Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[supertrunker]

I'd vote for anyone that champions vaping, because whatever way you slice it, it's safer than smoking tobacco.

It's as simple as that.

T

 

[crxess]

I agree, BUT that action MUST come from LOBBYISTS (if it's going to win out) who's efforts are PAID FOR by the actions of "the people".
8,000,000 names with a one dollar donation each to pay a lobbyist would work quite nicely.

It must come from Every available form of recognition up to and including Lobbying.

Civil Disobedience is a Necessary Action on this matter. Expose the lie in any Non-Criminal Action Possible.
Sway the Voters opinions
Sway Public Perception
Expose Corrupt Science to the greater public
Expose Politically Corrupt Manipulation for specific Corporate Gains

A constant application of, Publicly aware, Pressure must be unrelentingly applied to Government to change its stance and level or regulation.

We are a people to Be Protected by our Government...............Not Controlled.

 

[defdock]

I curious as to the "laws" to take place after all is said and done (if applicable)


What's gunna happen when I get caught on my driveway vaping some non approved device/liquid? Ticket? Tax? Confiscation?

I'd love to fight that one in court

 

[crxess]

Why have we been Waiting for 5 Years for this Day to Come, and Now that it is here, there is Confusion about what Happens Next?

Because it is difficult to prepare for a battle hidden behind Closed doors, with secret meetings, preparing hidden and protected documentation not available for review before Final DEEMING Release.

 

[sparkky1]

The way the regs are worded I agree that they will not approve anything (except maybe from BT). It is worded in such a way that the regulations can never really be met (especially if they don't want them to). They will simply keep moving the goal posts for "no public harm". At any rate "no public harm" is absolutely impossible to prove in the scientific sense. There is nothing that can be proven to have no harm.

Exactly, now your catching on, NRT's good but nicotine is bad .............

 

[Bronze]

I curious as to the "laws" to take place after all is said and done (if applicable)


What's gunna happen when I get caught on my driveway vaping some non approved device/liquid? Ticket? Tax? Confiscation?

I'd love to fight that one in court

Leavenworth spending the rest of our lives making toothpicks out of logs.

 

[Down-Time]

And sadly the majority still are not aware.

Most Vapers are not on Forums or up on current events or in any way realize there is change coming. Most are on a cheap alternative level to replace smoking.

Those are actually the ones we need to fight the hardest to inform and protect.
Peeps heading for the slaughter house without a clue.

I just attended a 2-day recertification class in Denver where I was pleasantly surprised to see approx. 20% of the attendees outside vaping during breaks. None of them were aware of the FDA's final reading. Sad! I gave them a brief rundown and suggested they become familiar with the direction vaping is going.

 

[DC2]

Are the China made products (juices, devices, etc) that were available back in 2007 even ALLOWED to be grandfathered under these deeming regs? I mean they arent USA products. They could all be banned outright under these new regs even if existing before the deemed date as foreign and ineligable. Someone tell me Im wrong and why.

A product must have "commercially marketed" in the United States to be eligible.
Not exactly sure what "commercially marketed" means though.

In Feb. of 2007 was there a nicotine base product that consumers could buy?

I'm pretty sure nobody was "commercially marketing" nicotine base back then.
I don't think anybody was even thinking about DIY at that time.

I really do hope I'm wrong though.

 

[salemgold]

Been gone for a while. Fell off the wagon a couple times, but always found a new juice or build, or a new rattle in my breathing that brought me back to vaping. Been back, in earnest, for about a month now. Each time I've fallen off the wagon, and found my way back, I've been blown away by the advances that were made while I was gone. It'd be a shame to see this industry lose its momentum.

I've actually seen a couple good-news stories in these first days after the deeming. I work in the firearms industry, and we have a fair number of stalwart, old-school, vaping is for queer-folk and hipsters type-smokers, where I work.

They'd gotten over ribbing me about my on/off vaping for the last few years, and let me be. And, then, something changed.

On Friday morning, there were three old-grumpy conservatives holding e-cigs, two pens and one box-mod, out at the smoking shelter. Two of them were the ones who used to give me the most grief about vaping.

