....and I stopped needing to crawl around under my desk before going to bed to make sure I hadn't dropped any hot ash! - big plus!
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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Nice ideas, not without risks though :
Riding too hard on the quit the stinkies horse, FDA will do an about face and say :
"See?! We been telling you all along that these are cessation devices and need to be regulated as pharmaceutical products."
Between a rock (BT) and a hard place (BP), seems they're divying up the vapers' hide already.
Too bad for them we ain't done in yet
You just fighting for profits, we're fighting for our lives - literally.
Riding too hard on the quit the stinkies horse, FDA will do an about face and say :
"See?! We been telling you all along that these are cessation devices and need to be regulated as pharmaceutical products."
Between a rock (BT) and a hard place (BP), seems they're divying up the vapers' hide already.
Too bad for them we ain't done in yet
You just fighting for profits, we're fighting for our lives - literally.
I'll take it any way I can get it.
And that is NOT the first time I've uttered THOSE words in this life of mine.
A manufacturer couldn't make that claim about their specific product. I think a non-profit organization making them about vaping in general probably could. (Especially if the data/case studies back them up.)
I don't mention any brand names, and they don't have to even show a device, just the people.
The point is to change the way vaping is seen by Joe, and Jane Nonvaper. Like it or not WE have an image problem. The nonvaping public sees vapers as cloud chasing hipsters, and vape conventions featuring semi-nude women more than any of the products. (Forget reality for now. We're talking about perceptions) When they hear a story about a battery exploding on TV, their response is "Those things are dangerous. They need to get rid of them."
People see commercials for Blu, or Vuse, or Mark Ten, and they see out of context headlines "Teen ecig use Skyrocketing" and they think "Those greedy tobacco companies are at it again. We have to stop them before they hook another generation of kids."
WE know that that isn't the reality of the vaping community, but the general public doesn't.
The reason the FDA has been able to get the Deeming regulations through the way they are, is because they know that the majority of the people will say "Well, that sounds reasonable. It's about time they did something"
Until we start changing those perceptions, we're going to have approximately zero traction politically, and our only recourse will be through the courts.
I'll go back to my car analogy from upthread. We need to change the face of vaping from street racing punks, and Autorama style car shows, to the millions of people who drive Chevys, and Fords to work every day.
Great commentary from Shaun Casey from Flavourart NA about an hour into the show. His analysis and experience of 20 years dealing with the EPA is enlightening.
Life After Deeming
Life After Deeming
We have all been so gung-ho about changing the grandfather date (not saying that is a bad thing) when, in my opinion, we should have been fighting tooth and nail to keep these life saving devices from being deemed tobacco products to begin with. The only way they can control this technology is by locking it in with the tobacco act of 2007.
I know there are those that know a lot more than I do are saying that fight would have been too hard so instead are putting all their energy into fighting to have the date changed. And now I am seeing division between those that should now be coming together.
We seem to be our own worst enemy.
When I first posted this link sign the petition we were at 53,436 supporters. We are now at 55,217 so thankfully some are listening. I know all of y'all are and I want to say THANK YOU. If you are someone new to this thread and are just now seeing this, Please, take a moment to sign and SHARE the link.
And while you are at it you may want to watch this short video that lets you know exactly what we are up against.
Sorry Lessifer, I just can't help myself
I know there are those that know a lot more than I do are saying that fight would have been too hard so instead are putting all their energy into fighting to have the date changed. And now I am seeing division between those that should now be coming together.
We seem to be our own worst enemy. When I first posted this link sign the petition we were at 53,436 supporters. We are now at 55,217 so thankfully some are listening. I know all of y'all are and I want to say THANK YOU. If you are someone new to this thread and are just now seeing this, Please, take a moment to sign and SHARE the link.
And while you are at it you may want to watch this short video that lets you know exactly what we are up against.
Sorry Lessifer, I just can't help myself
Mostly it is all light related: flashlights, headlamps, spotlights, etc... but no, 18350s, 490s and the rest of the sizes were around well before they started making their way into mods. You should head over to the CandlePower forums and look around. It's where a lot of early vapers learned about li-ions, and you thought we're dedicated to our hobby?
