Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[The Ocelot]

Can't you play proper party games like twister or are we all too old?

T

I sometimes manage to play Twisted.

 

[The Ocelot]

I'd be more impressed if the individual writing that had a professional medical background. The author has a degree in International Relations. Hardly something I'd be willing to hitch my wagon to.

I meant for background information.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

God no! Everyone that goes into office gets gray half way through their first term. No Thank You.

That's what hair dye is for

Cheers,
Steve

 

[nicnik]

Unfortunately, outside of their specific committee assignments, and pet issues many of our lawmakers ARE ignorant of the issues that they're voting on. That's one of the reasons that lobbying, and special interest groups have the influence they do in the legislative process.

And good reason for them to actually listen to what their constituents have to say when they write to them, and not be so dismissive with their canned responses.

 

[DC2]

Thanks for pointing these out. Although not contradictory the sure would sew seeds of confusion.
In one part the state that juice with out nicotine doesn't far under the scope of the regulations. The other statement is their go around to get most if not all zero nicotine juice under regulatory control because the are sole arbitrators of what would be reasonably be expected.

This should help clarify things...

One last thought.. and I may be reading into this a little too much but by Jan 2018, all labels will be required to read,“WARNING: This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.”, if the product has nicotine or “This product is made from tobacco.”, if it contains no nicotine.. Makes me think that since flavors can't be regulated yet, that this labeling requirement is pre-planning for a potential tobacco and menthol flavors only future..

 

[The Ocelot]

I have some cotton I bought for making wicks. Shortly after, I bought some organic cotton to use, instead.

It's very complicated to try and figure out how I might be allowed to use that first box of cotton I bought. Is it still a tobacco product, now that its intended use has changed? Once it becomes illegal for me to use for vaping, can I still use it for other things? Can I give it away to someone who doesn't vape, and therefore would have no vaping intended use? If not, I'll recycle the box, but is the cotton condemned to the landfill?

You could stick it in your ear.

 

[Desert Fox]

I'm really disappointed that so many members have a defeatist attitude after browsing through the first 50 pages of this thread, I don't know if the attitude has changed in the last 50 pages or so.

Anyways, I have a personal story to tell, in early 2014, many of the Democrat politicians of the state of California introduced SCA-5, a bill to reintroduced the use of race in admissions to California universities and at the workplace. SCA-5 would reintroduce racial quotas again in the public sector. Many academic studies have concluded that the most discriminated and affected group are Asians (orientals to those in the UK), not whites as widely believed. Long story short, the Asians across the USA, specifically in the state of California made their voices heard at town hall meetings, writing to politicians, signing petitions, and also threatening that they'll tell relatives, friends, and others back in Asia not to do business in California, visiting, or sending their kids overseas to attend any California university, since a good portion of the UCs income are from foreign Asian students. What happened? SCA-5 was pulled back. I'm proud to say that I took part in the fight. I have two little girls, although both won't go to college in a decade or so, I was worried about their future. I had to be proactive and protect them. Remember, Asians are only 5% of the US population. We had to fight against the white liberals, Latinos, and African-Americans that make up more than 50% of the US population, basically the 3 biggest proponents of using race as a criterion for being accepted into colleges and at the workplace.

If I or many people had a defeatist attitude towards SCA-5, more than likely racial quotas would have been implemented again in California. I just did a quick google search and it says that 10% of American adults now vape. That number is 2x larger than the Asian population in the USA, which defeated that bill. What this means is that the vaper population should have more money, clout, numbers and yes, power to combat the regulations. Vapers can do something about it or just accept defeat. It's up to you.

 

[The Ocelot]

Thanks for pointing these out. Although not contradictory the sure would sew seeds of confusion.
In one part the state that juice with out nicotine doesn't far under the scope of the regulations.
the other statement is their go around to get most if not all zero nicotine juice under regulatory
control because the are sole arbitrators of what would be reasonably be expected.

