Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

Endor

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I work in the high risk business lending industry. vape Shops are starting to get blacklisted. Ugh. Not all lenders have sent the update to guidelines but they are trickling in.

At the same time Colorado's dispensaries are slowly getting added to the "ok" list...
I'm seeing more and more of a double-standard between nicotine products and (that stuff), especially in Left-leaning areas like California.

I've posted previously that, during a stint at a company in West LA where I took mass transit to and from work (Metrolink/Red Line Subway/bus), I regularly encountered open use of (stuff) in areas where smoking was heavily prohibited. At least once a week, open use in subway stations. In one case, it was being used on a crowded subway train itself. No repercussions from any use of (stuff) that I saw. Had I lit a cigarette, or used my mod, I'm sure I would have faced immediate prosecution.

I contend that the federal government needs to remove it from the schedule, let the States decide their legalization status, then we need to petition our lawmakers to put it under the control of the FDA in order to protect the children. I'd bet that wouldn't get too far.
 

Lessifer

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There is no reason for this. vape products, today, are still perfectly legal and will be for at least 2 years from now.
They are legal, but in many cc processing terms of service they do not allow transactions involving tobacco products. Especially online.
 

baseballmom

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Oh fda and politicians, I think about the children every day...I have 2, an older teen and a younger son...the younger has spent more years knowing mom as a vaper, yeah with him he doesn't remember the lingering cig odor on mom like my older one even though I smoked outside....I'm sure that aspect was a bit embarrassing for him, I know it was. Older is well aware harm reduction stuff, don't think youngest gets it, nor should he really, he doesnt remember the cig days. I think about them -never meeting my uncle, estranged yes but things could have changed maybe, commit suicide after suffering with pain increasing from lung cancer....I thought of a lot with My oldest, see he needed a sitter for mom and dad to clean up a nasty mess left that cleaning crew didn't take care of. I thought a lot about my kids as my mother was recently biopsied for lung cancer herself, how to break it to them gently if ....luckily not. I told the children's hospital I no longer smoke, I vape when youngest had severe gi virus and had to go because dehydration, they ask if you smoke, when Dr said ejuice dangers potential, told doc about my lock box away from kids and cats ..I also keep many cleaners out of access too, and yeah, when I get in crafty homemade soap making mode, I do in winter outside, when kids at school....lye is quite nasty stuff... My older son, well we have good discussions on vaping, who, what, why, and how, where get money and stuffs, do parents know or not...also cigs(hey, i got an" in "at local store, an older bro who is good informant even though I don't ask, he tends to keep me in the loop anyway since he likes to talk), same with alcohol and alcohol poisoning, yeah we discuss this a lot, some older buds in college now and enough of the parent "endorsed/approved" parties around as is. Personally, I find the drinking a lot scarier - that's just my opinion only here from stories I've heard, crazier than when I was young(!) I'm a parent, I do think of my children and their friends OFTEN, parental responsibility weighs on my mind more than I ever imagined it would before I had kids, even with medications for allergies, asthma, and Adhd(black box warnings)...I won't go back to smoking, I am too far past the desire to, and hope to drop to 1 mg then 0mg maybe if forced, and keeping my mom going as long as she chooses, but preventing this effective cessation product for the children's' sake....this deeming does more than that, it destroys this industry and the potential to get more off cigs... and yeah, some of his friends do illegal stuffs already...I don't see a resulting black market stopping them honestly, some it'll just fuel their "bad a##" reps more....great(sarcasm!)-seriously some seem to thrive on the b.a. rep and the benefits they get from it...
The more I mull it over, the more frustrated, angry, etc I get...makes no sense, it's about money...sorry had to rant with all the children talk and being a parent...both of my boys were influences to quit cigs(and the fact I was getting sick of the toll It was taking on me ), vaping as harm reduction has been most effective for me-I tried gum, I tried patches, cold turkey when pregnant -yes That too, their grandmother, some baseball team parents/friends, and my co-workers....so I think of the kiddos frequently, I think of parents who currently smoke breaking the cig cycle someday successfully, I think of parenting and responsibility- being aware and involved, I think of teaching people with kids(and even pets, well since job related for me) how to use safety and sense....
 

sonicdsl

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I work in the high risk business lending industry. Vape Shops are starting to get blacklisted. Ugh. Not all lenders have sent the update to guidelines but they are trickling in.

At the same time Colorado's dispensaries are slowly getting added to the "ok" list...
Uw1eWFW.gif
 

SeniorBoy

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There was a discussion in the CASAA FB group about cc processors dropping vape shops, both b&m and online.