I asked what was up, and they had all seen the news, read just a little deeper than the general public is getting from the drive-by media, and realized, right away, what was going on.

It offended them.

Having worked in the firearms industry for decades each, they knew what was happening, and it ...... them off.

One commented that he'd figured he'd need to turn on to vaping eventually, and had been fighting it. He said he'd seen the evolution that vapers had to go through, individually, to get to something that worked, and, now, realized he needed to get it sorted out before the taxes and bans started.

So, naturally, the discussion went to the ways we can work around what's coming. I calmed them down, a little, by showing them how all the equipment I was using could break down into non-ecig elements: a variable wattage flashlight, an aroma diffuser, leather etching wire, and surgical cotton.

The only thing I was extremely worried about was the liquid nicotine, so I had ordered 2l of 100mg, and enough 50ml bottles to freeze it all on Thursday night. All three of them asked me to forward them my receipts so they could order the same stuff.


There is an element of kindred-spirit between the cigar smokers, vapers, moonshine enthusiasts, and "bitter gun-clingers", and times like these turn acquaintances into brothers.

That's awesome. Best thing that I have read in days.

 

[Endor]

And sadly the majority still are not aware.

Most Vapers are not on Forums or up on current events or in any way realize there is change coming. Most are on a cheap alternative level to replace smoking.

Those are actually the ones we need to fight the hardest to inform and protect.
Peeps heading for the slaughter house without a clue.

The deeming did seem to generate quite a bit of mass media attention, so it is likely that many vapers are aware of it now versus aware of it from 2014.

However, the mass media really did a terrible job of reporting this. The key points I heard in all the mainstream media reports:

- No more under 18.
- Enforces "safety standards".
- "Treats them just like cigarettes."

While all of these are true, it is extremely whitewashed.

Some of the newspapers had more in-depth reporting. I think the Washington Post actually talked about the PMTA process and how it will, in fact, ban 99% of all vapor products.

But what people heard on the top-of-the-hour news breaks on radio, for instance, was a far cry from what the REAL impact is.

 

[crxess]

Leavenworth spending the rest of our lives making toothpicks out of logs.

..........and that is when they will have a sit in, Starvation protest to deal with.

I am no anarchist........I think, however I am well past my better days and fully willing to sacrifice for a cause so worthy.

A Billion Lives!

Someone needs to start listening

 

[Oliver]

The FDA claim they've found 1 device that was commercially marketed in 2006. But they won't tell anyone what it is, and it doesn't really matter anyway.

Regarding what the FDA considers to be commercially marketed - my understanding is that they want to see multiple forms of evidence showing that a product was sold to US consumers in more than one state. This would include sales invoices, weighbills, purchase orders etc etc.

 

[DC2]

I know for certain that in the past 48 hours I have seen something quoted from the FDA saying that they will be prepared to enforce on day 91. What part of this exactly will they be enforcing on day 91? Does anyone here know?

I think maybe this is what they will begin enforcing...
Retailer Overview of FDA Regulations for Selling Tobacco Products
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rules for Sales of E-Cigarettes and Other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS)

Some examples of ENDS include e-cigarettes, vape pens, e-hookahs, e-cigars, personal vaporizers and electronic pipes.

• Check photo ID of everyone under age 27 who attempts to purchase e-cigarettes or other ENDS.
• Only sell e-cigarettes and other ENDS to customers age 18 and older.
• Do NOT give away free samples of e-cigarettes or other ENDS, including any of their components or parts.
• Do NOT sell e-cigarettes or other ENDS in a vending machine unless in an adult-only facility.
• Beginning in 2018, do NOT sell or distribute e-cigarettes or other ENDS without a health warning statement on the package.
• Beginning in 2018, do NOT display advertisements for e-cigarettes or other ENDS without a health warning statement.
• If you operate a vape shop that mixes or prepares liquid nicotine or nicotine-containing e-liquids, or creates or modifies any type of ENDS, you are considered a tobacco product manufacturer and must comply with all of the legal requirements for tobacco product manufacturers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe the two most important ones there are...
--Vendors will need to find a way to charge for juice tasting
--Vape shops will not "technically" be allowed to build coils any more

That's how it looks to me anyway.