If you are selling nic base and zero nic base one could reasonably assume the customer
would buy both and mix them himself avoiding the regulatory burden other wise imposed
by buying pre-nic'ed base. so you only sell one or the other to a particular customer.
But wait,there's more. What kind of weirdo would buy just nic base? that stuff is unvapeable.
Two customers must be colluding to avoid buying juice and nic thus circumventing the FDA's
ability to regulate and control the market. Well i guess no one can sell nic base because the
only purpose is to avoid regulatory authority even though the nic base is under regulatory
control. Well ok, I'll just sell zero nic base and no nic base sales. I still have all of my pre nic'ed
juices that haven't been taxed to kingdom come and the sales are good enough,imight be ok after
all. Then your first customer walks back in and buys 60 ml of zero nic base and 60 liters
of 24 mg per ml base and he uses a tootle puffer. The FDA guy says,"Hmmmm?)

Remember as per the regs the FDA has reserved the right to change or modify or
add to them as they deem necessary to accomplish their task to put these tobacco products
under their regulatory control.
Regards
Mike

Conspiracy often carries a greater penalty than the actual crime.

 

[skoony]

I have seen this term ANTZ several times over the last few day, and I am unfamiliar. Is it a reference to the underlying message of the film by the same name, or does it mean something different?

In defense of vaping the issue of the harm smoking causes is often used to
demonstrate the safety of vaping compared to smoking. This is fine if the
comparisons are believed to be factual. One recent long term study and possibly
two studies have indicated that the issue of second hand smoke has been greatly
exaggerated to monumental proportions at best or a down right fabrication at worst.
A person living with a heavy smoker for thirty years may have an slightly elevated
risk of getting a smoking related disease. The margin of error for this study was +
or - 3% ergo, they had zero chance or at most a three percent chance of becoming ill.
Thats just becoming affect by some of the many forms of illness attributed to second
hand smoke not,having only the severest forms and croaking imminently.

Many including my self believe that smoking is harmful but not has harmful as portrayed
as it affects the smoker and darn well as it is portrayed affecting non-smokers.
The later part is what got us kicked to the curb. Many like myself feel just because
our opponents lie through there teeth we should not necessarily do it also.
This documentary is very important being the first of it's kind and should not rely
on controversial and scientifically contradictory findings. We have enough good science
to prove our points. We do not have to lie. Maybe later to get our message through.
Just not now.

Mike

 

[The Ocelot]

Why not let's go all the way...

Your fingers are a tobacco product for getting you to the website.
Your brain is a tobacco product for even thinking of it in the first place.

I mean, seriously, this is just downright scary.
It's as if they've lost their mind, and no one but us cares.

Your brain is a tobacco product if it has nicotine in it.

 

[coldgin96]

this is what’s going to happen. Best case scenario.
The amendment to change the deeming date that is in the 2017 agriculture appropriations bill will pass.
The FDA will begin to regulate everything but the equivalence date change will enable the industry to survive to be a cash cow. They will tax the crap out of everything and vaping will become much more expensive. Vapors will not go back to smoking in mass and the giant black market that 2007 equivalence creates serves no one except BT. Making vaping hardware and liquid illegal would only increase its popularity among the youth and the loss of tax revenue and potential tax revenue would be too much.
If they change the date via a spending bill amendment all the politicians win.
The republicans get to save an industry and the dems get to demonize an industry that actually continues to exist for the purpose of taxation and demonization. Even the FDA wins – what’s the fun in regulating an industry that doesn’t exist?
Our saviors in government can really only win in the long run if they have an industry to regulate.
I’m not going to panic until the Cole amendment is stripped from the Agriculture Funding Bill.

"I’m not going to panic until the Cole amendment is stripped from the Agriculture Funding Bill."

Bravo! That's where the wife and I are at. Doing the research, discussing it. We already have the ProVari's that will last 40 years (6 of them, two more to purchase, you know on average each will last at least 5 years). Jackie rebuilds with a K-4, we have nine Kabuki's and 50 packs of coils. I figure I need another 250 packs. As far as the juice, we have a MT freezer. As stated, we are waiting to panic and hopefully we are not to late when we do. If so, I am almost confidant in the black market. It's a chess game.

 

[nicnik]

Many like myself feel just because
our opponents lie through there teeth we should not necessarily do it also.
This documentary is very important being the first of it's kind and should not rely
on controversial and scientifically contradictory findings. We have enough good science
to prove our points. We do not have to lie.

Yes. Thanks.

 

[ZeroedIn]

I'd like to note a correction to row 67....

