I saw where it was determined that any new mixing is new manufacturing. So, only what's been "manufactured" before the August deadline will be allowed, including mixing.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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I would love to see that reference if you find it, dang the one vendor I order from custom mixes all their eliquid per order, no premade, so this really concerns me a lot.
Yes, I'm so confused right now that I think I'm going to cry. I need a drink.
But my favorite comments come from Nate:
"As the law is now written, FDA has the full legal authority to reject a PMTA application by tweeting "lolsux2bu"."
And this one:
"As I said in the other thread, I see the chances of these regulations being enacted as written, ever, as somewhere between slim and none. This is merely a fit of childish pique on the part of the FDA, its manhood still bruised from getting laughed out of Judge Leon's courtroom the first time they tried to unilaterally destroy this product category for no better reason than because they damn well felt like it."
Bravo, Nate! I miss Nate. We used to have great discussions in CA legislative forum...
Please Tell me that this is All Just a Bad Dream.
Please?
It's all just a bad dream, Z... A nightmare, actually!
sooo, you are saying if I buy an ejuice from company x the day before say Aug 7, that on Aug 9 I can no longer buy that ejuice because company x can no longer combined the ingredients?
Please Tell me that this is All Just a Bad Dream.
Please?
I am really praying here he is mistaken, I feel like someone kicked me
seriously my ADV the ONLY flavor I vape consistently for the last 4 going on 5 years comes from gourmet vapers who mixes by the order.
I've read so much the past few days, that I couldn't tell you. But I haven't much doubt that I understand correctly that mixing is now manufacturing. Pretty sure I read that every mixing is new product, even if you've done the same mix before (untested, so how do you know it's exactly the same?). No new products after 8/10 (or 8/8?).I would love to see that reference if you find it, dang the one vendor I order from custom mixes all their eliquid per order, no premade, so this really concerns me a lot.
Did you ask your vendor? I don't see how it can be a new tobacco product if they have been making the same thing for years.
I wasn't around back then, but he's doing really great work commenting on articles all over the place.
I mean... I'm OK. I'm Stocked Up. I was one of those Dooms Day-er's that kinda got Scoffed at as the Sky is Falling.
But Holy Flinkering Snit.
If This is True about Mixed e-Liquids not being able to be Sold after 90 Days because it is a "New Product" (and I'm not sure if a "New Product" couldn't be Legally Interpreted that way), think of the Hundreds of Thousands of Vaper's who Don't Even Know this is Happening?
I talked to a Vaper Tonight. He had No Clue about the FDA. And was only Mildly aware of the CA Leg that had been Passed. When I mentioned "Deeming", he did that thing with his Head when a Dog Hears a Strange Noise.
Actually, it was a generalized question as I make my own. Haven't bought vendor ejuice in years. Just hoping to find something in these regs that have a smidegon of reality or something that could actually be doable.Did you ask your vendor? I don't see how it can be a new tobacco product if they have been making the same thing for years.
I think if I were a maker of drip tips, I'd apply for approval of a few. Say three: red, white and puce. I suppose each would require a separate application. Then I'd "quantify the likelihood that nonsmokers will start using the product" by saying that there is no possible way to quantify it, but I sure hope a lot of them do, as the nonsmokers are likely to be vapers looking for a more colorful drip tip. Black is so boring.
As for the likelihood of former smokers relapsing back to nicotine by use of the product, do you think the FDA would be satisfied if I did a poll of former smokers: "Would these nice drip tips cause you to start vaping?" Or I could tell them that a more likely cause of such a relapse would be anxiety and stress associated with wondering what's the next good product the FDA will decide to regulate out of existence.
Might these drip tips cause users to "progress" to smoking"? That seems unlikely, but the FDA demands proof. I don't suppose I could get away with saying "no," that it wouldn't be progress for vapers to take up smoking. Nah, that would never fly. I'd have to do double-blind, random clinical trials. Give the trial group my nice drip tips and give the control group vape gear with no drip tips, and maybe give a third group cheap black drip tips. And see how many of each group "progressed." Yeah, that should do it.
What is the likelihood that consumers will use the product in conjunction with other tobacco products? Well, if mods and atomizers are tobacco products, I'd have to say the odds are close to 100%. Whatta ya goin to do? Can't lie about it--probably a felony.
What is the likelihood that smokers who start using my drip tips would otherwise have quit smoking? Hummm, that's a hard one. Now, in a world without drip tips I'd have to admit that vaping might be more cumbersome and people might be less motivated to vape and instead say "To hell with it, I'll just go cold turkey." So does this apply to drip tips in general, or mine as compared to others? I'd like to think mine are the most attractive, but it seems unlikely that that would be the determining factor as to whether someone vapes instead of quitting cold turkey (if that's what they mean by "quit smoking"). I might be inclined to say that if you vape you're not smoking. But I don't want to PO the FDA. They might not take my application seriously.
As for the likelihood of former smokers relapsing back to nicotine by use of the product, do you think the FDA would be satisfied if I did a poll of former smokers: "Would these nice drip tips cause you to start vaping?" Or I could tell them that a more likely cause of such a relapse would be anxiety and stress associated with wondering what's the next good product the FDA will decide to regulate out of existence.
Might these drip tips cause users to "progress" to smoking"? That seems unlikely, but the FDA demands proof. I don't suppose I could get away with saying "no," that it wouldn't be progress for vapers to take up smoking. Nah, that would never fly. I'd have to do double-blind, random clinical trials. Give the trial group my nice drip tips and give the control group vape gear with no drip tips, and maybe give a third group cheap black drip tips. And see how many of each group "progressed." Yeah, that should do it.
What is the likelihood that consumers will use the product in conjunction with other tobacco products? Well, if mods and atomizers are tobacco products, I'd have to say the odds are close to 100%. Whatta ya goin to do? Can't lie about it--probably a felony.
What is the likelihood that smokers who start using my drip tips would otherwise have quit smoking? Hummm, that's a hard one. Now, in a world without drip tips I'd have to admit that vaping might be more cumbersome and people might be less motivated to vape and instead say "To hell with it, I'll just go cold turkey." So does this apply to drip tips in general, or mine as compared to others? I'd like to think mine are the most attractive, but it seems unlikely that that would be the determining factor as to whether someone vapes instead of quitting cold turkey (if that's what they mean by "quit smoking"). I might be inclined to say that if you vape you're not smoking. But I don't want to PO the FDA. They might not take my application seriously.
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I think if it had already been mixed in time, it's ok.
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