Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[WharfRat1976]

vape shops can all downsize to a 3 x 3 room.

Your selection will be 2 or 3 juices and 2 or 3 mods.

There will also be a large rack of closed end ecigs you now see at Walgreens.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Of course, even with the Cole Amendment/HR2058, new products would still require an PMTA before they could be sold, so this FDA deeming does completely stifle the rapid improvements and evolution we've seen in vaping over the past few years.... stops it cold.

Dead in its tracks.

 

[Bronze]

TAKE ACTION STARTING NOW!

H.R.2058 - FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015

 

[daviedog]

I curious as to the "laws" to take place after all is said and done (if applicable)


What's gunna happen when I get caught on my driveway vaping some non approved device/liquid? Ticket? Tax? Confiscation?

I'd love to fight that one in court

In a Federal court? Really?
Federal courts are about politics. The Right politics..

 

[Bob Chill]

Smokey Joe is spot on. The regs were written to accomplish one thing and loopholes were taken into serious consideration when writing them. Nothing is bulletproof of course but I don't think they could have made them any tighter.

OTOH, I don't interpret the 90 day thing as the beginning of existing stock sell off until it's dry. Products on the market can be made and sold for 24 months after day 90 to allow for applications to be compiled and submitted. Products that don't have an app submitted will need to be off the shelves in 30 days after the 24 month period.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Don't get in a rush & overreact!
This is going to take MONEY, and a lot of it. Money for lobbyists, and money for lawyers. Both BT & BP are spending billions to kill vaping. Those dollars are going to win unless the vaping industry steps up in a big way.

While petitions, and marches on the White House might help with image, they will do nothing to beat this thing. We will beat this in congress and in court, or we will not beat it at all.

Just remember, we would have lost this thing a long time ago (2009) had one company (nJoy) not stepped up to the plate to take the FDA to court. (cost them some big bucks too) Any of you folks ever say thank you to nJoy?

Here is Njoy:
NJOY, E-Cigarette Maker, Receives Funding Valuing It at $1 Billion

 

[buffaloguy]

Joe

I did indeed mean imports for both individuals and retailers. Im assuming that all imports of vaping gear and juices will be banned in 90 days until, and if, they submit applications.

 

[mcol]

If we are going to pretend there is a political fight to be had, I do think Trump is our best bet. I'm all up for Democrats on this site seeing if Hillary would bend and go with what we all identify as the proper public health position with regards to eCigs. If anyone reading this truly thinks Hillary is a possibility, please move on this and let us know how it works out.

Me, I think there is between 0% and .00000001% chance that Hillary helps the pro-vaping cause. I'd love to shown that I'm mistaken and it's at least 20% chance that she's willing to help in the political fight.

I think due to the partisan divide, and Trump being presumptive nominee, that if the chances are 99% likely Hillary will support FDA, then theoretically, there's a 99% chance that Trump would support pro-vaping. Sure, that is very wishful thinking, but this is just me emphasizing the partisan divide that is very visible on pretty much all topics.

I do think there's a good 20% chance Trump would fight for pro-vaping cause because it is business related and because he goes against the grain with what Washington establishment seems to think is best way to proceed on matters.

If Trump today said he will fight for pro-vapers, I think he'd get at least 2 million more people in his camp. It could turn out to be a campaign lie, that's for sure, but all the stuff any of these politicians claim in campaigns fits into that category. It would just be awesome to see it come up and to have Trump and Hillary speak to it. Unless the partisan divide doesn't exist for this particular political item, I think one of them would appear to support pro-vaping, and the other would appear to stand opposed.

So, I think it would be sensible to have a CTA that floods Trump with lots of tweets about this being a significant concern for some voters (us) and see how he responds.

I've been doing that (tweeting to him about a vaping stance).
I've seen him as our best bet for months now.

 

[Hulamoon]

So, in summary, other than this,what I'm hearing from the top is we got nuthin'? If that's the case, perhaps we should be banner it?

H.R.2058 - FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015

 

[Katya]

Jacob Sullum's take:

FDA Imposes a Slow-Motion Ban on E-Cigarettes

"The FDA's regulatory scheme, in other words, privileges the most dangerous nicotine delivery devices (conventional cigarettes) while threatening to eliminate much safer alternatives and blocking the introduction of even better products. All in the name of public health."

 

[Bronze]

So, in summary, other than this,what I'm hearing from the top is we got nuthin'? If that's the case, perhaps we should be banner it?

