Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Katya]

Made me so upset I ended up tracking down the twitter handle for the state senator that submitted the bill. Informed him that vapers are turning into one issue voters with long memories. If he wanted to confirm that, all he had to do was contact AG Zoeller from Indiana who came in 3rd for the House seat he was running for.

Good for you! We went through similar hearings in Sacramento--many times. It was so hard to watch.

 

[Kent C]

So what does this mean? We use the race, anti-military, and homophobic cards to say that the anti-vaping politicians don't care about those groups.

Plus, upwards of 30% of low-income people smoke and vape or may eventually vape. The so called 'little guy' that certain politicians claim to care about.

 

[Kent C]

I'm in tears. When I got a ProVari I knew I had found the device that would keep me off of cigarettes forever. It may not be the device for everyone, but it is for me.

This is the key hedge against small businesses by the FDA:
“Most vape businesses like ProVape don’t have the means or wherewithal to put our products through this cost-prohibitive process and with no guarantee it would get approved.”

How many can even take that chance if they even could come up with the money??? It would be better off, if they had to pay that money to the FDA - at least, then the FDA would have a profit incentive ... but "profit" is a dirty word to them and their ilk.

How many times have you heard a politician or some "public servant" when they were getting grief from the citizens, something like: "I could be doing well in the private sector but I've decided to dedicate myself to public service"

Here's the reality - The private entrepreneur doesn't have (or shouldn't have) tax money to prop up their business and as is usual in gov't, a big debt - whether it is a the local school level to the Federal level where they are borrowing funds to continue their departments existence.

IF the "public servant" would run a business like they run their department (whatever it is), they'd be bankrupt in a month. So don't fall for this common 'plea' from your public servants or politicians - they have a way too big estimation of their ability and many of them are failed business people. Either that or they went directly from 4 to 8 years of college to a gov't job without any experience in business at all.

 

[bobwho77]

That would be funny as hell if it weren't too close to truth.
These regs MIGHT get pulled back, because they are SO incredibly over-reaching. But I agree, we aren't seeing what I'd consider a response that's powerful enough to be effective. It seems almost as it the organized groups are hinting that they have a plan - but if there's some secret plan, you're going to need MASSIVE SUPPORT and that means publicizing it now.

The people who like these regs and want them to stand?
They DO POLITICS ALL DAY LONG. Year after year. They have tested and professional (not ethical - but professional) methods of influencing legislation. They win in court against NATIONS and intimidate government bodies.

Someone needs to pay what it takes to play the Billion Lives movie in DC.
Someone needs to start "viral" campaigns disseminating the truth about the regs - ONE message passed around by a million people. We need POSITIVE vaping stories to dominate the news for a change.
I don't really know what else could win except massive public outcry, or dumb luck being tacked onto an Agriculture bill. Tobacco has billions of dollars at stake - do you think they're going to let that happen?

That's the war we should have been fighting all along.
The "Not Blowing Smoke" videos should have been seeing air time in every major media market, along with other 30-60 second spots featuring "everyday" vapers, and promoting vaping as a SAFER alternative to cigarettes. We NEVER really rose to fight the PR front in this war. We should have. We still need to.

 

[bobwho77]

Those would be some mighty difficult 180s. The damage already done by them has caused plenty of future deaths and destruction of lives, and their despicable dishonesty in their mission is well documented, even in just the articles I've saved.

Anti-vaping kills.

BTs legacy of "unethical" behavior is part of the battle that vaping now has to fight in order to get more of the public on our side.
I've looked at the comment sections of quite a few of the mainstream vaping articles, and a large number of people are saying "Big Tobacco lied about cigarettes, so they're probably lieing about vaping, too."
Being linked to BT in the public eye isn't doing us ANY favors. They don't (or won't) see the large number of small, ethically run, businesses that have actually made vaping what it is, and they assume that vaping companies are acting like the tobacco companies used to.

 

[Ca Ike]

We need to strike the fear of losing an election, possibly even the presidency into the hearts of the democrats.

I've been expressing my intentions to vote against my party if I don't start seeing some support. Of course I'm a drop in the bucket in CA, but I've gotten a few likes on my Facebook comments...

I've been there for years now les. I've voted against incumbents and against dems for the last 4 elections. I sent a letter to the head of the party and most of the reps/senators telling them I am only staying dem this time to vote against Hilary in the primary. I will be going non partisan/ independent from now on.

 

[440BB]

I don't think partisan bickering will help us between now and August 8. It's too bad this thread has derailed into that. I find it tiresome to wade through that stuff trying to find useful updates and ideas.

We need positive PR about vaping and legal action to keep it intact, not a bunch of us sitting on our asses pushing our political agenda. I'm glad there are some people and companies that are challenging these regs in a productive way.

 

[mudram99]

Again, the Republicans control the Senate - a straight up party vote would win in the Senate. What wouldn't win there, is overriding a presidential veto.

You said it all right there, when it falls on that desk all bets are off.

 

[mudram99]

That would be funny as hell if it weren't too close to truth.
These regs MIGHT get pulled back, because they are SO incredibly over-reaching. But I agree, we aren't seeing what I'd consider a response that's powerful enough to be effective. It seems almost as it the organized groups are hinting that they have a plan - but if there's some secret plan, you're going to need MASSIVE SUPPORT and that means publicizing it now.

The people who like these regs and want them to stand?
They DO POLITICS ALL DAY LONG. Year after year. They have tested and professional (not ethical - but professional) methods of influencing legislation. They win in court against NATIONS and intimidate government bodies.