I have a couple. Thrunite Mini TN30 XPL CW and an Imalent DDT40. The Thrunite pulls about 5-6 amps maybe more on high, the Imalent, I'm not sure about the amp draw but I'll bet its probably more.
One operates in parallel the other in series. Both use 4x18650s or the Imalent can use 8XCR132A's. Neither can take the paint off of a vehicle, but I wouldn't advise looking directly into them on high.
Nice ideas, not without risks though :
Riding too hard on the quit the stinkies horse, FDA will do an about face and say :
"See?! We been telling you all along that these are cessation devices and need to be regulated as pharmaceutical products."
Between a rock (BT) and a hard place (BP), seems they're divying up the vapers' hide already.
Too bad for them we ain't done in yet
You just fighting for profits, we're fighting for our lives - literally.
Playing nice and by the 'rules' has gotten us absolutely nowhere.
The risk factor has been taken away from us. There is no more risk. The deeming has been Done. That's it. They are set to take affect in the timeline that has been set forth here in this thread. There is no more negotiation.
As far as calling these a cessation product, same rules have always been in place. Vendors Can Not state this.
WE CAN!
Consumers can make all the claims they want, manufacturers cannot.
Op-eds in the newspapers R.E. FDA Deeming will get some face time and generate non-vaping community interaction. minimal costs as well.
Readily admitting that I'm not adept at social media, I'm trying to figure out where, publicly, to post comments on deeming. I thought I read that FDA had an interactive site, somewhere, but I can't find it. Anyone?
I have to warn you, it looks like a bot is answering questions by searching key words. Sometimes the answers that are coming from the "FDA" don't quite address the question asked. Also, I have not seen a reply from, said bot, to a question that is embedded in a reply to someone's comment.
Same 'bot' seems to be used on Twitter too.
So the FDA is giving the 'illusion' that it is concerned with our questions...... Yeah, and I have a waterfall in the desert for sale. Comes with snow on demand.
Or it's some poor intern with a list of copy / paste answers. Imagine that as a soul destroying job, for many reasons.
*even if it's a bot, I'm sure it is an unhappy bot.
Attachments
Paper was invented before cigarettes. The paper used to make a cigarette is regulated by the FDA.
I have heard the phrase wild,Wild,West used many times to describe the vaping industry.
The only thing that was ever Wild,Wild,West about it is all the Free Range Money running
across the fruited plains.
The FDA has already had discussions concerning references from non-industry sources
including non profit, and other sources,including forums. I do not know the results of
these discussions but, rest assured they are being looked at at best or will be squashed
if the FDA deems it necessary to do so at worst. This issue was discussed in the past
here. Many of us worried what would happen to ECR if this came about or if advertising
was eliminated.
Regards
Mike
Kinda like the canned replies we get from our messages to, what are supposed to be, our representatives.
Ok, first... this is not how I pictured Lessifer in real life.... I guess the Freudian avatar and all....Sorry Lessifer, I just can't help myself
Second, an outstanding job of summing up exactly what is going on. Really well done, Lessifer, congrats.
EDIT: I guess I don't look like John Hamm/Don Draper either....
I feel bad for the vendors, manufacturers, etc. This is extremely unfair to them - they have businesses they need to support families, etc. We all know there is NO WAY the FDA will stop us, the consumer. I hope all of the vaping industry stands strong together and fights this tooth and nail. But they have to be united on all fronts.
Playing nice and by the 'rules' has gotten us absolutely nowhere.
The risk factor has been taken away from us. There is no more risk. The deeming has been Done. That's it. They are set to take affect in the timeline that has been set forth here in this thread. There is no more negotiation.
As far as calling these a cessation product, same rules have always been in place. Vendors Can Not state this.
WE CAN!
I don't have the $, or the gear to make something like this work by myself, but I'd be happy to kick some ideas around with people who DID.
Let's see what we can come up with.
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