H.R.2058 - FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015

I suspect it will take some time to organize/focus our efforts. However, writing our representatives is something we can do NOW and continuing going forward. This might always remain the most effective thing we can do. So if you're reading this, click on the link that will take you to another ECF thread for instructions.

H.R.2058 - FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015

 

[Jman8]

Idiot rule says:

Even if some illicit trade were to develop in an attempt to evade the requirements of this rule, FDA does not believe it would result in a volume sufficient to outweigh the public health benefits of the rule. FDA authority over the newly deemed tobacco products will give it means to determine which products are legally on the market and which are counterfeit or otherwise illegally marketed.

IMO, it is upon us (vapers everywhere in the known universe) to have the FDA believe otherwise. IOW, show them that the volume will be quite sufficient and will be in place precisely as a way of evading the zealous requirements of this rule.

Everything related to the other highlighted portion just humors me. I smirk as I read it and it humors me that they think they'll even make a dent in it. I'm sure China is shaking in their boots. LOL.

 

[sparkky1]

Has anyone else tweeted and got a comment back ?
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) | Twitter

 

[Katya]

So, in summary, other than this,what I'm hearing from the top is we got nuthin'? If that's the case, perhaps we should be banner it?

H.R.2058 - FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015

I'd like to hear from CASAA on the subject first. The original H.R. 2058 may be dead at this point and have no chance of passing. Rep. Cole himself says this: "While we can all agree that tobacco products should not be marketed to children, I still believe that my bipartisan amendment, recently approved by the Appropriations Committee in the Agriculture Appropriations bill, provides the same framework for new tobacco products without needlessly subjecting small businesses to unnecessary regulations and without treating law abiding adults like naïve children.”

Cole Responds to FDA Expanding Regulatory Authority on Tobacco Products

I know that CASAA prefers the original bill, they have some problems with the wording of the Appropriations bill, but if this is the best we can get now, maybe we should consider supporting the latter rather than the former.

I know that the good people of CASAA must be very busy right now, but this is important.

Just my

 

[skoony]

I would like to mention we have to keep an eye on the states. Now that they have Federal
guidance via the release of the deeming reg.'s there is nothing to prevent them from enacting
legislation even more onerous and restrictive (if there can be such a thing) and get it enforcable
far before any FDA time frames. ie., While they may not extend the time limits the FDA imposed
as this would lesson federal regulations, they certainly could shorten them strengthening federal
regulations.

Regards
Mike

 

[Hulamoon]

I suspect it will take some time to organize/focus our efforts. However, writing our representatives is something we can do NOW and continuing going forward. This might always remain the most effective thing we can do. So if you're reading this, click on the link that will take you to another ECF thread for instructions.

H.R.2058 - FDA Deeming Authority Clarification Act of 2015

Later edit: oops, was responding to Bronze and missed Katya's message. Thanks Katya.

 

[drysprocket]

OK, sure... but until you fill us in, what else do we have to discuss?

I've been thinking about this a lot today. We're all still processing...and it's really frustrating knowing that everything is being handled behind the scenes. Aside from all of the reaching out to our local reps, it seems like we should be doing more. The 2 things I'm not seeing much about:

1) Raising money. We have to do this on a massive scale...and I'm kind surprised that this isn't being discussed. I have no doubt that it is behind the scenes, but this should probably be step #1 in my view. I just can't think of anything else that is worth a damn compared to this. Except maybe:

2) Organizing everyone in the industry. I'm not sure how this is going to be done, but it needs to be accomplished fast. When these orgs finally release an action plan about raising that money and advocacy...I really hope the coordination is across the board. Not sure how to herd these cats, but we need a leader right now. And whoever that is better cowboy the eff up and do it.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Has anyone else tweeted and got a comment back ?
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) | Twitter

20 tweets. Zero response.

 

[Sir Kadly]

I admire your passion but it's a shot in the dark.unfortunitly only congress has the power to fix this . I don't believe it will happen not in a election year there are too many seats up for grabs this November they are not going to do anything to jeopardize that.


Peace

Actually I'm counting on the fact that it is an election year to help us in a way. The Cole amendment made it out of committee and will come up for a full vote. Being an election year, no one will want to mess with the appropriations bill, so it has a better chance of passing as is than in a non election year. If we get lucky and it makes it to Obama's desk (which I think there is a reasonable chance) he won't dare veto the bill, because it could create a budget nightmare that might cost Dems votes. The safest move in this election year, for all involved, is to pass the appropriations bills and move on regardless of what amendments are attached.

 

[mcol]

20 tweets. Zero response.

Not sure how many tweets I tweeted to both Trump and Carson, but zero response.
There are also a few more people in his camp I could start working on.