Someone needs to pay what it takes to play the Billion Lives movie in DC.
Someone needs to start "viral" campaigns disseminating the truth about the regs - ONE message passed around by a million people. We need POSITIVE vaping stories to dominate the news for a change.
I don't really know what else could win except massive public outcry, or dumb luck being tacked onto an Agriculture bill. Tobacco has billions of dollars at stake - do you think they're going to let that happen?

Ahhh the ole Maxwell Smart negotiating tactic of asking for far more than you actually want so you can appear accommodating when you scale back to what it was you were really after all along.

 

[mudram99]

I think most of them are focused on how many votes they'd lose, and even more how much funding they'd lose.

I am scared the funding is the bigger issue! Believe it or not, votes can be bought!

 

[mudram99]

this is all so surreal ... do they think people will forget today's Vape devices existed?

some of these proven cigarette killers will still be working in 20 years.

I for one have started being ALOT less chalant about the care of my current devices!

 

[mudram99]

The regs are written for the big guys with big money. That includes BP, who's been able to go about its messing with our rights and health, more silently and behind the scenes than BT. And they very well, might have more success in capturing the market.

That is, if everything goes as planned for the FDA. I sure hope it doesn't even come close.

Always have, always will, until WE the people get sick and tired of it!

 

[mudram99]

We had plenty of warning, years worth, but I don't think anyone thought it would be this bad or wanted to believe it could ever be this bad. I am glad for the optimist in this whole mess, but, I am not one of them. I don't see this having a positive outcome for vapers or the independent industry, I would be happy to be wrong though.

You are right, please forgive me for sitting happily on my bum vaping away

 

[mudram99]

I've been there for years now les. I've voted against incumbents and against dems for the last 4 elections. I sent a letter to the head of the party and most of the reps/senators telling them I am only staying dem this time to vote against Hilary in the primary. I will be going non partisan/ independent from now on.

If we could all just look at issues logically instead of muleheadedly pulling the lever based on that dang little single letter assigned to each politicians name!

 

[mudram99]

And I apologize for the the thread parade above, I hate it when I get up before the rest of youse guies. It's usually impossible to post in here even close to the replied to post due to so many posters offerings!

 

[bobwho77]

I don't think partisan bickering will help us between now and August 8. It's too bad this thread has derailed into that. I find it tiresome to wade through that stuff trying to find useful updates and ideas.

We need positive PR about vaping and legal action to keep it intact, not a bunch of us sitting on our asses pushing our political agenda. I'm glad there are some people and companies that are challenging these regs in a productive way.

THANK YOU!
I post a similar comment on almost every thread I see taking that turn. If we allow this to become a partisan issue EITHER way, we get marginalized, and ignored by BOTH sides of the aisle. On the "pro" side we become "automatic" votes that they can count on without really doing anything. On the "anti side, we get" Oh, it's THEM again. They aren't going to vote for me anyway. Why should I bother listening?"
With a year, or two (that we don't really have) of PR work, and a CONCENTRATED lobbying effort, we MIGHT get something through Congress. I'm not saying that we should ignore that avenue. Public opinion, and political action need to be part of the overall strategy.
Our best recourse for any IMMEDIATE relief however, is through the courts. I don't have MUCH $ to throw at any kind of a legal action fund, but I plan on doing what I can. So far, though, I'm not seeing anything on that front.

 

[Wing]

So... does anyone know how this ruling will affect "head shops" selling "for tobacco use only" paraphernalia?

 

[Myrany]

What I find sad is that we as Vapers never pulled together before things got this bad. Now the fight is 100 times harder and we are still not pulling together. If we cannot set aside our own petty squabbles then this fight is lost before it begins.

 

[SeniorBoy]

This is the key hedge against small businesses by the FDA:
“Most vape businesses like ProVape don’t have the means or wherewithal to put our products through this cost-prohibitive process and with no guarantee it would get approved.”

How many can even take that chance if they even could come up with the money??? It would be better off, if they had to pay that money to the FDA - at least, then the FDA would have a profit incentive ... but "profit" is a dirty word to them and their ilk.

How many times have you heard a politician or some "public servant" when they were getting grief from the citizens, something like: "I could be doing well in the private sector but I've decided to dedicate myself to public service"

Here's the reality - The private entrepreneur doesn't have (or shouldn't have) tax money to prop up their business and as is usual in gov't, a big debt - whether it is a the local school level to the Federal level where they are borrowing funds to continue their departments existence.

IF the "public servant" would run a business like they run their department (whatever it is), they'd be bankrupt in a month. So don't fall for this common 'plea' from your public servants or politicians - they have a way too big estimation of their ability and many of them are failed business people. Either that or they went directly from 4 to 8 years of college to a gov't job without any experience in business at all.

Exactly! I'm only aware of exactly one PMTA that has ever been approved which reinforces the "... no guarantee..." point you make. That's 100K pages from Swedish Match. Mike covered this issue in 2015.

I admire the candor of the ProVape Blog post. Direct quotes from one of the owners. It should help some folks understand the gravity of these issues. And yes, my 2.5 is still running perfectly after almost 3 years. Please stock up!

/sigh
/sad

Stay Strong! Fight!

 

[rosesense]

It is scary to me that the average person on the street knows nothing about this and has an 'ok, whatever' attitude about it when they are told. That is my concern about PR. I am not a big social media type and rarely even go on FB, until this mess anyway. I have posted vids, including Lessifer's and have been telling my family/friends/vapers about this regulation. I have not received one like, one comment, nada on any of the deeming regs things I posted but I get comments on trivial stuff and pics of my flowers. Even from my friends/family and this is scary.