDA has any "potential" to regulate them was as tobacco products.

Fast forward today, the FDA has done just that... regulated them as tobacco products.

I think it is helpful to realize that our counterparts from earlier (most of whom are still in the game) were very happy with the news that FDA cannot regulate as a drug and can regulate as a tobacco product. Saying things like, "this is great news because now the product can't be banned!"

But don't take my word for it. Go back and read posts from late 2010 or earlier regarding the fight. Or here is link to a thread that deals with aspect of the earlier fight. It's 300+ pages, so this thread has a ways to go before it matches the attention our predecessors had when engaged in the larger battle. Oh, and the continuation thread (110+ pages) is where the 'good news' is mentioned/celebrated.

 

[Mandro]

I didn't realise I could sign it (UK) but I just did

I didn't realise either, just signed

 

[VictorC]

This is Part of the Thinking when it comes to Regulating something.

Regulators know they can Not Prevent every single Item that can/could be used with an e-Cigarette. But if you can Limit the way that a Product is Marketed/Advertised, you can Also Limit the amount of people who can Easily find the Product.

Agreed. The biggest looser is someone who wants to quit smoking. Current vapers and small business will find the way around.

 

[Kent C]

But with that ammendment, the President would have to veto the entire budget bill to veto it. Or does he have line item veto powers? I can't remember if line item veto has been abadoned, or if it ever applied to budget legislation, which I think it didn't.

There's no line item veto. Obama has vetoed military spending bills - including an increase in military pay, but no other real 'spending' bills. He also vetoed the attempt to repeal Obamacare, and a few proposals that he thought would harm his global warming agenda. So it is likely that he would pass the Appropriations bill, UNLESS, that particular amendment stood out to him as harmful to public health. So IF he vetoes the bill, IF it ever gets to him, that would likely be the cause. IMHO,,, I might add. :- )

 

[The Eciginator]

Whelp, today's local paper had several reader responses to this, only one got it right saying this had nothing to do with health and everything to do with money and BT. The rest were along the lines of "About time!" and "The govmn't should arrest people blowing this poison on our babies!"...

 

[tj99959]

This is Part of the Thinking when it comes to Regulating something.

Regulators know they can Not Prevent every single Item that can/could be used with an e-Cigarette. But if you can Limit the way that a Product is Marketed/Advertised, you can Also Limit the amount of people who can Easily find the Product.

I can & already have built PV.s using nothing that was vape related. Coax cable connectors work quite nicely. Pretty simple to turn a coax connector into a RDA too.

 

[Katmar]

I'm not sure how many vaping forums are out there, but I know of one that has maybe 5 pages of posts regarding this and many thousands of members. This WHOLE community needs to somehow come together as a united front. ECF is certainly leading the charge and has the most members who CARE about all of this. I am so proud to be a member here. We need ALL vaping forums ready to fight in any way necessary. We have to reach the masses. And, you know, probably the majority of vapers do not belong to ANY forum. The only way to reach them is through word of mouth and the media.

 

[sparkky1]

So once again, Is there going to be Congressional Review of what the FDA has just Announced?


How is the Congress in involved in reviewing final rules?


Under the Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act (also known as the
Congressional Review Act), new final rules must be sent to Congress and the Government
Accountability Office for review before they can take effect. “Major rules” (ones that are
economically significant and require OIRA review) must be made effective at least 60 days after
the date of publication in the Federal Register, allowing time for Congressional review. In
emergency situations, a major rule can be made effective before 60 days.

If the House and Senate pass a resolution of disapproval and the President signs it (or if both
houses override a presidential veto), the rule becomes void and cannot be republished by an
agency in the same form without Congressional approval. Since 1996, when this process
started, Congress has disapproved only one rule.

Congress may also exercise its oversight in other ways, by holding hearings and posing
questions to agency heads, by enacting new legislation, or by imposing funding restrictions."

https://www.federalregister.gov/uploads/2011/01/the_rulemaking_process.pdf

---

Why have we been Waiting for 5 Years for this Day to Come, and Now that it is here, there is Confusion about what Happens Next?

Because anyone with a business degree / PHD would agree, the re-writing of the tobacco / cosmetic act is NOT being designed by ANY federal agencies

 

[Dizzo]

Deep down, I always knew it would come to this. The real shame is all the small manufacturers that will be forced out. In the end it will be the tobacco and pharma companies that will run the trade. I'm glad my mods come from Italy. I'm also concerned about the end result of juice content. Who knows what they'll end up putting in the juice? It's just about money in the end to them. We have been working on getting this d/ap issue worked out, but the fda will approve whatever as long as the price is payed. This will not result in cleaner product.
Looks like my time will now be spent learning to make my own.

 

[Antwoord]

I'm not completely serious but what we really need is for someone to invent telepathy or a means to become telepathic. With the celerity and fluidity of knowledge in the form of the internet we were able to use e-cigarettes safely while following and influencing the evolution of technology. Imagine what we could do if we had access to everything. No more bs and lies. The sheer volume of thought would overcome petty things like this FDA Deeming Regulations. Poker games would be meaningless as well.

 

[zoiDman]

Because anyone with a business degree / PHD would agree, the re-writing of the tobacco / cosmetic act is NOT being designed by ANY federal agencies

I think you may have Replied to the Wrong Post?

Because My Post is asking if there will be Any Congressional Review of the recently release FDA "Deeming" and PMTA for ENDS rules.

 

[Wow1420]

This is Part of the Thinking when it comes to Regulating something.

Regulators know they can Not Prevent every single Item that can/could be used with an e-Cigarette. But if you can Limit the way that a Product is Marketed/Advertised, you can Also Limit the amount of people who can Easily find the Product.

I'm stunned at how far they did go at defining every little part as a tobacco component. Coils? Bottles?

0 nicotine e-liquid!? Really? That one hurts my brain.

 

[tj99959]

I think you may have Replied to the Wrong Post?

Because My Post is asking if there will be Any Congressional Review of the recently release FDA "Deeming" and PMTA for ENDS rules.

'I think' the answer is NO.
Congress didn't review the ban on chicken *** in chicken salad either.

I didn't say it Robin .... there are only 3 stars .. not 4)

 

[sparkky1]

I think you may have Replied to the Wrong Post?

Because My Post is asking if there will be Any Congressional Review of the recently release FDA "Deeming" and PMTA for ENDS rules.

Sorry zoid, must have been part of your bottom page sig .............

 

[Endor]

I think it is helpful to realize that our counterparts from earlier (most of whom are still in the game) were very happy with the news that FDA cannot regulate as a drug and can regulate as a tobacco product. Saying things like, "this is great news because now the product can't be banned!"

But don't take my word for it. Go back and read posts from late 2010 or earlier regarding the fight. Or here is link to a thread that deals with aspect of the earlier fight. It's 300+ pages, so this thread has a ways to go before it matches the attention our predecessors had when engaged in the larger battle. Oh, and the continuation thread (110+ pages) is where the 'good news' is mentioned/celebrated.

Technically, being part of the FSTPCA does mean that the FDA cannot outright ban a product, as the law specifically excludes that option.

Of course, there are other ways to get rid a product category without outright banning it, which is what they've done here. My guess is that the FDA will not approve a single PMTA for an vapor product over the next 3 years. So after that, they will all be gone. "Banned", but not outright banned, if you catch my drift.