Fecking Dumb Asses and/or Facists Destroying America

 

[bobwho77]

Well, I feel better now. As part of my reaction to the Deeming regulations, I bought my first replaceable battery mod. A Smok XCube II (18650s AREN'T going to go away.)
I'm going to keep up my end of the political fight. I'll be writing more emails, talking to my reps in person, and contributing to whatever legal action funds that get set up.
In the meantime, I'm going to pick up a couple of RBAs and start learning DIY. If I end up needing to go mechanical, I can build one.
I still think that we'll be alright when everything shakes out, but just in case...

 

[The Ocelot]

Careful, you just gave the FDA more to add to their list.

I swear I think they got most of their info on components and parts from the comments we sent in and the surveys we filled out. I, for one, filled out every survey I heard about and now wonder who was really behind some of them. It never occurred to me that when I filled out detailed information on the products I use and vendors I order from it might make them targets.

 

[Robino1]

Careful, you just gave the FDA more to add to their list.

I swear I think they got most of their info on components and parts from the comments we sent in and the surveys we filled out. I, for one, filled out every survey I heard about and now wonder who was really behind some of them. It never occurred to me that when I filled out detailed information on the products I use and vendors I order from it might them targets.

I actually think they got their information from the meetings they 'encouraged'. Everything that we told them we need to help keep us from smoking, is detailed in the document they released as being part of the 'tobacco' product.

 

[Tallif]

My question is, what is stopping the e liquid makers from selling nicotine free flavors? No nicotine no regulation correct or am I missing something on the liquid. There are only like 50 companies that make the 100mg pr ml fluid and most of them are already FDA approved. So you sell your flavors and if somebody wants nicotine you sell them a 6ml bottle of nicotine fluid to mix into the flavors later. Sure it will be taxed to high hell but those of us who have reduced our nicotine levels out it would not bother us.. As for the machines not much we can do there other than they can't control batteries, or wire, or cotton only the first purchase of the RBA and Box or Pen. Somebody help me out if I am wrong.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

I don't want to clutter up this thread but I have been asked about DIY lately by a few people (I've also reached out to someone that had questions). Here's a tip for storing Nic some may find helpful. I break mine down into 60ml Amber Glass bottles with Polycone caps. I then put said bottles into a washed empty 3lb Margarine container for storage in the freezer (each one holds ~500ml). This way I only have one 60ml bottle out and the rest are not opened and closed each time I mix. When it's empty I just take out another one. I've never had a bottle break but I feel like this would contain any mess if the worst was to happen. Also keeps them organized.

PS Mods if you feel this post is inappropriate, please delete it. Just trying to be helpful.

Don't forget to label the container with it's contents

Cheers,
Steve

 

[coldgin96]

It won't hurt. The question is will it help? And reasonable follow up question is, if the likes of you realize it doesn't help, will you be willing to help with the next call to action after realizing your first steps to petition an administration that is responsible for signing FSPTCA into law, didn't result in anything you had hoped for?

I think all of us would like to believe petitions could work, but thus far we haven't had any indication they might.

If I suggested we all pray to Thor for the next 50 days to help us with this mess. And we earnestly do that, but it appears to get worse, would people then listen to my next bright idea for how we can overcome this situation?

Incidentally, I think praying to Thor right now would be more effective than petitioning Obama's WH.

Last night, when I prayed to The One And Only Almighty, I actually prayed that 2058 gets passed. I exclaimed to The Lord that I didn't know if I should be praying for vaping but He told us if we want something, ask...

Whether it's His will or not, maybe it's time we prayed. Can't hurt. He wants us to at least ask, so let's ask.

 

[classwife]

While preparing my vapocalypse stash, I've been making purchases both online and in B&M shops (gotta spread the love). I stopped in a B&M that I've purchased from in the past (before it was taken over by hipster cloud-chasers) to purchase an extra 18650 LG HG2.

Brought the FDA subject up with guy behind the counter that was ringing me up...his response, "Vaping is too big. It's not going anywhere. We're not worried about what they try to do." No CASAA flyers or notices or anything in the shop. I think these guys bother me as much as the anti-vapers.

I have a feeling that many vape shops are going to be in for a huge surprise