 

[buffaloguy]

This is why I thought it would be great if the Billion Lives Documentary could be condensed to a 30 second commercial spot, and run in the mainstream media. Industry leaders, B&Ms could pool funds to make it happen.
I don't think non-vapers will go to see the film. We have to use the media to get the truth out.

I couldnt be more unhappy with the makers of this documentary. The movie has been done for awhile now and they could have released it to every streaming service worldwide and make their money on it.

Instead, while all this is going on the only thing they are concerned with is finding "funding for premier dates" and "movie festivals" because they actually think documentary awards and money are due to them for their work. I got a lengthly newsletter from them two days ago about their "plans" and wrote to them only to be told that Im wrong.

They could have helped to save a billion lives now instead they want to be awarded and profit off them. Imo, they have lost my support for good. Its about principles to us, not money and awards for them.

 

[ZeroedIn]

I think the key sentence in your original post is: "Since 1996, when this process started, Congress has disapproved only one rule.".

Disapproved one rule. In 20 years.

I don't think there is nearly enough momentum in Congress on this issue for them to intervene, which is unfortunate.

Especially since the vast majority of vendors (small business) have just been lazy on this issue, all of this time. We knew this was coming. Yet, they were too worried about cloud chasing comps and getting bearded hipsters in their shops to actually get engaged in advocacy. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. They are not beating down Congress' door... why would they get involved?

Your statement that only one rule in 20 years has been rescinded by Congress is incorrect.

Congressional Review Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zoiDman]

Because it is difficult to prepare for a battle hidden behind Closed doors, with secret meetings, preparing hidden and protected documentation not available for review before Final DEEMING Release.

Completely Agree.

And I'm not say'n that Anyone could have known Exactly what the FDA was going to Release.

What I'm say is Has the Rule Making Process Changed? Are the Procedures the Same Today as they were 5 Years ago? Isn't there a Step By Step process that the FDA has to follow to Implement Regulatory Rules?

If the Answer to those Questions are No. Yes. Yes., then I would just like to know what is the Next Step in the Process?

 

[salemgold]

This is what I found.

Hon Lik’s e-cigarette was made available for sale in Europe in 2006, and it hit the United States market in 2007. In fact, in 2007, the product won multiple awards at the American Tobacco Expo in Las Vegas.

 

[JimZet]

This is so dumb, how can they put our vaping gadgets near tobacco products?!
This is all just a greed, they just want the money that vape companies are making,
they care about health? HELL NO, they don't give a crap about people lives, all they care about is find a way to get money!
They don't care that vapers ( ex smokers ) feeling huge improvements in health after switching to vaping, it is obviously better than cigarettes and NOT a tobacco product! Tobacco is a damn plant, where the hell did they see us putting plants into our mods ?! Why don't they make wine glasses Alcohol product? Or any glass at all, greedy sneaks!

Now i really hope that vape industry will survive and will change into third type of things instead of that tobacco ....
If not were going to have hard time buying mods that will cost starting of 500$, and who knows what will happen to VG/PG Nicotine and flavorings when buying from different place so nobody know that its gonna be used for DIY.

ugh im so ...... off,.

 

[salemgold]

Completely Agree.

And I'm not say'n that Anyone could have known Exactly what the FDA was going to Release.

What I'm say is Has the Rule Making Process Changed? Are the Procedures the Same Today as they were 5 Years ago? Isn't there a Step By Step process that the FDA has to follow to Implement Regulatory Rules?

If the Answer to those Questions are No. Yes. Yes., then I would just like to know what is the Next Step in the Process?

Did this answer your question?

https://www.federalregister.gov/uploads/2011/01/the_rulemaking_process.pdf

 

[defdock]

I may be wrong, as their mobile site don't show alot of "info", but WL has ben around since 2008 I beleive

I'm pretty sure nobody was "commercially marketing" nicotine base back then.
I don't think anybody was even thinking about DIY at that time.