I actually saw this happen in the early 90s. Briefly, I owned and managed a very busy Forum devoted to "Affiliate Programs". A sometimes volatile mix of Webmasters and Affiliate Company's making money from advertising programs by "merchants". Two of which I remember: Acid Berry Weight Loss Thingy and the Fortune Telling service. Although I would never ever sell an advert to any one involved in this sector and told them to get lost and bared them from my Forum on numerous occassions, after the FTC lowered the boom on these two segments a couple of things happened. CC processors and banks shut them down like a hot knife through butter. The same action occurred by Affiliate Networks who would no longer run their banners/txt links in their network of websites. Finito! I'm a little fuzzy on this but as I recall shortly after this PayPal slammed the door and so did YouTube. Think "toxic"

Since the final rule contains "FTC" along with all the other desk killer stuff I would call this an area of concern and hopefully my thoughts have provided a little historical context. I'm not saying it's going to happen. Only offering my battle scar experiences. :)

Stay Strong! Fight!
 

bobwho77

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Just saw an itaste listed as an electronic charger. Let the games begin!

Their MVP series has a USB output port on the bottom that can be used to charge another electronic device. I have an MVP 20W, and an MVP 3.0 Pro. They're great vapes, and practically bullet proof
 
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Jalcide

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Does anyone know if the FDA is planning to release key parts of its criteria for PMTA acceptance. E.g., the list of undesirable components tested for in the aerosol and pass threshold amounts for each one?

Or, is it going to remain a complete secret so that manufactures that submit their millions have no idea if it's going to pass muster?
 
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bobwho77

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This is some of the unbelievable BS that is going around. This was in response to my personal vaping story. Just another sheep. But this is what people really think.

They are taking it off the market because it's killing people faster than cig. Smoking is a hand jester habit find something else to do with your hands. After I quit I reached for them so many times and would laugh at myself and say oh yea. This vap is as harmful to those around you as the cig were for your best health try this please.

I've seen LOTS of those. The FDA, BT/BP, and the ANTZ have manufactured enough support for this, with their scary stories, and junk studys to make this seem reasonable to non-vapers. I think their release timing was forced though. Last year's report from PHE, the reports from RCP, and the French public health agency, along with last night's premier of A Billion Lives, are starting to sway public opinion. They had to get these out, before too many people started asking "Why?"
 

zoiDman

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Why is that?

Because it is Hard to find Balanced Articles that are Relatively Devoid of Emotional Rhetoric on the subject of e-Cigarettes. Also Hard to Find articles that include Links to Referenced Sources.
 

Lessifer

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Does anyone know if the FDA is planning to release key parts of its criteria for PMTA acceptance. E.g., the list of undesirable components tested for in the aerosol and pass threshold amounts for each one?

Or, is it going to remain a complete secret so that manufactures that submit their millions have no idea if it's going to pass muster?
I can't say for sure if they're going to release more guidance, but I wouldn't count on it. They do encourage open communication with them early and often in the PMTA process though.

I think that translates to "We don't actually know what would be acceptable, so someone send us something and we'll let you know."
 

Bronze

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Because it is Hard to find Balanced Articles that are Relatively Devoid of Emotional Rhetoric on the subject of e-Cigarettes. Also Hard to Find articles that include Links to Referenced Sources.
Maybe I missed something. The article appeared to be pro-vaping to me.
 

Endor

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Why is that?
I have found that Forbes tends to present a more balanced reporting on e-cigarettes, even leaning more positively towards it....especially the FDA reglulations. It's not universally pro-vaping, but certainly more than the likes of the NY or LA Times and left-leaning online news feeds.
 

SeniorBoy

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Does anyone know if the FDA is planning to release key parts of its criteria for PMTA acceptance. E.g., the list of undesirable components tested for in the aerosol and pass threshold amounts for each one?

Or, is it going to remain a complete secret so that manufactures that submit their millions have no idea if it's going to pass muster?

This should get you started and this list is contained in the Draft Guidance on PMTA

FDA recommends that you consider the following constituents28 for analysis in e-liquids and 1026 aerosols, as appropriate, for your product: 1027
1028
• Acetaldehyde 1029
• Acetyl Propionyl (also known as 2,3-pentanedione) 1030
• Acrolein 1031
• Acrylonitrile 1032
• 4-Aminobiphenyl 1033
• 1-Aminonaphthalene 1034
• 2-Aminonaphthalene 1035
• Ammonia 1036
• Anabasine 1037
• Benzene 1038
• Benzo[a]pyrene 1039
• 1,3-Butadiene
• Chromium 1042
• Crotonaldehyde 1043
• Diacetyl 1044
• Diethylene glycol 1045
• Ethylene glycol 1046
• Formaldehyde 1047
• Glycerol 1048
• Isoprene 1049
• Lead 1050
• Menthol 1051
• Nickel 1052
• Nicotine, including total nicotine and unprotonated nicotine 1053
• NNK (4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone) 1054
• NNN (N-nitrosonornicotine) 1055
• Propylene glycol 1056
• Toluene 1057
• Other constituents, as appropriate

HTH
:)
 

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